New Bafang Crank-Drives

[finnen]

I forgot to say, I did have one issue. The bafang doesn't fit the babboe curve straight away. I had to take the angle grinder to a tab under the bottom braket. A little unnerving to do on a brand new 1700 euro bike, but what to do

 

[deepfraught]

jkbrigman wrote:

One thing to know about the BBS02: There have been folks using it who indicate it has an odd problem when shifting, that you have to cut power and wait a split second before you shift. There are various threads here on E-S that talk about this and there is information and a diagram for a switch you can add that helps this issue.

I saw somewhere on the forum where a slight nudge backwards on the pedals when you stop pedaling to shift will also shut off the BBS02 motor, i.e. cancel the PAS overrun. I tried this and it works great. No need to wait to shift or install special switches, etc.

Someone posted that back-pedal to cut power tip early on, I was very grateful. Cuts the power instantly (or as instantly as needed for human gear change and resuming forward pedalling).
I've got an Alfine 8 Bosch Performance Line bike now and thought it funny for this OEM to have not dealt with unloading for shifts.
Luckily the back-pedal works the same for the Bosch instantly cutting power just as it did for the BBS02. First test ride video no missed shifts.

 

[WoodlandHills]

I forgot to say, I did have one issue. The bafang doesn't fit the babboe curve straight away. I had to take the angle grinder to a tab under the bottom braket. A little unnerving to do on a brand new 1700 euro bike, but what to do

I had to grind away part of a lug on the BBSHD to get it to rotate fully up against the downtube on my bike. I didn't like doing that either but it worked and it helped increase ground clearance. Besides looking better with the Bafang label horizontal instead of sloping downwards it also might make the drive less conspicous by hiding it behind my feet!

 

[rurbano]

Happy new year for everyone!!!

Hi all, this is my first post ever.
After reading a lot on this forum I think I need some advice ;I’ve tried to be as simple as possible...

Actual system weight_ 110 kg (243 lb) (rider + bicycle with no motor nor battery)
Bicycle: hardtail Scott gearing42-32-22) x (32-28-24-21-18-15-13-11)
Daily commuting: 2 x 14km (2 x 8,8 miles) with average 2% steep and 12% max, mainly cycle paths, asphalt and some off road but no single trails.
Confortable cadence: 60-75 RPM
Desired speed: average 20-30 km/h (12,5-19 mph) max: 45 km/h (28mph)
Confortable pedal power: 100w – 150w;


I was thinking of buying one of these:

Option A:
BBS02; 500W, 36V, 25A
Li- ion 36V - 12Ah

Option B:
BBS02: 500W, 48V; 18 A
Li- ion 48V – 10Ah

Option C:
BBS02: 750W; 48V; 25A
Li- ion 48V – 10Ah

Questions:
1 – Will they all do the job?
2 - Which system is more reliable?
3 – Which system is more energy efficient?
4 – Winch one has the cheapest Wh?
5 - Wich chainring 42,44, 46 or 48?
6 - Are there any other options/suggestions?

Thank you in advance for your attention.

Best regards

Rui

 

[WoodlandHills]

Buy as much power and battery as you can afford..... You can always go light on the throttle on a higher v system. If it is cheaper, buy the 36v BBS02 and just reprogram for 48 or 52 then put the leftover money into more battery. It all looks the same from the outside if legalities are an issue where you live.....

 

[opperpanter]

Buy as much power and battery as you can afford..... You can always go light on the throttle on a higher v system. If it is cheaper, buy the 36v BBS02 and just reprogram for 48 or 52 then put the leftover money into more battery. It all looks the same from the outside if legalities are an issue where you live.....

Agreed, except that you can't reprogram the 36v to 48v. Buy the 750w and downturn if needed. Same efficiency as genuine 48v500w.
I think also equal to 36v bbs02. I've been told BBS01 is a little more efficient, but not really noticeable.
For 45km/h on 26" you'll need 46t ring, although some people get there on 44t. I max out at 43km/h with 44t.

 

[tomjasz]

BBSHD

 

[rurbano]

Thank you all!!!
I think I'll choose BBs02 750W-48V option as you recommended.

I'll just look for the best deal in the european market. Here in Portugal the motor kit without battery costs 900$.... (826€)... far too much.

Best regards

 

[geofft]

Eclipsebikes (UK stockist) have them in stock for around £370 - looks like they'll ship to Europe.

http://eclipsebikes.com/bafang-8fun-bbs02-drive-750w-motor-p-1100.html

 

[rurbano]

thank you all!!!!

 

[rurbano]

One last question....

I'll buy from ecplise bikes as you recommended, it's the best deal i found so far.
My question now is, which battery 13S4P29E or 13S4P 30Q?
They look very simmilar :
http://eclipsebikes.com/116ah-lithium-frame-battery-samsung-cells-p-1105.html
http://eclipsebikes.com/12ah-lithium-frame-battery-samsung-cells-p-1121.html

They have more or less the same Wh and weight, but which one will last longer? Is it worth the extra 50£?

Thanks in advance.

Rui

 

[alfantastic]

One last question....

I'll buy from ecplise bikes as you recommended, it's the best deal i found so far.
My question now is, which battery 13S4P29E or 13S4P 30Q?
They look very simmilar :
http://eclipsebikes.com/116ah-lithium-frame-battery-samsung-cells-p-1105.html
http://eclipsebikes.com/12ah-lithium-frame-battery-samsung-cells-p-1121.html

They have more or less the same Wh and weight, but which one will last longer? Is it worth the extra 50£?

Thanks in advance.

Rui

To be honest, looking at the specs, they are both capable of powering the BBS02 at it's max rated 25 amps. They are both very similar in capacity, so will last the same too.
I bought the 11.6Ah version from Eclipse last year, and it's a very good battery.

It all boils down to aesthetics in my opinion. The 12Ah is slightly smaller height wise and looks a little bit neater than the 11.6Ah battery.
Whether or not that's worth an extra £50, then it's up to you :wink:

Edit: Just noticed they do the new style casing with the same 29E batteries from your first link:

http://eclipsebikes.com/116ah-lithium-frame-battery-samsung-cells-p-1120.html

If I had to buy one of these today, then I would go for the new style casing. I didn't have that choice when I purchased last year

 

[rurbano]

Thank you!
As soon as I instal the kit I'll post a picture.

Best regards

 

[tomjasz]

Those cases are very popular but have no off on switch or USB port. Nope. I'll stick with the Dolphin. I think it's a more robust case and has a steel mounting bracket, not plastic like the Hailong case.

 

[alfantastic]

Those cases are very popular but have no off on switch or USB port. Nope. I'll stick with the Dolphin. I think it's a more robust case and has a steel mounting bracket, not plastic like the Hailong case.

Good extra info tomjasz

Not sure the lack of USB or On/Off switch would be a deal breaker for me, but might be for some prospective buyer.

 

[tomjasz]

Those cases are very popular but have no off on switch or USB port. Nope. I'll stick with the Dolphin. I think it's a more robust case and has a steel mounting bracket, not plastic like the Hailong case.

Good extra info tomjasz

Not sure the lack of USB or On/Off switch would be a deal breaker for me, but might be for some prospective buyer.

For some application the Dolphin is too tall and the Hailong will be the best fit. The plastic base it quite robust. Old guys like heavy metal! :wink:

 

[WoodlandHills]

The Hailong base mount just needs to be attached at three points not two. If you ride off-road the two watercage mount screws are not enough. I drilled a hole in the frame and used a steel threaded insert/Rivnut for the third attach point, now it is quite sturdy. You will also need to find another rubber mount insert since they only come with two and they are crucial to stabilizing the battery.

 

[rurbano]

Thank you all!

The bike will be manly used for commuting, a bit of off-road but never on single tracks.

My main question is: are samsung cells Q30 better than 29E?
It seems that they (30Q) are more recent, and can take a lilte more energy.
But what about the discharge rate (C) i couldn't clarify that. From what i read in this forum one should not discharge a battery at a too fast rate because it will reduce battery life.
Although eclipse bikes show that both can handle 25-30 A continuosly i was wondering if one of them would be better i.e. the optimal discharge rate would be close to 20-25A on a 13S4P battery and therefore have a longer life.

These are the data sheets for both cells, but I couldn't figure out an answer to my question....
29E - http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung%20INR18650-29E%202900mAh%20%28Blue%29%20UK.html
30Q - https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_INR18650-30Q.pdf

Thank you for the recommendations.

Best regards

Rui

 

[emilx]

hi guys
I am trying to find out a few informations regarding this kit, but a quick search in the 170+ pages of this thread did not give useful any results.
I admit I only used a friends BBS02 for a brief moment, but I realised a few shortcomings:
- the LCD does not have the power output indication. Is there any LCD able to display the instantaneous power output?
- the controller has a power supply current measurement rather than the phase one. that means it does not take into account current multiplication in the phases. It absorbed 20+ amps at O rpm... in real money that means probably means 200A in motor phase.. unless you run close to max rpm you most likely end up saturating the poor coils ans getting extremely poor efficiency. No wonder they made it that heavy.. lots of energy wasted.. . A simple test showed 3x energy consumption at the same speeds if the high gears were used (low motor rpms). Has anyone found a way to mitigate this huge design flaw?

I personally use a simple kunteng+q100 controller, and it seems years away more advanced than what Bafang has.. are we that desperate for a BB motor, to settle for such a poor design?hi guys

 

[alfantastic]

Thank you all!

The bike will be manly used for commuting, a bit of off-road but never on single tracks.

My main question is: are samsung cells Q30 better than 29E?
It seems that they (30Q) are more recent, and can take a lilte more energy.
But what about the discharge rate (C) i couldn't clarify that. From what i read in this forum one should not discharge a battery at a too fast rate because it will reduce battery life.
Although eclipse bikes show that both can handle 25-30 A continuosly i was wondering if one of them would be better i.e. the optimal discharge rate would be close to 20-25A on a 13S4P battery and therefore have a longer life.

These are the data sheets for both cells, but I couldn't figure out an answer to my question....
29E - http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung%20INR18650-29E%202900mAh%20%28Blue%29%20UK.html
30Q - https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_INR18650-30Q.pdf

Thank you for the recommendations.

Best regards

Rui

I really wouldn't worry about it. The Bafang will never continuously draw 25 amps for any great period of time.
Just buy the battery that you think would compliment your bike.

The best way to ensure motor, controller and battery longevity, is to always be in the correct gear when moving off and when traveling steep inclines.

 

[Leebolectric]

Emilx:
The "c963" display shows watts used.
It is also much smaller and the buttons are part of the screen.
I prefer it to the others, takes up less handlebar real estate with less wires too.

 

[WoodlandHills]

hi guys
I am trying to find out a few informations regarding this kit, but a quick search in the 170+ pages of this thread did not give useful any results.
I admit I only used a friends BBS02 for a brief moment, but I realised a few shortcomings:
- the LCD does not have the power output indication. Is there any LCD able to display the instantaneous power output?
- the controller has a power supply current measurement rather than the phase one. that means it does not take into account current multiplication in the phases. It absorbed 20+ amps at O rpm... in real money that means probably means 200A in motor phase.. unless you run close to max rpm you most likely end up saturating the poor coils ans getting extremely poor efficiency. No wonder they made it that heavy.. lots of energy wasted.. . A simple test showed 3x energy consumption at the same speeds if the high gears were used (low motor rpms). Has anyone found a way to mitigate this huge design flaw?

I personally use a simple kunteng+q100 controller, and it seems years away more advanced than what Bafang has.. are we that desperate for a BB motor, to settle for such a poor design?hi guys

We aren't desperate for a BB motor, but some of us were desperate for a design with an integrated controller. Not everyone wants their bike to look like a birds nest of spaghetti wires.

 

[emilx]

thanks a bunch. I was not aware of c963. I'll order one right away
I still think they should have improved the current at low RPMs. No excuse for them not having any notion of power electronics. Maybe we'll find a solution around it.. A dynamic change of power assist level based on motor RPM perhaps? i think we could come up with an algorithm, assuming the controller sends any rpm signal to the LCD... otherwise we have to estimate it.
As I said, Kunteng seems to know what they are doing. You have about 10% current at 0 rpm tops, the maximum torque remain the same, and the motor temperature does not get high even after long climbs. The secret is in measuring/controlling/estimating the phase current, not the power supply. That might have saved maybe a a kilo on BBS02 weight.
I have to agree about how silent is bbs02. I could barely hear any sound.. Even the chain noise seemed attenuate

 

[tomjasz]

The "c963" display shows watts used.

But notoriously inaccurate by most accounts.

 

[sapo]

Does anyone know what voltage is across the switch in the brake lever. I assume it is DC. I need to tap into it to drive a relay to control brake lights.

Mucking around with a relay, I may have blown the power supply in the controller that supplies that voltage by shorting it. Silly me!

So I guess I have to replace the controller?

Any empathic advice appreciated...