Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

[TheBeastie]

Australian team claim to have developed a new Hydrogen electrolyser With a 20% efficiency improvement over the current industry standard.
The test results indicate a 40.4 kWh/kg energy consumption compared to the current 50+ kWh/kg for PEM electrolysers.
However, these are only lab test cell results, and a commercial scale trial is yet to be undertaken.
An improvement if it carries through but,,...i do not understand how they predict this improvement can reduce the price of green hydrogen from the current $8-9/kg to less than $2/kg ??

https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2022/03/16/australian-electrolyser-invention-enables-green-hydrogen-under-2-kg-by-mid-2020s/

From the article

The Hysata electrolyser consumes 40.4 kWh of energy for every kilogram of hydrogen it produces. The Nature paper noted commercial electrolysis cells tend to use around 47.5 kWh/kg, though Hysata CEO Paul Barrett claimed it was closer to 52.5kWh/kg. This equates to around 75% system-level efficiency, whereas the Hysata system claims a total efficiency of 95%.

This 20% efficiency boost has enabled the massive cost reduction Hysata says it’s only a few years away from making a reality.

Great/Amazing claims and on top also saying only a few years away from making it a reality, so we don't have to wait long to see if its baloney or not, so exciting stuff.

Extreme pro-Tesla YouTube channel "The Tesla Space" has actually said something positive about Nikola Motor Company, starting at about 8:20 in...
https://youtu.be/JXvECdLUxIg?t=497

Nikola Motors is now actually in mass production of all battery semi-trucks, some reports claim up to 2,500 per year is their current schedule.

And Nikola Motors has a deal with Anheuser-Busch/Budweiser beer company who are testing their real Fuel-Cell versions how well they handle long haul transportation of beer.
As you can see in this video below with the FCEV written on the side of the truck etc.
https://youtu.be/0ALfgG4tV-4?t=184

 

[Ianhill]

From a company thats used extension cables to fake a fully functioning truck, then roll said truck down hill to get a driving montage theres clearly no limits to trickery they will use.

Only one thats taken the piss of that is elongated musky smell himself i expect him to bring a UFO on stage for preorder next the guys lost it promises thats never kept and keeps saying them, he has chatted more shit than eddie hall.

 

[Hillhater]

Nikola Motors is now actually in mass production of all battery semi-trucks, some reports claim up to 2,500 per year is their current schedule.

And Nikola Motors has a deal with Anheuser-Busch/Budweiser beer company who are testing their real Fuel-Cell versions how well they handle long haul transportation of beer.

I assume you are aware that AB already have several BYD class 8 heavy haul BEV tractor truck units delivering beer around SF ?
Not only are those BYD trucks built in CA and are supplied to several other companies, ..but there are a range of other manufacturers offering EV trucks.
It is helped , not insignificantly , by the $120,000 per unit, incentive to buyers in CA. ,
https://californiahvip.org/vehicle-category/heavy-duty/

 

[calab]

$120k is quite the incentive, for a truck that would be a half a million easy.

 

[Hillhater]

$120k is quite the incentive, for a truck that would be a half a million easy.

?”half a million easy “..... Do you think so?
How about $150,000 !
https://www.tesla.com/semi?redirect=no
But it is not easy to find reliable info on these EV truck prices, .
It would seem to be agreed though , they are about $100k more expensive than equivalent Diesel versions, which would put them in the $250-300k range for the Electric version.

 

[calab]

I am not up to date on my o.t.r. semi truck prices, I'd figure 250k and double it.
2021 KENWORTH W900L TANDEM WITH PUSHER AXLE TRACTOR WITH SLEEPER is worth $275k

 

[TheBeastie]

Saw this article in the news...
MIT-backed startup develops polymer-based batteries for stationary storage
The device is based on a standard, two-electrode electrochemical cell containing conductive polymers, a carbon-graphene hybrid, and a non-flammable liquid electrolyte. The battery cells were tested to perform for 12,000 cycles at 100% depth of discharge.
...
According to the MIT Technology Review, the battery packs are up to five times larger than lithium-ion systems of the same capacity and don’t require active temperature control.
https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2022/04/19/mit-backed-startup-develops-polymer-based-batteries-for-stationary-storage/

Looking at the companies website it looks like pretty viable grid energy storage technology for helping renewables.
https://www.polyjoule.com/technology
^Overall it appears the raw materials are far more simple than lithium based energy storage.

https://www.polyjoule.com/systems
^It also has far higher temperature ranges than lithium cells since these can work at -40c, so this would be good for wind-farms in the northern hemisphere.
One thing I was wondering about is if these Polyjoule cells can dry up and get crappy quickly but they claim the opposite "Molecularly designed to tolerate any climate without HVAC, last 20+ years"
So you don't need to keep them in a temperature controlled room.

Energy density is FAR lower than lithium-ion as they claim it's 5x times bigger for the same energy capacity, so it's only good for non-portable energy storage, but if the simple raw materials are far cheaper then if they built a huge giga-factory equivalent to pump out these Polyjoule cells it would make a lot of sense, logically there can never really be enough lithium-ion cells available for all the worlds transportation needs...

https://www.polyjoule.com/systems#Power
^Claims it can discharge the power 6 times faster than lithium-ion.

https://www.polyjoule.com/applications#CandI
Using an ultra-safe, long-life battery from PolyJoule allows for renewable energy users to store and use energy sustainably and at low cost.
And logically if it has no lithium in it then it can only logically be far less flammable than lithium based cells.

So that's my write up, does it have a future or is it some how an evil scam that's designed only to rob Elon Musk of money

 

[Voltron]

California setting record levels of renewables... Running the grid at 96% and 97% at points this year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/california-sets-clean-energy-record-as-it-pushes-toward-climate-change-goals-182301261.html

And wind surged in the US to being the second highest source of energy....

"As E&E reporter Ben Storrow noted and the EIA confirmed, wind turbines last Tuesday generated over 2,000 gigawatt-hours of electricity, edging out electricity generated by nuclear and coal (but still trailing behind natural gas).
Last year, wind was the fourth-largest electricity source behind natural gas, coal, and nuclear"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/06/politics/wind-energy-milestone-us-climate/index.html

 

[Hillhater]

And wind surged in the US to being the second highest source of energy....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/06/politics/wind-energy-milestone-us-climate/index.html

......Errr ? ...so on a day with one of the lowest demands, (with coal and Nuclear output consequently reduced)..there was an unusual, unpredicted, brief spike in winds such that a new record was set ??....amazing !!
So what was happening back in August, September ‘21 when there was a real demand for supply ..?
You just dont accept the issue is the UNRELIABILITY of wind (and solar) for an effective National energy supply.
California is headed for some hard lessons in letting bad politics outweigh good engineering common sense.

 

[Voltron]

You seem angry that renewables are doing well, especially in California, while you live in a country that while it has abundant solar and wind, and possibly wave energy, is trying to sue China into importing Australian coal. Is that what you mean by politics?
Why so angry that renewables continue to do well?

 

[Hillhater]

You seem angry that renewables are doing well,.....

No, not anger, just sheer disappointment and amazement that so many people continue to BELIEVE renewables are doing well, when the data available and presented in your links clearly show they are a dismal failure both operationally and financially !
Financier and investor in RE, W Buffet even openly stated that if it was not for the tax incentives, wind farms would never be worth investing in.
Despite all the billions of $$s thrown at wind , its contribution is not only patheticly low, but more importantly ( and rarely mentioned in those reports) , is its unpredictability and frequent total failure, which necessitates 100% backup capacity from other sources....invariably fossil fueled.
But it is interesting to watch the disaster play out slowly.!

 

[Ianhill]

Whats crazy is 7 billion + people using smart phones world wide 91% of the global population total, but the worlds extreme poverty number is 9% so is the guage of wealth the fact if you have a phone or not if so are the 9%ers really the better ones off with out the bullshit that comes with youtube,gaming,terrestrial tv whatever your poison.

Average mobile phone has around 2500mah battery for 9.25wh if everyone charged once a day thats around 65gwh needed a day if my maths correct to keep the twitchers happy alone.

The average of each joe daily tasks is 58kwh for primary energy in a day all fuels etc basiclly so that figure is dwarfed all energy per day is like 400twh globally.

At that rate no wonder shits getting hot and people cant breath for shit in population dense areas, but the key to the future is create higher popluation dense zones with shitty air quality with plastic in the water and air, nothing like eating the sweat off a hundred men on a train rushhour in the summer.

 

[ZeroEm]

Was a trend in the poorer countries to have a phone and keep your money in the phone for the lack of banks. They can pay from the phone. They have been trying to get that started here. They can charge their phones thru solar. When you count up the amount of energy used by phones don't forget the Cell Towers!

by Ianhill » Apr 20 2022 5:25am

Whats crazy is 7 billion + people using smart phones world wide 91% of the global population total, but the worlds extreme poverty number is 9% so is the guage of wealth the fact if you have a phone or not if so are the 9%ers really the better ones off with out the bullshit that comes with youtube,gaming,terrestrial tv whatever your poison.

Average mobile phone has around 2500mah battery for 9.25wh if everyone charged once a day thats around 65gwh needed a day if my maths correct to keep the twitchers happy alone.

The average of each joe daily tasks is 58kwh for primary energy in a day all fuels etc basiclly so that figure is dwarfed all energy per day is like 400twh globally.

At that rate no wonder shits getting hot and people cant breath for shit in population dense areas, but the key to the future is create higher popluation dense zones with shitty air quality with plastic in the water and air, nothing like eating the sweat off a hundred men on a train rushhour in the summer.

 

[Chalo]

At that rate no wonder shits getting hot and people cant breath for shit in population dense areas, but the key to the future is create higher popluation dense zones with shitty air quality with plastic in the water and air, nothing like eating the sweat off a hundred men on a train rushhour in the summer.

The only critical problem with population dense areas is the cars. They ruin the air and pretty much everything else about quality of life.

 

[Voltron]

It's not city folk, on the transportation end anyway....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/gasoline-superusers-only-10-of-us-drivers-burn-almost-a-third-of-the-gas/


"According to Coltura, 48% of the billions of gallons of gasoline consumed in the US by light duty vehicles is burned by just 20% of drivers. The top 10% of drivers, so-called superusers, account for a disproportionately large 32% of the fuel used -- more gas than the bottom 60% of drivers combined."

"The average superuser consumes more than 1,000 gallons of gasoline per year, Coltura's report continues. They're more likely to own a pickup truck or an SUV, usually live in rural areas and tend to drive three times more than the average driver. The study also claims that superusers have a lower average income than your typical EV driver and spend around 8% of that income on gasoline -- proportionally twice that of the average US driver."

 

[Voltron]

Another article on those darn ineffective renewables...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/9-us-cities-now-produce-more-solar-power-than-the-entire-us-did-10-years-ago-211221655.html

"American rooftop solar power is growing at a stunning rate, a new study finds, with solar capacity increasing 19% in 2021.
The United States now has 121.4 gigawatts of solar photovoltaic capacity, enough to power 23 million homes, up from just 0.34 gigawatts in 2008, according to the Department of Energy."

 

[ZeroEm]

There is a big push here in San Antonio, TX to install roof top solar. They will charge you a set amount (about the same as your smallest bill) and take everything above that and pay the electric bill.

by Voltron » Apr 21 2022 11:50pm

Another article on those darn ineffective renewables...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/9-us-cities- ... 21655.html

"American rooftop solar power is growing at a stunning rate, a new study finds, with solar capacity increasing 19% in 2021.
The United States now has 121.4 gigawatts of solar photovoltaic capacity, enough to power 23 million homes, up from just 0.34 gigawatts in 2008, according to the Department of Energy."

 

[Hillhater]

Another article on those darn ineffective renewables...
....
The United States now has 121.4 gigawatts of solar photovoltaic capacity, enough to power 23 million homes, ."

? Easily impressed ??
I assume you know that “capacity” does not reflect actual output ?
With solar CF varying between 5% and 25% depending on location, that effectively means that there is approx 20-24 GW of effective output.....most of which will operating all at the same time, 10am-2.00 pm, just when it is not needed !
..and of course , no output during the evening and morning peaks when it may be useful !
So, either those owners of that solar need to invest in enough battery storage, or the main utility supply will have to retain full capacity of fossil and nuclear generation to support those solar enthusiasts during the nights and winters when they get very little from their PV investments....
...which effectively forces up the costs of power for every grid connected consumer !
So yes, that 121.4 GW is darn ineffective ! :wink:

 

[Voltron]

You should put up some stories about all the great stuff Australia is doing to fight climate change. It'd be great to hear about.

 

[Hillhater]

You should put up some stories about all the great stuff Australia is doing to fight climate change. It'd be great to hear about.

If you really believe it is possible to prevent the climate from changing ?.....
...then i guess you mean what is happening in Australia about reducing CO2 emissions ..... yes ?
Maybe this is what you want to know...
Well to start , Australia has more Roof Top Solar installed, per head, than any other country !
Overall, 24% of electricity generated last year was from Renewables (USA 20.1%)
Per capita CO2 emissions have been reduced by 20% since 2000
BUT, you should understand that it is all insignificant as Australia contributes only 1.4% of all the anthropogenic CO2 emissions worldwide, ...and is infact a NET CO2 SINK due to its large land mass and low population. !!

 

[Voltron]

Yes, apparently you don't burn much of it there. You just ship it off to other places to be burned. Turns out the temperature increases don't stay where you ship it off to though.
I could see how it's in your economic self interest there to try to pretend increased fossil fuel use isn't a bad thing.

"Australia emits less than 2 percent of global greenhouse gases, but its climate decisions carry significant weight because it is a coal superpower and the world’s third-largest exporter of fossil fuels. At the same time, the country is increasingly vulnerable to global warming. Since 1910, Australia’s average surface temperature has warmed by 1.4 degrees Celsius, surpassing the global average. Fires, droughts and cyclones have all become more frequent and severe.
And when asked about cutting back on gas exploration or power plants that use fossil fuels, Mr. Morrison emphasized that the plan would protect jobs around the country.
In a statement published before the news conference, he put it more simply: “We want our heavy industries, like mining, to stay open, remain competitive and adapt, so they remain viable for as long as global demand allows.”
In other words, critics argued, Australia’s official policy is still delay, not commitment.
Terry Hughes, a climate scientist who directs a center for coral reef studies at James Cook University, said that if Australia was serious about climate change, it would ban new coal mines and gas fields instead of encouraging them.

 

[Hillhater]

. Since 1910, Australia’s average surface temperature has warmed by 1.4 degrees Celsius, surpassing the global average. Fires, droughts and cyclones have all become more frequent and severe....

I dont know where you source your info, but you need a better fact checker..!
These are the trite headlines repeated by Green protagonists for consumption by gullible followers who cannot be bothered to check facts
Check what the temperature was BEFORE 1910 ..!....the 1896 heat wave and drought...convieniently avoided by many ?
And check how much the original temperature records of the last 100 yrs have been reviewed and adjusted DOWN in order to accentuate an apparent rise over time.
Check the actual frequency and severity of those fires , cyclones, droughts, ..and floods whilst you are at it !
..But please try to use reliable, unbiased, sources....fact checked !

 

[Hillhater]

Germany is realising the limitations of Wind and Solar now that the enforced shortage of gas puts pressure on renewables to perform

.Former Hamburg Senator for the Environment, Fritz Vahrenholt,.................
, Vahrenholt – who, incidentally, played a leading role in the development of so-called “renewable energies” in Germany – explains why these technologies are not suitable for supplying an industrialized nation with 100 percent of its energy. He has nothing against these technologies, having helped to develop them himself, but with more than 40 or 50 percent of the electricity supply it becomes expensive, inefficient and increasingly unstable.

Abandoning coal, nuclear “a big mistake”....
The “big mistake” of the Merkel governments, however, was to abandon nuclear and coal and replace the lost capacity with natural gas. The consequences of this can now be seen in the Ukraine war and Germany’s immense dependence on Russia. Therefore, he said, the German government urgently needs to “tell the truth” to the population that green energies alone announced in the coalition agreement can no longer function, ........

https://climate-science.press/2022/04/23/energy-expert-recent-warming-is-moderate-germanys-push-to-green-energies-has-reached-end-of-the-line/?amp

 

[TheBeastie]

Fascinating video by Veritasium on how toxic the metal lead is, and how one man claimed it was safe to put into petroleum fuel to increase engine performance and make himself rich.
While another scientist who helped work on the first nuclear bomb, Clair Cameron Patterson, discovered just how destructive his actions were. Where he found lead levels massively increasing everywhere including in the oceans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3dnLzthDA
[youtube]IV3dnLzthDA[/youtube]

One of the still biggest sources of lead poisoning is lead car batteries usually pooly dumped, or some retarded shit head is melting them down in their backyard to make fishing sinkers or something...
I can't find it now but there was this great report from ABC explaining how this guys backyard chickens were dying/sick and found out later that the previous house owner would melt down car lead acid batteries in the backyard... This video is kind of close...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9jilVW81CY
Lead has been known to be toxic for HUNDREDS of years but we only barely now actually getting away from lead.

And even only recent models of Tesla cars don't have a lead "back up / auxiliary" battery in them any more, I couldn't believe it when I first read that even Teslas have a lead car battery in them as well, it should be all lithium ffs!
https://www.batteriesinternational.com/2021/02/12/tesla-announces-it-will-ditch-the-auxiliary-lead-battery-in-models-s-and-x/

 

[Voltron]

Watched a sad and horrifying documentary where "recycling" meant car batteries were getting shipped off to Central America, cracked open, the acid dumped out on the ground, then the plastic case and lead burned to separate them. Then the lead got used to make giant vats of liquid glaze for coating terra cotta roof tiles, and lines of kids were dipping their arms into to ladle it out onto the drying tiles.
Nightmarish thinking about how shitty their lives had to be after that kind of exposure.