why?

[electricbandit]

Hello i was just wondering if any one knew why if i order from cyclone tw shipping to canada is only 127usd but if i order it from the states its 500usd in just shipping two times what the motor costs? I ask my fellow cyclists because i never get responds to me emails from them.

 

[turbo1889]

Don't have an answer to your specific question.

BUT

If you are looking for a cyclone kit in the states for a reasonable price, check this out:

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=170

I'm almost sure that is an external controller cyclone kit or a very close clone of one and the price tag is a lot better and it ships from in the states.

 

[flyinmonkie]

If you are ordering from paco at cyclone.tw, then you need to email him for a shipping quote. The website calculated shipping is wrong. Most people have had a good experience dealing with him.

Clay

 

[spinningmagnets]

It's a market-driven price structure. The north american group simply knows it can charge more because many customers who are new to E-bikes will pay more to avoid an overseas transaction. Many times I have been charged "X" for shipping, and when the package arrives the shipping tag shows that the actual charge was 1/2-X, so they are making a few bucks off of the shipping (if pressed they often reply with vague terms like "warehouse handling and administrative charges")

 

[turbo1889]

Technically so long as they only said "Shipping" then I think charging exorbitantly more then actual shipping charges can result in getting hit with a fraud charge (good luck on getting that to happen if your the consumer, good luck at avoiding it if your a small business, either way you will get short end of stick).

That is why almost anyone and everyone with any kind of business sense says "Shipping and Handling (S&H)" and that little change in wording allows them to pretty much charge whatever they want to charge.

 

[TheBeastie]

I never bought one but I have looked at them thoroughly, I am under the impression that the Cyclone kits are a bit of a rip off compared to the upper range GNG crankdrive kits.

 

[turbo1889]

I've had one of their 360 watt double stage freewheel recumbent motors for quite a while now that I've been using on a long-tail cargo bike (Yuba). Kept having to replace the internal controller so I finally just re-wired it for an external controller and used a programmable Kelly on it.

The main reason I went that way for that bike was being able to do a simple mount with the motor behind the bottom bracket in the spot I had open for it in the big rear triangle of that bike with a simple set-up using two chain loops one from the crank to the motor and then one from the motor back to the rear sprocket spool with no need to change out my crank for a free-wheeling one and no chance of getting my pants bottom hem or shoe lace caught in a moving motorized chain. Plus that it was a 24V system and I had the ability to get a couple of 12V 20Ah LiFePO4 batteries for cheap that were built from quality prismatic cells and I could charge them in parallel off of any 12V source and then run them in series to power the motor and they fit so nice with one on each side of the rear cargo rack nice and low and balanced side to side.

Was my first e-bike actually. Other then the internal controller being the week link I haven't had any trouble with it. Still expecting the double stage freewheel to go out sooner or later and I have a spare on hand for when it does but so far that hasn't happened yet which kind of surprises me.

 

[turbo1889]

One additional factor the Cyclone set-up has as a plus over the GNG upper end brush-less set-ups is that it is an all metal drive train. Metal planetary gears for the reduction on the motor head. This makes it louder but that is more durable then a belt drive reduction like the GNG 1-Kv or plastic gears like the GNG 2nd Gen. Granted I don't own a GNG 2nd Gen so I can't make a fair comparison but from my understanding it is just a converted geared hub motor with plastic gears and I do have some experience with them of which my biggest complaint is that in cold winter weather those plastic gears become brittle, been there done that. I do have the main drive assembly of a GNG 1-Kv that I bought used off of another guy who broke the bottom bracket that comes with it and that along with the fact that he had been going through belts made him frustrated with it so he sold it to me "as is" and I've got it running fairly well after I used a Dremel to smooth the sharp edges on the teeth of the motor end belt sprocket (based on stuff I read on this forum) and tamed it down a little bit by running it on 36V rather then the original 48V using an old 36V controller I had laying around and parts purchased from "Sick Bike Parts" and Staton-Inc to build myself a decent freewheeling bottom bracket to go with it with the gearing between the motors and pedals set-up so that running the motor at full throttle and pedaling at 90-RPM cadence both me and the motor match each other and work together in sync. So I think can make a fairly valid comparison between that GNG set-up and the Cyclone set-up. Both have their strengths and weaknesses but I wouldn't consider that GNG offering to be superior to a Cyclone set-up with one of their larger motors that uses an external controller rather then an internal one and I would be worried about how well one the GNG 2nd Gen. units would hold up in cold winter weather without popping the plastic planetary gears - something that isn't a big worry with the metal gears in the head of the Cyclone motors.

I do agree that the Cyclone motors with the internal controllers should be avoided unless you are willing to do a re-wire job and hook up an external controller when (not if) the internal controller goes out.

 

[electricbandit]

Thanks to all that asnswered . The sic bike one kinda seems a better option right now because paco finally got bake to me and he said the shipping will be the same as it is from taiwan if i order it from eb kit or cyclone usa because they all shipp out from the factory in taiwan.He said just to ask for a little bit of a discount. So it seems unlikely im ordering from cyclone cuz it seems really stupid to twice what the motor costs in shipping.

Golden motors canada has a 500 brushless mid drive for just 109! Or sick bike has thier kit for 260 and since the controller is external i could put a better controller in and amp it up to 36volt shouldnt I?

 

[turbo1889]

. . . Golden motors canada has a 500 brushless mid drive for just 109! . . .

That's just the motor alone, no controller or any other parts.

Also, going to 36V with the kit from Sick Bike Parts by using a different controller is certainly possible. But that would be Volt-ing it up not Amp-ing it up.

 

[electricbandit]

. . . Golden motors canada has a 500 brushless mid drive for just 109! . . .

That's just the motor alone, no controller or any other parts.

Also, going to 36V with the kit from Sick Bike Parts by using a different controller is certainly possible. But that would be Volt-ing it up not Amp-ing it up.

109 for the motor is just fine by me. Id use the magic contoller V.2 and their full grip throttle. I have a guy who built a hydrogen powered bike helping me build it so we can set it up for a duel Freewheel set up if i go that route.

And that is a good point abot amperage the law here is 32 km so 20 mph and the cops are pretty on top of things because alot of ppl abuse the ebike laws

 

[electricbandit]

to add mor amps youd just use more amp hour battireis wouldnt you?

 

[turbo1889]

Amps is controlled by the controller. A controller with a 20-Amp limit will only give that much (some slightly more for a short period but will block high Amps for extended period). Going too high on Amps is a good way to burn out a motor. Every motor is rated for so much Amps based on how much and how thick of wire is used in its coils. Usually you can push a little more Amps through them then what they were designed for but that results in heating of the motor and coils and if you try to push too much Amps through a motor beyond its design specs. for too long the heat can become too great and you can literally burn up the motor.

Increasing Volts increases motor RPM and thus can give you more speed depending on how you have the motor geared to the wheel. Increasing Amps increases the torque of the motor and makes it stronger at the same speed.

If you only want to go 20mph and stick to the e-bike regs. as you state the stock configuration of 650 watts for the sick bikes kit (24V @ 27Amps) should do that at least on flat ground provided your not really big or trying to haul or tow a bunch of cargo or something. Same goes for the 500 watts golden motor (48V @ 10.5Amps) provided you gear them to the drive system of the bike at the right gearing ratio to match the motors output to the desired speed range. Most e-bikes that suck a lot of watts for how much speed you get out of them is due to using incorrect drive ratios between the motor and the wheel so the motor is not operating in its "sweet spot".

 

[turbo1889]

Bigger battery as well isn't a bad idea since if your pulling more Amps with a higher rated controller your going to use up battery power faster. The Amp ratings of batteries is a measurement of capacity (actually the measurement is Amp Hours (Ah)) which means a 20Ah battery can provide 20Amps of power for one houre, or 10Amps of power for two hours or 40Amps of power for 1/2 of an hour. I think you get the idea.

 

[Gab]

Turbo1889: "One additional factor the Cyclone set-up has as a plus over the GNG upper end brush-less set-ups is that it is an all metal drive train. Metal planetary gears for the reduction on the motor head. This makes it louder but that is more durable then a belt drive reduction like the GNG 1-Kv or plastic gears like the GNG 2nd Gen. Granted I don't own a GNG 2nd Gen so I can't make a fair comparison but from my understanding it is just a converted geared hub motor with plastic gears and I do have some experience with them of which my biggest complaint is that in cold winter weather those plastic gears become brittle, been there done that."

The cyclone type of kits like the EGO kit and new AFT kit do have advanatges as you say over the GNG. They are more compact and not so many exposed gears and chains to get entangled on your pants ! or collect mud. Also as you say steel teeth Vs plastic gears in a geared hub mid drive means the cyclone gearbox is probably one of the strongest and compact reductions u can get. It just needs to be a bit quieter and then it would be ideal solution, maybe with some noise insulating covers to keep the noise in ?

 

[electricbandit]

[/quote]If you only want to go 20mph and stick to the e-bike regs. as you state the stock configuration of 650 watts for the sick bikes kit (24V @ 27Amps) should do that at least on flat ground provided your not really big or trying to haul or tow a bunch of cargo or something. Same goes for the 500 watts golden motor (48V @ 10.5Amps) provided you gear them to the drive system of the bike at the right gearing ratio to match the motors output to the desired speed range. Most e-bikes that suck a lot of watts for how much speed you get out of them is due to using incorrect drive ratios between the motor and the wheel so the motor is not operating in its "sweet spot".[/quote]


I will stick to e bike regs on city surfaces but I'm hoping to do more on the back roads since just having a 650 waatt controller in british columbia makes it an electric scooter

But i mainly travel surface streets i most likely wont be able to gun it alot. I would like to ride it like a mini motorcycle cuz my knees are going at a young age.

 

[kentlim26]

the internal gears are Tough, please don't worry. after more then 6000km had been passed they are still Okay. as long if you run them under 50km/h, those internal gearing are doing well. I have 4 or 5 spare internal gearing sets , had been never replaced. it has been in my store room for years. long ago, i have heard internal gearing will be quickly worn off, used less then few months. However it didn't happen to me. it could be me, most of the time i run them mostly on flat ground. I run them as hard , always very quickly reach a top speed 48km/h.

So it really depend on user yourself, the real result will be different. I run them cyclone + huatong controller 2200 watts max.