Winter, snow, ice, slush commute problem

[donob08]

Hey

..I ride 15 or so miles a day in this glorious weather near Rochester, NY. The residents here are feeling bad because we are are third in the state's snow competition, only 50 some inches so far. You Canadian guys have all the luck.
.. I ride a somewhat modified Currie eZip Trailz with a 24V 15 AmpHr Ping LiFePO4 battery pack. The motor, controller, battery et al have been happy as clams so far (knock wood). But the cable to my back linear brake tends to freeze up.
.. After a few hours of leaving the bike out somewhere on my rounds I come back to find the brake cable frozen in its housing. Normal force on the brake lever won't move it. And if I use mundo force the caliper closes on the rim but the spring force wont pull the pads away when the lever is released. Stuck ON back brakes is a BAD thing. So I don't use the back brakes.
..Using front brakes alone on an icey road is not really advisable either. I can finese it unless a light changes on me unexpectadly and I have to make a quick stop. That can/has led to minor disaster.
..So my question is: How do you stop H20 from getting in the cable housing? I have taken the bike inside, thawed it out and "treated" the housing. My treatment is to use "lock deicer" to get the gunk out of the housing, WD40 as a further cleanser, a glob of light grease around the cable at the top ends of the two sections of housing.
..Ideally, when I apply the brakes, the glob should move away from the top of the housing with the cable and then when the cable is released it should go back down to seal the top of the cable. That seems to work for a while. But apparently after a while, water still finds its way in, and later on freezes, leading to a chance to polish the ice with my butt.

..Any ideas?

 

[monster]

you could get hydrualic brakes? oil doesn't freeze at 0*C.

 

[Tiberius]

Donob,

I suppose you really want the inside packed with grease to stop any water getting in. Silicone grease might be suitable as it doesn't mix with water and won't be removed by normal solvents.

Alternatively, this is just an idea, I haven't tried it myself, but...
It seems the problem is that the regular lubricant doesn't stop the water getting in, but also doesn't mix with it to act as anti freeze.

So why not try lubricating the cable with some of the water soluble lubricant that you can get for threading cables in conduit? I think you can also get smaller quantities for, er, domestic purposes from various stores.

Nick

 

[dogman dan]

Alcholol. I'd be carrying some vodka riding in those conditions. Pouring some down the cable may thaw the frozen cable out on the road.

But seriously this time... You need to upgrade the cable housing to keep water out better. If the bike, like many, has lots of little runs of cable housing and straight runs with no housing, mabye an unbroken run of cable might work for you. Try to seal up any points of entry for water. Is it getting into the top of the cable at the handle or is the freeze up happening at the bottom?

Mabye you can tape up or caulk shut the area where the brake noodle meets the cable housing, and do something similar to seal the rubber boot on the noodle between the noodle and the clamp at the end of the cable. the rubber boot could be packed with a light grease to displace water getting in.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Its quite possible that humidity from your warm indoors is getting moisture into the cable sleeves, but....

An additional problem that might be making it worse "may" be that the metal ends on the cable sleeves are shrinking in the severe cold so much that they are choking the cable. Just a thought...

You are a tougher man than me...the weather there is colder than my ex-wife's heart.

 

[neoplasticity]

you can put lubricant through the entire cable housing and then it wont freeze.

http://bicycletutor.com/lube-brake-shift-cables/

 

[Dingo2024]

heres an idea...Ive ran these for a couple of years now in the UK on my mtb-excellent...not sure what they are like to get at your end though

http://www.middleburn.co.uk/access_cableoilers.php

 

[torker]

Yea you got bigger kahunas than me.. I think the single run of cable and some kind of low temp grease is the best, short of hydraulic brakes. Not sure what you can do with the caliper/pads sticking. Of course my answer would be the car when it is this cold Spinning magnets what part of Ks are you? Been 15 deg. here all morning.

 

[donob08]

..Thanks for all the ideas. I've decided to put the bike by the woodstove for a couple of days and use four wheels. That really shrinks my macho image. I may have been the only one who saw it anyway.

..During the couple of days while the whole bike gets really dry inside I think I'm going to shop for new cable shields and cables, hopefully the ones with teflon linings. Dingo, I really like those cable oiler ports but haven't found them here. I may run shields even in the now unshielded lengths of cable and stuff it all with the best low temp, water managing lubricant I can find.

..I never forsaw this problem. I'm not sure there is such a thing as hydraulic linear brakes, but I'll look for next year. I can't use disc brakes because of the left side motor drive. Who knows, maybe by next year I'll have a different eBike with a new set of challenges. I really like the idea of biking year round and my wife like what it does for my 'almost fit' silver sneaker physique.

..thanks to all, Don

 

[torker]

Oh sorry I thought you had disc. Hey, Is the Blaze recumbent on your sig/ profile the Walmart bike? If not, what is it?

 

[Dingo2024]

after a bit of digging around....here are the US dealers for Middleburn (the cable oilers) if anyone is interested

USA
MTB Tandems Inc 3180 Deercreek Drive · Canton · GA 30114
tel: +1 678-445-0711
www.mtbtandems.com sales@mtbtandems.com
Rotec Cycles 16897 Copper Mountain Rd · Monroe · WA 98272
tel: +1 425 220 8663
www.roteccycles.com
Speedway Cycles 2600 Spenard · Anchorage · AK 99503
tel: +1 907-222-1967
www.speedwaycyclesak.com

Ian

 

[Zoot Katz]

Ammonia can be squirted on the globs of accumulated ice.
http://www.icebike.org/Equipment/testedonice.htm

 

[Jeremy Harris]

What you need to do is get friendly with someone who works on military aircraft. We used to use some very low freezing point grease, that looked a bit like jelly, to keep aircraft control cables from freezing. The stuff displaces water and lasts a fair while between applications. I don't know the trade name for the stuff, because it came in plain tubes with just a military stock number.

I'm sure this stuff has to be available commercially, if you know where to look. To use it, you dry the cable right out and inject the anti freeze grease into the cable using a pressurised cable greaser, just a seal that fits tightly around the inner and outer at one end and squirts grease in under high pressure.

Jeremy

 

[Zoot Katz]

What you need to do is get friendly with someone who works on military aircraft. We used to use some very low freezing point grease, that looked a bit like jelly, to keep aircraft control cables from freezing. The stuff displaces water and lasts a fair while between applications. I don't know the trade name for the stuff, because it came in plain tubes with just a military stock number.

I'm sure this stuff has to be available commercially, if you know where to look. To use it, you dry the cable right out and inject the anti freeze grease into the cable using a pressurised cable greaser, just a seal that fits tightly around the inner and outer at one end and squirts grease in under high pressure.

Jeremy

My AME friend gave me a partial tube of Dow Corning Mollykote 33 grease.
It's an extreme low temperature bearing grease.
I used it for lubing the rubber motors of my free-flight models because it doesn't attack rubber or fling off and lasts a long time.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Torker, I am by Ft Riley, 2 hours west of KC on Interstate-70. My new job is driving a snow-plow on the streets and spreading a mix of salt/sand.

Living in snow and cold is new to me and I'm trying to learn fast. I changed my engine oil to synthetic recently, purchased an engine block heater I will install soon. I put a cardboard bra on the front of the radiator to block 90% of the cold air. I warm up my truck 10 minutes before driving (the radiator coolant warms the automatic transmission fluid). I am contemplating some type of starter-battery warmer.

When I park, I put the windshield wipers up in the air like antennas so they dont freeze to the glass (put them down when the cabin is warmed up). I bought cables for the rear tires (and will shop this summer for a cheap/used 4WD). Keep my fuel topped off and carry a shovel. I clean all my windows and mirrors before I drive (damn, this is getting complex!)

Bought a balaclava to cover my head and neck, but early-morning work demanded that I also buy a "bank-robber" 3-hole mask so my nose-tip doesn't get frostbite. I shovel light-fluffy snow off the entire driveway as soon as it falls, because if I drive over it even once, the tracks become hard ice. I bought $140 boots with an OSHA-approved composite-toe, because the steel-toed boots made my toes painfully cold even with wool socks (will use the steel-toes in the warm 8 months a year)

Work is only 5 miles away, but I am a wimp and have been getting there on 4 wheels...

 

[lifepo4ever]

hey what kind of brake system you use ? it look like this : http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/883779/8343815/0/1237451744/bicycle_brake_sets.jpg sorry but this system it so weak you wasting your time to fix the problem

or like this : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Linear_pull_bicycle_brake_highlighted.jpg

if you have the cantilever brake you just need to move the spring of the cantilever at the 3dr hole so you have more strength also you better change the curving metal tube. there a tube inside and he probably worn , replace tube and cable also in a bike shop its the best place if you not sure what you doing , normaly just a good anti-rust spray will last longer in the cable tube and its not corrosive like the normal grease

I use this product for about 1 week now and I still have lubrication on my chain : http://www.corrosionfree.com/automotive.htm

I will update weekly to my post tosee if the product still there for now this product is fantastic

 

[monster]

the temperature here in england has dropped to -10*C and i have experienced freeze-ups of: hub motor, derailleur, brake cables. i'm really pleased i up graded to rear hydralic barkes before the temperature dropped. i only did it because there was so much spongeyness in the old cable. every day my derailleur freezes up now. you need your rear brakes in snow and ice. when the front wheel hits an ice rut wall and defracts you off at an angle you need a rear brake that you can slam-on to straighten up. i've been riding my bike like an off road motor cycle, sticking my legs out for balance. so much for stealth, but i thing that the police etc have their hands full with real emergencys.

 

[lifepo4ever]

hey monster me too I rode it like a motorcycle in the snow the thing I found is more you going fast in the deep snow more it easy to stay straight position so I rode at 50kph in 4inch of snow daily , I thing because at this speed the wheel float on the snow that why it more easy

I will post some videos soon

 

[rkosiorek]

Hey

..I ride 15 or so miles a day in this glorious weather near Rochester, NY. The residents here are feeling bad because we are are third in the state's snow competition, only 50 some inches so far. You Canadian guys have all the luck.

<snip>

..Any ideas?

I live in Belleville, Ontario. 20 odd miles due north of you on the other side of lake Ontario. from what i can see so far this year you guys got a lot more snow and have colder weather than we do. personally i hate the snow. it should snow Dec. 24th and disappear by Jan 2nd until the next Christmas.

best thing for the bike is to park it indoors. at least take the battery pack inside. batteries of any chemistry should never be charged at sub-zero temperatures.

to lubricate the cables and the chain it is necessary to do it in 2 steps. 1st use a penetrating oil and a brush. work it in a bit. this is to get some lubrication and rust protection down into the insides of the cable or chain. 2nd. wipe on a thin layer of Molly-33 Medium grease. you have to disassemble the brake cables to do this. you have to lube the entire length of the cable.

the cable you'll only need to do once a year. the chain on the other hand will likely need to be done every couple of weeks. the grease attracts dirt and salt and washing that off removes the lubrication.

rick


rick

 

[lifepo4ever]

I will never let's my baby sleep outside !!! with all the time and effort I put on my ebike humidity is very bad for electronics also!

 

[moore.sean]

You need something waxy on each end of the cable housing. Beeswax works, chap stick works.

 

[lifepo4ever]

look my bike there some useful tips : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSf2McRAETc


I made this video today not 2008 I have to erase that from the camera good one for 20$

 

[donob08]

Hi lifepo

My brakes are the linear style like your http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ighted.jpg .

My bike doesn't sleep outdoors either. When I'm running around town I bring the battery in, if my stay is more than an hour.

I now have new casings with teflon linings and a new noodle. I have my ammonia ready Katz. Dingo, thanks, I'll look up those lube ports. Last Two days no No problem but it has been a balmy mid 20 degree F.

thanks, Don