zombies, safe rooms and hoarding

andrew.box

100 W
Joined
Apr 15, 2011
Messages
154
Location
kansas city, USA
As you may know from recent posts, I toasted my lipo battery pack last week by accidentally leaving it connected to the controller (controller was turned off but it still drained my 18S pack down to 2.5V). Also, I got a concussion playing laser tag in Branson MO last weekend and had to visit the ER to get the cut glued shut. That's the down side of things that have happened this month.

But on the upside, I made some incremental progress prepping for a SHTF scenario. Maybe it's just the male version of a nesting instinct, but I've had a lot of fun putting a few basic provisions in place to have ready in the event of some type of emergency event, not necessarily a zombie or nuclear apocalypse but even a major storm could knock out power and access to provisions for several days which would suck if you didn't have any plans for such a case.

A couple weeks ago I got my General HAM radio license. Last week I finished my 4 panel grid-tie solar installation (had to do pole mounts in the back yard due to city restrictions) and have begun setting up my Ham shack in the 'safe room', which is really just a fairly nice crawl space. It's well sealed from the outside and located centrally in the floor plan next to a concrete stairwell. This weekend I re-arranged things in there and installed an outlet box. Last night I dragged a big 100 AH 12V deep cycle in there to power the HF radio and will also set up an inverter eventually. I have a small 90W unit that does true sine wave but it's too small for much besides running a couple CF lights and chargins phones/laptops. A 600-1000W unit would be a good size. I need a beanbag for a throne next.

The solar panels use Enphase microenverters, which wouldn't be good for much if the grid went down, but the plan would be in the event if a failry long term grid failure to re-wire things to eliminate the microinverters and run 24VDC into the main breaker box using the existing 240VAC wiring (since it's already buried and in place) to charge some batteries. Some of the 110VAC circuits could be energized from an inverter, if desired.

My main weakness right now is water storage. I don't want to go totally crazy, but it would be nice to have at least 30-50 gallons of clean drinking water stored somewhere. I have about 15 gallons now and 2-3 months worth of food that's mostly dried bean/rice mixes, textured soy protein, dried milk and oatmeal. Some people have gotten food grade 55 gallon drums cheap for water storage, but they're kind of big. Several smaller ~10 gallon containers would be ideal, I'll have to keep my eye out for something like this that's affordable.

I haven't seen it but apparently there's a National Geo TV show about this stuff called "preppers". I keep meaning to check it out, it'll probably just make me jealous though. Like when I hear about my mother in law's friend who bought up a bunch of the defunct missile silos out in western Kansas. He has his own personal fortress, the control panels for the camera turrets and main blast door still work, and has made tons of money fixing them up an selling them (like millions of dollars). It would be awesome to have something like that sitting on some acreage.

Who else has zombie apocalypses, safe rooms and hoarding on their mind?
 

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how could your controller drain the battery down if it was turned off?

what has provoked you into this state of paranoia? is there another end of the world scenario we haven't heard about yet?

you can store water in empty 1 gallon milk jugs. you can raise goats or cattle in the back yard and slaughter them after the holocaust has passed and you need food. chickens are easiest to raise, pigs will eat the human bodies left over in the street after the holocaust has passed too. plus they eat human shit too so that would help with sanitation if you end up living in the crawl space with them.

a generator is what most people think of first, but if you can get a propane tank then you would have propane for cooking and for powering the generator if you get a propane generator.
 
Ha ha... That's quite a setup you got there. My version of SHTF is 1 week without electricity. My solution is to have a full tank of gas so I can move to the next town temporarily. I too would like to know why you're doing this, if you don't mind sharing of course.
 
SamTexas said:
I too would like to know why you're doing this, if you don't mind sharing of course.


Because amazingly fragile western society falls on it's face if any one of the life-support machines that keep the artificial system working fail for more than a day or two.

Never hurts to not just be another of the helpless hungry mob if you don't have to be.
 
liveforphysics said:
Because amazingly fragile western society falls on it's face if any one of the life-support machines that keep the artificial system working fail for more than a day or two.

Never hurts to not just be another of the helpless hungry mob if you don't have to be.

Ok that sounds reasonable. So how about just hoarding some hard cold cash and maybe some gold.
 
hoard silver, not gold. my friend who is into end of the financial world scenarios believes that silver will be more fungible during the end of the world than gold. of course he has piles of it already. he has been doing this for over a decade so he has made more than anybody invested in stocks.
 
liveforphysics said:
SamTexas said:
I too would like to know why you're doing this, if you don't mind sharing of course.

Because amazingly fragile western society falls on it's face if any one of the life-support machines that keep the artificial system working fail for more than a day or two.

Never hurts to not just be another of the helpless hungry mob if you don't have to be.

+1 and if you all die of starvation, just think that the only people left on this continent will be the mormons :lol:
We are close to living in a second great depression, and will if the double dip recession hits. There is no indication that the USA's debt will ever be paid off. No indication that any of the wars we've started will result in anything other than making new enemies in the middle east. No indication that the Eurozone will spring back or pay it's debt either. If we continue on this path, your federal reserve debt notes ( also known as the US dollar ) will be worth diddly squat. What do you do if you're not prepared for that?

Now if you are one of those folks who are still optimistic about the future of our country and the western world as a whole, then natural disasters and a change in climate are legitimate things to be concerned about. Then if shit hits the fan that way on a large scale.. you are still screwed because government won't have the resources to help the entire country all at once, or even multiple states.. nonetheless it is your job to be an adult and prepare, because twiddling your thumbs for days waiting on government to toss you some scraps is not fun. FEMA camps are not fun either.
 
dnmun said:
hoard silver, not gold. my friend who is into end of the financial world scenarios believes that silver will be more fungible during the end of the world than gold.
I hope it will work out for your friend. But my understanding and personal experiences have always been: American dollars is #1, gold is #2. There is no #3.
Of course if something happens to our country (USA), then it would be another story,
 
Hell yeah man, good call, I definitely need my ham gear on solar for the zombie apocalypse.
 
SamTexas said:
liveforphysics said:
Because amazingly fragile western society falls on it's face if any one of the life-support machines that keep the artificial system working fail for more than a day or two.

Never hurts to not just be another of the helpless hungry mob if you don't have to be.

Ok that sounds reasonable. So how about just hoarding some hard cold cash and maybe some gold.


Even in modern times in the USA, situations arise where all the gold or cash in the world couldn't fill your belly in a satisfying manor, nor make you dry and warm. Investing a few hundred bucks in non-perishable food, clean drinking water, your own energy harvesting system and conversion equipment (solar cells or a small wind turbine, a battery, an inverter, a power supply etc) doesn't seem like a bad idea at all IMHO. Kinda like fire insurance or something, you hope you would never have to use it and it's all just waste of time and money...but in the event you do need it, you're sure going to be glad you've got it rather than just joining the migrating mob of unprepared folks trying to make it somewhere to get a meal.


It's really interesting if you look at a place like NYC, the number of trucks coming in with food everyday, and trucks hauling out garbage etc. The system has about 1-2 days of float-room before grocery store shelves are empty, restaurants kitchens are out, etc. Modern big cities are operated like a just-in-time factory system, any link in the chain of supply gets broken for whatever reason, and things can get ugly in a hurry.


To your kit of supplies, I would add some water purification tablets (which taste awful, but a tiny jar of them could provide hundreds of gallons of safe to drink water if worse came to worse). I would stock-up on 1gal jugs of distilled water rather than a large container of water. A large container is too easy to get contaminated and spoil, and the smaller jugs can be drank directly from easily, and the jugs can be re-purposed once empty. I would also make a medical kit that includes a variety of anti-bacterial drugs, medical wound stitching kit or medical stapler and super glue, and a good medical trauma treatment book.
 
SamTexas said:
dnmun said:
hoard silver, not gold. my friend who is into end of the financial world scenarios believes that silver will be more fungible during the end of the world than gold.
I hope it will work out for your friend. But my understanding and personal experiences have always been: American dollars is #1, gold is #2. There is no #3.
Of course if something happens to our country (USA), then it would be another story,

American dollar: valuable for a bit over 200 years.
Average length of a government / country's lifespan: about 200 years.

Gold / Silver: valuable since 4,000BC, possibly before.

Your dollar is not backed by anything other than confidence. If our country collapses, your dollars do not convert into gold, they do not convert into some other currency - they only convert into toilet paper. If your money is numbers in a computer, it is worth even less, you can't even wipe your ass with it! Your dollars are worth something only as long as the government exists and says they are. It's that nebulous. If you want a recent example of this - find out what an east German mark is worth today.

http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf

Look at the historical dollar to gold conversion.
 
Why? Just in case. :wink:

Seriously though, while I admittedly consume more post-apocalyptic material in the form of novels, video games and documentaries than is probably healthy, I do think it's wise for every person or family to undertake some basic emergency preparedness. If it gets to the point of negatively impacting family or work etc, then it might be going too far, but if the Shizzle does hit the Fan I'd rather be more prepared than less prepared.

In the same way that modern Americans tend to put very little money away in savings compared with previous generations, some other important concepts of preparedness that used to be common knowledge and practice seem to be getting away from us. Recent events like Sandy, Katrina, Issac and dare I mention it but 9/11 should be a reminder that taking a few simple steps like storing a few days food and water and keeping a weather radio on hand is just good sense. Granted, I've gone a little farther than that, but it's been a slow process and hasn't negatively effected my ability to live a normal life 98% of the rest of the time when I'm not thinking about this stuff. It's been a matter of buying/doing something every few weeks until I got to this point.

Suggested reading:

The Long Emergency by James Howard Kunstler - leans heavily towards worst-case-scenario gloom and doom related to a post peak oil situation but a good read none the less.

Renewal (series) by JF Perkins - Fictional novella series in which a family and small group of friends survives a breakdown of society/technology, the cause of which is mostly undisclosed but involves EMPs disrupting the power grid and frying electronics. A really decent read, characters are well developed and the story is a page turner. It's pretty realistic for the most part without any gaping plot holes.

Wool by Hugh Howey - More dystopian than post-apoclyptic but a really good read. It's about people living in 'silos' underground. I really enjoyed this book and should mention that I've read everything Hugh Howey has written and like it all a lot. Especially Wool, the Mollie Fyde series and Halfway Home. You can get them on amazon for pretty cheap.

Fallout 3 - This is a game for PC, PS3 and Xbox, it's awesome. It's like a post-apocalyptic version of Skyrim.
 
SamTexas said:
dnmun said:
hoard silver, not gold. my friend who is into end of the financial world scenarios believes that silver will be more fungible during the end of the world than gold.
I hope it will work out for your friend. But my understanding and personal experiences have always been: American dollars is #1, gold is #2. There is no #3.
Of course if something happens to our country (USA), then it would be another story,


American dollars are fiat currency with no value other than that most people will trade things for it, because most other folks will trade things for it. All it takes to destroy a fiat currency is for the faith that someone else will accept it for something to be shaken.

The biggest trading partner is China (this is true for roughly the whole world). If Ju Hintao wanted to turn US dollars into worthless scraps of paper, it would merely take a simply morning call to the press to say China is no longer going to accept US currency as payment for trade debts/payments to China. Before the phone was even hung-up the US dollar would be collapsed in the world market. Your best use of cash savings would be tinder for lighting fires, or perhaps toilet paper or napkins as needed etc. However, that would be more useful than your bank savings, which would be nothing more than meaningless arrangements of 010101011001's on someone else's computer.


Gold holds value because it's a fairly solid representation of work/effort to extract it from the ground. Silver holds value for similar reasons, and is definitely easier to spend (do you really want to be shaving off a half-gram of gold from a bar and then weighing it out and checking it's purity to buy a tank of gas?). However, having a giant pile of gold or silver doesn't help you much in a disaster that leaves nobody having food or clean water.
 
liveforphysics said:
Gold holds value because it's a fairly solid representation of work/effort to extract it from the ground. Silver holds value for similar reasons, and is definitely easier to spend (do you really want to be shaving off a half-gram of gold from a bar and then weighing it out and checking it's purity to buy a tank of gas?). However, having a giant pile of gold or silver doesn't help you much in a disaster that leaves nobody having food or clean water.

True - what gold and silver are good for though, is a vessel for transferring wealth from one currency to another. Gold is valuable everywhere. If you bet on gold, you are optimistic that there will be a civilized society still in existence who will take it ;)..
 
Don't forget about other various odds and ends that could be traded. Personally, I'll find nearly infinite value in coffee if it ever becomes unavailable. Also, bullets probably aren't bad trading stock except they're heavy.
 
Gold has bubbles like everything else of predominantly speculative value, and it's seriously in a bubble phase at the moment. If you doubt it, go look at the prices in Jan 1980 versus Sep 1999 (and remember to adjust for inflation). Ouch.

Lately, gold has been dithering around the inflation-adjusted price levels we were seeing in 1980. Just sayin'.
 
Lebowski said:
as with most buildings in Switzerland, I have a nuclear bomb shelter in the basement :D
Hmmm, a great dual use for that could be as a laagering cellar... during peacetime of course :D
And maybe not too bad in the afterweld cos people always love good beer!

<slurp>, KF
 
Its not pessimism, its just realism. This country has had it soft for the last 100 years or so. No invasions, no wars on home turf, few major disasters.

I believe we'll be ok for the next 100 years or so.

But I'm an optimistic realist. I realize that society is fragile, and it could all come apart tomorrow. I'd give us odds of 1 in 5 of a SHTF scenario happening in my lifetime. But I carry insurance for things with even lower odds than that. Stocking up on food, water, and ammo are my insurance policy against SHTF scenarios.

Yeah, Ammo. gold may have value eventually, but its Fiat money too. It has no intrinsic value, and when people are starving and trying to fight off the gangs of thugs that want to steal what little food you have (Katrina aftermath, for example), Ammo will be the currency of choice. You don't even need to own a gun.

Stock up on bottled water, Its good for many years, and most people drink it anyways. Then you rotate it out. keep 100 gallons worth, and replace what you drink normally

The rest of my prepping is knowledge. Knowing how to hunt. how to forage. how to purify and filter water in the wild. Knowing how to prep and dehydrate food for long term storage. Knowing how to make a cooking fire that consumes it's own smoke. knowing how to close a wound, set a bone, sanitize an abrasion.
 
Prepare the right way.

prepare.jpg
 
Here is the crown jewel of my zombie apocalypse preparedness goodies.

gun.jpg
 
So after World War II, American troops occupying Europe and Japan discovered a new to them but time honored way to make money. All the wealthy and some no so wealthy people who'd hoarded gold in anticipation of the war were pulling it out and seeking to buy. Trading it in the stores worked well at first, but eventually the storekeepers who were getting gold at half price and then LESS THAN HALF PRICE were getting stuck in need for hard currency to stock their shelves. So American troops were getting their paychecks and saying "Tellya whatem' gonna do. . . ."

The gold reached home with a note to the wife, relative, etc.: "Get this sold and use some of the money to send me some AMERICAN soap, some AMERICAN cigarettes. . . ." When it arrived they'd rush to the store to trade for more gold. This is how it goes in just the sort of financial disaster the gold has been saved for, it becomes relatively valueless, only hanging on because people can't believe it's all THAT worthless.

I'll bet there's all sorts of the studies such as I've read posted online, I've just never been able to find them. But there's quite a list of items that went much of the 20th century that gained value quicker than gold or silver, soap being high on that list. Soap having value in any depressed economic situation. I just figure your best bet to get through the continuing Obamic collapse is soap, for the increasingly messy days to come.
 
I just figure your best bet to get through the continuing Obamic collapse is soap, for the increasingly messy days to come.

Ivory or Dove. Come to think about it, my favorite is Irish Spring.
 
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