Which type of connectors for DIY batt pack

[FilipVandePeer]

This is my first post, after spending a 1000 hours on this and other forums, informal sites and commercial sites.

I'm living in Belgium, Flanders, totally flat roads, and I need the bike for getting to work and back (in total 60 kms)

I decided to buy a Bafang 750 and hell yeah, I will build my own battery pack. With a degree in electrics and reading about everything I could find, I'm totally ready for that. 14S7P.

At this point, I only have one practical question (at this moment )I plan to connect a voltage independant front light, and for example maybe a usb supply etc.

I suppose I have to split up my main battery supply wire by means of a specific connector.

What is recommended (Anderson Powerpole? Which type)

What do you guys suggest? Is it always done by means of the right connector, or by means of an interconnection box where you split up by terminals or so?

Thanks in advance. After so many hours, I'm still impressed by this knowledge base.

Filip

 

[wesnewell]

Just hook something like this direct to your 14s battery pack. They work great.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-85V-Universal-Motorcycle-E-bike-20W-LED-Modified-Headlight-Lamp-/111871356791

 

[FilipVandePeer]

That's indeed what I plan to do, but not directly connected onto the batt pack as you suggest.
I have to be able to plug and unplug my batt pack quickly and often, so the question is: how do you guys split up your batt pack supply cable into different connections?

Do you use a multi-connection plug soldered onto your main suplly wire?

 

[ccmdr]

weswell is spot on. If your disconnecting your pack frequently simply connect the DC-DC after your circuit breaker instead of before :wink:.

 

[ScooterMan101]

I visited electric vehicle rally's for years looking at DIY Car/Motorcycle/Bicycle conversion's before finally converting a bike myself. at these rally's / exhibits , for years I saw the use of Anderson PowerPole connectors, as well as over 15 years ago when I had a RC Model Sailplane , back then we used Anderson's .

What I am seeing these days from people who are using Hobby / RC Lipo's is that they are using either bullet connectors or the XT 60 or XT 90 connector , but the XT 60/90 is a bulky connector, compared to bullet connectors or the Anderson's.

When buying Anderson's be sure to get the official ones, there are copies out there , buy from a reputable dealer, not from a hobby store that sells a copy, the Anderson PowerPole connectors are cheep enough to buy the real thing ,
the 45 amp ones are probably good enough for you, as they are rated at 45 amps each connector,
that means both the black/negative and the red/positive connector can handle up to 45 amps...each. The 30 amp ones might be good enough for a front headlight . they make 15 amp ones as well.

This is my first post, after spending a 1000 hours on this and other forums, informal sites and commercial sites.

I'm living in Belgium, Flanders, totally flat roads, and I need the bike for getting to work and back (in total 60 kms)

I decided to buy a Bafang 750 and hell yeah, I will build my own battery pack. With a degree in electrics and reading about everything I could find, I'm totally ready for that. 14S7P.

At this point, I only have one practical question (at this moment )I plan to connect a voltage independant front light, and for example maybe a usb supply etc.

I suppose I have to split up my main battery supply wire by means of a specific connector.

What is recommended (Anderson Powerpole? Which type)

What do you guys suggest? Is it always done by means of the right connector, or by means of an interconnection box where you split up by terminals or so?

Thanks in advance. After so many hours, I'm still impressed by this knowledge base.

Filip

 

[dilkes]

This is my first post, after spending a 1000 hours on this and other forums, informal sites and commercial sites.

I'm living in Belgium, Flanders, totally flat roads, and I need the bike for getting to work and back (in total 60 kms)

I decided to buy a Bafang 750 and hell yeah, I will build my own battery pack. With a degree in electrics and reading about everything I could find, I'm totally ready for that. 14S7P.

At this point, I only have one practical question (at this moment )I plan to connect a voltage independant front light, and for example maybe a usb supply etc.

I suppose I have to split up my main battery supply wire by means of a specific connector.

What is recommended (Anderson Powerpole? Which type)

What do you guys suggest? Is it always done by means of the right connector, or by means of an interconnection box where you split up by terminals or so?

Thanks in advance. After so many hours, I'm still impressed by this knowledge base.

Filip

Here's an article from Luna Cycle on connectors:
https://www.electricbike.com/ebike-connectors/

The author is not that positive on Anderson Powerpoles, but many people (including myself) use them and are happy with them. I found it worthwhile to buy the Anderson crimper seen here http://www.powerwerx.com/crimping-tools/tricrimp-crimping-powerpole-contacts.html.

 

[FilipVandePeer]

Ok guys,
Thanks for the quick response. This was very helpfull to me.
Thanks for the lunacycle link too!

Regards,
Filip

 

[ScooterMan101]

Good article on electricbike.com

Yea the Anderson's are old , I first saw them on the RC Flying Field 25+ years ago.
I have about 20 pairs that I bought a few months ago before finding out about Luna Cycle LLC,
so now I am thinking about using them
on just peripheral wires , not the main battery to charger wire.

The article did not say if you can plug a XT 60 plug into a XT 90 Plug, I think not ? I mention this because Luna Cycle LLC
uses the XT 90 from the battery, but see the XT 60 being used more often elsewhere on wire harnesses .

The Anderson Crimper you link to is a ratcheting Crimper, have you noticed a big enough difference in crimping , between that
and a Good Quality ( standard non ratcheting Stripper/Crimper tool ?
( I already have a good quality ) 10-22 AWG Stripper/Crimper )

Here's an article from Luna Cycle on connectors:
https://www.electricbike.com/ebike-connectors/

The author is not that positive on Anderson Powerpoles, but many people (including myself) use them and are happy with them. I found it worthwhile to buy the Anderson crimper seen here http://www.powerwerx.com/crimping-tools/tricrimp-crimping-powerpole-contacts.html.

 

[tomjasz]

The Anderson Crimper you link to is a ratcheting Crimper, have you noticed a big enough difference in crimping , between that
and a Good Quality ( standard non ratcheting Stripper/Crimper tool ?
( I already have a good quality ) 10-22 AWG Stripper/Crimper )




.

[/quote]
My regular crimper didn't do as nice a job as the Anderson crimper from ebike.ca They were out but I found the identical by a google brand search. Good investment for me. I still use anderson's on 36V and 48V went to XT90-S for 52V.

 

[spinningmagnets]

The Luna battery packs use a female XT90 for the power coming from the battery, and a XT60 for charging. The XT60 and XT90's will not plug into each other.

XT60 uses 3.5mm pins, and XT90 uses 4.5mm pins.

 

[dmwahl]

I use Anderson 45A connectors with 10AWG wire, and see peaks of 80-90A with cruising around 20-30A. I would highly recommend the proper crimper instead of a generic one. Search for "Anderson TC-1 crimper" on Amazon and you'll find the one I have. Far better crimps compared to using a generic crimper and they go into the housing easily.

 

[sd91x]

Here's an article from Luna Cycle on connectors:
https://www.electricbike.com/ebike-connectors/

The author is not that positive on Anderson Powerpoles, but many people (including myself) use them and are happy with them. I found it worthwhile to buy the Anderson crimper seen here http://www.powerwerx.com/crimping-tools/tricrimp-crimping-powerpole-contacts.html.

This is a super old thread but in 2022 I'm still directed here from a web search. Since the Luna Cycle article is still up, I want to post that I don't take his analysis very seriously. Based on the statement "You can buy them 50 cents each here in bulk on ebay" in his comparison table, it is clear he is not reviewing Anderson Powerpole connectors but the Chinese counterfeit versions. You will find many pics of these counterfeit connectors with melted shells, particularly when plugged into a genuine Anderson connector. I essentially take issue with his whole write-up:

I see these a lot on DIY bikes as charging connectors. That is because chargers rarely charge over 7 amps and these connectors are cheap. They are an old technology which I feel has been surpassed by better connectors. Note that this is the mini version of the Anderson connector and shouldnt be confused with its big brother which is much larger and I feel too big to be used in an ebike.

The shape of the 30A Anderson connector housings allows two (or more) of them to be connected together side-by-side. It is “possible” to mate two of them so that they can be plugged in backwards to the opposing pair. I recommend that if you buy these (or buy a product that already has them installed), attach the two side-by-side housings so that the pins inside form the shape of a “T” when you look at the end. Once they are configured for safety, put a piece of heat-shrink tubing over them to prevent them from coming apart (and then possibly re-connected in a bad orientation).

Their official name is Anderson Power Poles (APP).

The genuine connectors are not "cheap" and that's one of the downsides. There is no "mini" Powerpole but the standard shell can take 15-45A contacts. That's an actual 45A continuous rating with a UL certification, not Aliexpress seller puffery. Genuine Powerpoles come with a locking pin to prevent separation when mounting in pairs.

The advantages of the Powerpole are maintaining low contact resistance over a large number of mating cycles. The disadvantages are the low pullout force and, like all crimped connectors, require the manufacturers crimp tool to achieve the rated specifications. If you are disconnecting a battery for every charge cycle this connector fits the application,

For an application where you are only mating a device a few times in its life, an XT connector would be great. This would be an internal battery that does not get removed to be charged. In this application, however, you probably don't even need a connector and can make the connection on a terminal post. The advantages I see with the XT connector are that they a are cheap and you don't need a fancy crimp tool since they have solder pins.

I'm not advocating for general use of the Anderson Powerpole over XT connector as they both address different applications. I just wanted to raise awareness that the commonly referenced Luna Cycle article seems way off to me.

 

[99t4]

Many members here have low opinion of Luna. Didn't he try to take over this forum at one point?

 

[tomjasz]

Here's an article from Luna Cycle on connectors:
https://www.electricbike.com/ebike-connectors/

The author is not that positive on Anderson Powerpoles, but many people (including myself) use them and are happy with them. I found it worthwhile to buy the Anderson crimper seen here http://www.powerwerx.com/crimping-tools/tricrimp-crimping-powerpole-contacts.html.

This is a super old thread but in 2022 I'm still directed here from a web search. Since the Luna Cycle article is still up, I want to post that I don't take his analysis very seriously. Based on the statement "You can buy them 50 cents each here in bulk on ebay" in his comparison table, it is clear he is not reviewing Anderson Powerpole connectors but the Chinese counterfeit versions. You will find many pics of these counterfeit connectors with melted shells, particularly when plugged into a genuine Anderson connector. I essentially take issue with his whole write-up:

I see these a lot on DIY bikes as charging connectors. That is because chargers rarely charge over 7 amps and these connectors are cheap. They are an old technology which I feel has been surpassed by better connectors. Note that this is the mini version of the Anderson connector and shouldnt be confused with its big brother which is much larger and I feel too big to be used in an ebike.

The shape of the 30A Anderson connector housings allows two (or more) of them to be connected together side-by-side. It is “possible” to mate two of them so that they can be plugged in backwards to the opposing pair. I recommend that if you buy these (or buy a product that already has them installed), attach the two side-by-side housings so that the pins inside form the shape of a “T” when you look at the end. Once they are configured for safety, put a piece of heat-shrink tubing over them to prevent them from coming apart (and then possibly re-connected in a bad orientation).

Their official name is Anderson Power Poles (APP).

The genuine connectors are not "cheap" and that's one of the downsides. There is no "mini" Powerpole but the standard shell can take 15-45A contacts. That's an actual 45A continuous rating with a UL certification, not Aliexpress seller puffery. Genuine Powerpoles come with a locking pin to prevent separation when mounting in pairs.

The advantages of the Powerpole are maintaining low contact resistance over a large number of mating cycles. The disadvantages are the low pullout force and, like all crimped connectors, require the manufacturers crimp tool to achieve the rated specifications. If you are disconnecting a battery for every charge cycle this connector fits the application,

For an application where you are only mating a device a few times in its life, an XT connector would be great. This would be an internal battery that does not get removed to be charged. In this application, however, you probably don't even need a connector and can make the connection on a terminal post. The advantages I see with the XT connector are that they a are cheap and you don't need a fancy crimp tool since they have solder pins.

I'm not advocating for general use of the Anderson Powerpole over XT connector as they both address different applications. I just wanted to raise awareness that the commonly referenced Luna Cycle article seems way off to me.

Spot on. I have only USA made and the 45A have served me well for a dozen personal builds. All the BBSxx series, 1000W Macs, MXUS 1500W, and Grin 9C FH212. Luna(tic) has built few eBikes. He blathers, employees do the real work and design.

 

[tomjasz]

Many members here have low opinion of Luna. Didn't he try to take over this forum at one point?

Ancient history not worth revisiting. ES is in good hands.

 

[amberwolf]

The disadvantages are the low pullout force

FWIW, Anderson makes multiple versions of the contacts for various versions of the PPs and SBs, with varying degrees of contact retention force.

If you need much higher retention you can also use the larger PPs or SBs, which have higher force the larger they get.

BTW, the primary problem with the non-genuine Andersons (PP or SB) is the shells are often made of much softer plastic, allowing easier deformation even at "room temperature" which then allows contact movement relative to each other, which increases contact resistance, which increases heating, which increases deformation, which can cascade into connection failure.

Even if the shell is hard enough, they also may have much weaker springs to force the contacts into position, creating the same cascade as above.


But the worst part is that so many people use too large a gauge of wire (or too thick insulation) with the small PP15/45 shell size so the contacts cannot "float" within the shell and self-align correctly, and thus cause that cascade above, even if they used genuine ones (but often they don't, making the problem occur even easier).

The same thing occurs if the wires are tied together or tied down too close to the shell, or pulled on or angled / etc too close to the shell.

 

[john61ct]

There are suppliers and custom harness providers that do a great job and use original components top shelf wiring and the proper crimpers.

Getting the same result can be done DIY but it is expensive and does have a practice / learning curve.

Powerwerx and genuinedealz.com

https://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/about_us maybe

 

[tomjasz]

There are suppliers and custom harness providers that do a great job and use original components top shelf wiring and the proper crimpers.

Getting the same result can be done DIY but it is expensive and does have a practice / learning curve.

Powerwerx and genuinedealz.com

https://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/about_us maybe

Gregs Marine? 1AWG and 2AWG? :lol:

My only issue is insertion with silicon shielded wire, making the insertion and removal tool invaluable.

 

[methods]

I use WAGO 221 now
Otherwise I use Anderson PP45 in 10awg or PB50 for 8awg and up.

The most important thing to understand about a power connector is that it generates heat and the cabling is the heat sink for that!

Anderson power pole only works with large AWG wire to pull the heat away from the contact. You also must use genuine high temperature plastic that does not embrittle

Watch this very scary video of counterfeit Anderson connector

[youtube]2RlrwwlJTqM[/youtube]

That's yellow blue green from a hub motor. For a long time both housing and contacts were very very counterfeit. Making that worse you have to do the right crimp so the spring can work.

Most important of all though is to have a good heavy copper heat sink on your electrical connection because it will generate heat and melt itself

-methods

 

[amberwolf]

I use WAGO 221 now

Would you recommend those for phase wires on 40-ish (battery) amp systems? Presumably I'd need to get "60A" rated versions, if they make them?


Presently using these on the trike, they're working ok, reusable, easy enough to connect, apparently "fail safe" in the event of axle rotation enough to pull on the wiring that hard (the wires pull right out). Don't know the resistance, though.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=325338