zombies, safe rooms and hoarding

[Farfle]

Maybe the not-so precious but oh so useful metals? A few thousand in aluminum, steel and bulk fasteners doesn't take up too much room in a back yard, and would be a heck of a lot more useful than gold or silver when it hits the fan.

 

[John in CR]

Food, guns, bullets, and enough electricity to make ice if you want will be worth far more than gold or silver. Then there's my motor and battery stash. hehehe.

Here we have a year-long growing season and plenty of rainfall for drinking water as long as you have storage enough to bridge dry season. I'd suggest high on anyone's list be the ability to get yourself somewhere that the basics of survival are fairly easy, which definitely includes far away from big population centers...unless going cannibal is on your list.

 

[TylerDurden]

"The weak are meat, and the strong do eat." ― David Mitchell, Cloud Atlas.

 

[neptronix]

Here we have a year-long growing season and plenty of rainfall for drinking water as long as you have storage enough to bridge dry season. I'd suggest high on anyone's list be the ability to get yourself somewhere that the basics of survival are fairly easy, which definitely includes far away from big population centers...unless going cannibal is on your list.

John, i've been thinking about that more and more lately. My best thinking tells me to go to southern Oregon, where water is never a problem, population is low and thus competition for resources is not so bad. If you have nothing better to do, there are some gold panning areas as well, and you're never too far from the beach. Plenty of critters to shoot and eat out in the woods, and growing can be done most of the season.

But being closer to the equator line would be a lot easier. But tell me about a few things:

1) Do you have a problem with malaria or other airborne diseases out that way? I hear that the constant good temps and humidity around the equator line help bugs survive a little too well ( at least they are pretty much all dead out here in North America by winter.. )

2) I'm 30. Could i expect to ( if i spoke proper spanish ) find a job to make a decent living on out there? or are foreigners frowned upon?

3) How much better / affordable is health care out there than here? :lol: ( anywhere is better than the USA, i am sure.. )

4) How's the crime situation? any trouble from Columbia or Nicaragua?

 

[spinningmagnets]

There are so many aspects of making a societal collapse less stressful, so I'll just a couple things I feel might be useful to consider. If you don't want your neighbors/friends/relatives to think your an "end-times" nutcase, just tell them that the things you've read about Hurricane Sandy has encouraged you to take just a couple reasonable precautions.

After Hurricane Andrew in Florida, there were roving bands of looters and also packs of dogs that had "gone wild" after just a few days of hunger. A small .22-caliber is cheap and home-owners who had only one of these convinced looters to "move on" to some other pile...that was all it took. I recommend the Ruger 22/45 pistol with a belt holster at a minimum. I also recommend getting a Ruger 5-shot snub-nose .357 revolver, and a short Mossberg 12-Ga pump shotgun that can use the common-sized shells and also the 3-inch shells. Get the shotgun a shoulder-sling and a side-saddle shell holder. Carry two BRI-slugs, a dove-shot shell, and the rest are double-aught buck-shot (nine .30-cal pellets).

If you need an absolute bargain $100 rifle, you can get a new Russian/Asian military surplus Moisin-Nagant 7.62mm (.30-cal) bolt-action rifle that is the equivalent of a .302 deer-rifle. Better than nothing.

Lights.
Its good to have a lot of choices, but...after an earthquake/tornado/hurricane...all the different flashlights and batteries at the local stores are all sold out, just a fact of life. I have chosen 12V and AA batteries as my interface for charging my LED lights/cell-phone/laptop. My plan is to have a solar-PV panel charge a 12V deep-cycle battery whenever there is sunlight. The less sunlight you have, the bigger a PV-panel/deep-cycle battery you will need. (I'm saving for a PV-panel now). When my 12V cordless-drill NiCD batteries died (after many years), I got an 18V lithium drill, and I took the 12V drill and gutted one of the batteries and attached alligator clamps so it will attach to a 12V car battery.

When there is no sun, I can charge with my car or a DIY generator made from a lawnmower and a car alternator. The DIY brackets to mate a lawnmower with a car alternator is self-explanatory, but I need to add that the mower blade acts as the flywheel. When you remove the blade and attach the pulley, you need to add a heavy disc of some type, or leave the blade in and bend the tips up to clear the new belt.

I've bought a couple AA-NiMH chargers that charge 4-cells each (I use Sanyo Eneloop AA's). I specifically chose chargers that have a 12V input, that I can charge off the house current with a small and cheap 120VAC-to-12VDC adapter. I bought the $20 Coleman 4-cell AA LED lantern that telescopes. I also got their similar (but larger) four D-cell LED lantern. I like them both. I have several one-cell AA pocket LED flashlights. Exercise caution, not all of them will work with 1.2V NiMH's.

My digital camera and tornado warning radio both use AAs...Every new year I swap-in 8 or so 9V batteries in the smoke-detectors and Carbon-Monoxide-detectors. I'm going to order a couple 9V pocket LED flashlights (cheap) just because I have a pile of 9Vs that still have 80% of their charge.

The rich movie director James Cameron bought over 2,600 acres in New Zealand...

 

[Sancho's Horse]

I live in Muncie. If there were some breakdown in social order, or major disaster, it will be the one day I feel really smart for being here. My chinese wife could not believe all the ducks, geese, so many rabbits they are considered pests, food...just laying around. I haven't put a lot of thought into theses scenarios, because I don't really need to. There are things I have done which protect me in most situations. I know how to grow mushrooms, brew beer, distill alcohol, hunt, forage, and I have several fruit and nut trees on acreage which is just nice to have. I am going to rent my current on campus house out in the long term, and build a house on the reservoir here. That, and a water purifier pretty much takes care of the issue. As far as protection goes, I agree with spinningmagnets, a .22 250 or a .223 is the way to go, the ammo is cheap (on the .223), long distance, deadly for small game and even larger in the right hands, but you need to know how to use it (spend 3-7 years learning how to use it). A revolver is also a good choice. In reality though, in close quarters you can kill or disable a person with nearly any object. I can't imagine a scenario where I would need an AK, but I know people with arsenals. People who like me and would seek me out in these situations, but I typically avoid. I am planning on entering a power purchase agreement with some local schools, to put solar panels on some of my land/shop (it has some special use deeded into it). I am going to build a shop out of intermodal shipping containers, due to their 35,000+ lb corner load bearing capacity. I have several 4x8' sheets of steel laying around. Nothing says to a zombie to just move along more than having everything boarded up with sheets of steel. I like natural gas, a few cannisters and you are in business. One of these days, I may build a small natural gas generator. I also want to someday make a small sterling engine. I think this stuff has more value than gold in a protracted situation, and in everyday enjoyment of life.

So...everyday life...I choose beer, lake, fresh delicious food
Zombie apocalypse...I choose beer, lake, fresh delicious food

 

[Lebowski]

Here is the crown jewel of my zombie apocalypse preparedness goodies.

pffft, piss-ant little gun. I'll post some pictures of my hardware later

 

[Lebowski]

I know how to grow mushrooms, brew beer, distill alcohol ....

The apocalypse is going to be quite a party

 

[Chalo]

Here is the crown jewel of my zombie apocalypse preparedness goodies.

Why didn't you buy a $59 Chinese gun to go with your $59 Chinese bike? You use the bike lots more often.

 

[John in CR]

Here we have a year-long growing season and plenty of rainfall for drinking water as long as you have storage enough to bridge dry season. I'd suggest high on anyone's list be the ability to get yourself somewhere that the basics of survival are fairly easy, which definitely includes far away from big population centers...unless going cannibal is on your list.

John, i've been thinking about that more and more lately. My best thinking tells me to go to southern Oregon, where water is never a problem, population is low and thus competition for resources is not so bad. If you have nothing better to do, there are some gold panning areas as well, and you're never too far from the beach. Plenty of critters to shoot and eat out in the woods, and growing can be done most of the season.

But being closer to the equator line would be a lot easier. But tell me about a few things:

1) Do you have a problem with malaria or other airborne diseases out that way? I hear that the constant good temps and humidity around the equator line help bugs survive a little too well ( at least they are pretty much all dead out here in North America by winter.. )

2) I'm 30. Could i expect to ( if i spoke proper spanish ) find a job to make a decent living on out there? or are foreigners frowned upon?

3) How much better / affordable is health care out there than here? :lol: ( anywhere is better than the USA, i am sure.. )

4) How's the crime situation? any trouble from Columbia or Nicaragua?

I live in the central valley at 1000m, so a bit less concern about the mosquito borne illnesses. It was really sweet when we lived at 1500m, but my family whined all the time about it being "freezing" there. It is the tropics so if you have entomophobia, you should pass unless you're trying to desensitize yourself.

Income-wise I'd say find, start, and grow your own business no matter where you are in the world. There's little security anymore in a paycheck from a business owned by someone else. I'm the wrong person to ask about the job market, since the last time I looked for one was thru the campus recruiting office back in '82. I'm sure the pay would be lower, but the cost of living can be much lower.

There's a real national health care system (medical and dental) as opposed to the ridiculous thing they're trying to call national health care in the US. There's a parallel private system that's quite affordable. The public system is incredible for kids with Childrens' Hospital competitive with anywhere in the world. The private system works better than in the US because you eliminate the scams of insurance and lawyers. Plus you can take ownership of your own health care without being blocked at every turn, so it's possible to eliminate the inefficiencies. eg You can actually go get your tests at the lab first, and then go to the doctor with the lab results in hand. We went the private route for the birth of our son to avoid the overcrowded public maternity ward, which cost $800 for the hospital (a special the Catholic hospital ran for up front payment and a no complications birth with a single overnight stay) and $150 for her OB-Gyn.

Major dental work or plastic surgery is so much cheaper here that a lot of people fly in to include a vacation with their procedures and still save money over doing the work stateside. Lawyers and the obscene malpractice insurance prices they cause are the major cause of the price differential.

Regarding crime, we live in a metropolitan area of over 1 million, so there's crime, worse in some areas than others, though it's petty theft that's more likely to affect you. As a naive newcomer, you'd be a target for getting scammed so don't invest in anything or buy anything expensive until you've spent plenty of time here.

John

 

[nicobie]

Decent tools and the skills to use them will get me through bad times. First things I'd make would be simple guns and gunpowder.

 

[cal3thousand]

This is what you want for emergency water in the range you are looking for:


http://www.amazon.com/waterBOB-Emergency-Drinking-Water-Storage/dp/B001AXLUX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1353533186&sr=8-2&keywords=water+bladder

 

[liveforphysics]

This is what you want for emergency water in the range you are looking for:


http://www.amazon.com/waterBOB-Emergency-Drinking-Water-Storage/dp/B001AXLUX2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1353533186&sr=8-2&keywords=water+bladder

Storing a large volume of water for a long period to stay drinkable has many more challenges than a container. Storing you water in single large containers IMHO is a big fail, as anything not being sterile or contaminating the vessel when you put it away in storage will spoil the water after sitting for years. 100 water jugs sterile sealed with distilled water will keep a very long time, and if your water supply takes some physical trauma, you only lose the jugs that were effected rather than the whole bulk. If you need to transport water, having it in 800lbs sacks that can't support themselves also doesn't do you much good, where individual 1gal water jugs can easily be transported. When you empty the jug, you've still got a handy portable container for liquids (gasoline or lamp oil or various chemicals can be stored indefinitely in HDPE water jugs). If you have to make a trip to a water source to fill, 1gal water jugs with handles can be strung together on rope and 1 person can carry quite a few, and easily walk down to a difficult access water source to fill them one at a time as well (and then drop a water purification pellet into each one, which are generally metered amounts for 1 gal of water per pill).

 

[dnmun]

you can store water in the plastic trash bags that so many people use to put their garbage in. you cannot move it but it will hold the water and you can tie the top closed and it will sit that way until you need it later. just gotta put it in a place where it won't be punctured. you can carry water in ziplock sandwitch bags too.

i don't have much garbage so i just use bread bags for my garbage so i don't have those big bags but that is how i would save water in the bathtub if it came to that point. then fill the tub with water around them.

 

[Kingfish]

Water can be kept sanitized by passing it through a UV light tube or by bubbling O3 (which can be created by the UV light tube). Or – you can shift the pH of water for long-term storage and then convert back as required.

Once when backpacking I ran out of water. Man that was a bad scene but we made it back and I vowed never to go through that again. From then on I carried a quart of water and a compact filter-pump. That method worked without fail since. Except for the time when I got a flat tire on the road trip to California 2011; I didn’t have the pump with me and it was a long hike to the reservoir; major dehydration that day. To conclude: Portable filtration had merit if there’s handy access to water.

I do not know how to filter radioactive water. I suppose gene-therapy using cockroach DNA might prove useful. But then at that point – the quality of life surely would be less than worth it. Better to dig down deep and avoid the whole thing, or go off-planet.

Luminescent and scurrying for cover, KF

 

[liveforphysics]

Water can be kept sanitized by passing it through a UV light tube or by bubbling O3 (which can be created by the UV light tube). Or – you can shift the pH of water for long-term storage and then convert back as required.

Both of those options are great for weeks or months, but over years they will fail most plastic containment. In my reefkeeping hobby I used O3 generators to raise oxidation-reduction potential in the water (on a controller so it wouldn't go too high). The "Ozone safe" tubing would only last about a year at a time, and any skimmer you were adding it to directly as a water/ozone reaction chamber became a sacrificial piece of equipment.

UV isn't too bad, many plastics will endure it for an acceptably long period of time, but you've either gotta have active circulation to flow it through the UV radiating passage, or have some very powerful UV lighting to keep the whole tank dead.

Either way you're spending electricity, money, maintenance, and it's an active system so you can have failure modes.

Lots of factory sterilized sealed 1gal jugs. It's about $75 per 100gal of easily transportable storage that makes it damn hard to lose all your storage from a single point failure.

 

[Kingfish]

Agreed with you Luke; plastic is not good for long-term as it also breathes and can harbor bacteria.

Oxidation is a big problem in brewing. Fermenting in plastic buckets is so flawed and wrong; glass is best for those applications. Stainless is good – but it can have issues too depending on the alloy and Iron & Chromate content, and CIP. Ceramic can be quite good, but the mortar can be affected by pH. In breweries, they use specially formulated concrete that is more resistant to acidic beer-making. Probably the best natural container for water is limestone; it’s already pH-balanced, contains calcium – which is great for making Guinness Dry Stout, and can be acid-adjusted to neutral using any of the common 5 natural organic acids.

Suddenly I am thirsting for “a creamy Blonde in a tall black dress”, KF :lol:

 

[salty9]

A root cellar would be a good addition for survivalists or for those living in tornado alley (The lower 48 now). Root cellars are good for fruit, vegetable and arms storage and as storm shelters. A seed safe with area specific seeds should also be on survivalists must have list.

 

[SamTexas]

Wines get better with age, right?

 

[Chalo]

Oxidation is a big problem in brewing. Fermenting in plastic buckets is so flawed and wrong; glass is best for those applications.

Depends on what you're brewing, doesn't it?

What I ferment takes about a week to finish, and it doesn't have to be subtle and perfect to proceed to the next step. I use yeast that's fast enough to outrun any competition. Plastic buckets work great for that. I can have half a dozen buckets working under my kitchen table for a very small expense in equipment and materials. They throw off so much CO2 that I can just leave the lids sitting there and not even have to snap them down. Nothing flawed and wrong about that, even if it isn't snob-friendly.

The following step does require some care and discrimination.

 

[salty9]

The following step does require some care and discrimination.

And discretion?

 

[Kingfish]

Oxidation is a big problem in brewing. Fermenting in plastic buckets is so flawed and wrong; glass is best for those applications.

Depends on what you're brewing, doesn't it?

Any oxidation is bad. Strong ales, like English Old Ale and Barelywine do well with aging to mellow the sharpness, about 3 years. Same with Imperial anything; lay it down for a while to improve it. Old ales gain from slight oxidation, producing the "sherry" tones, but that's a far cry from leaving a Bud out to warm up, or brewing with canned extracts - which are already flawed out of the can. Fermenting in a plastic bucket just makes it worse to create that "homebrewy" twang ~yuk! :lol:

If you really want to make a difference in your brewing, create a full mash, use a small amount of Melanoidin malt which is oxygen-scavenging, oxicaps when bottling, and for pete's sake - don't splash anywhere in the process! :wink: The only time you introduce O2 is initializing the Yeast Starter, and when adding same Yeast Starter (now having 4+X more cell count) to new beer. Yeast is both Aerobic and Anaerobic; it will consume the O2 for energy and reproduction via budding, but when that source runs out it will switch to glucose, fructose, maltose, sucrose, maltotetrios in that order first (mono- then disaccharides, and tri-s after that...) until the food runs out or the % of alcohol rises above cell tolerance.

So, as a rule - the little bit of oxygen that seeps into old strong corked/capped ale is acceptable if it is pleasurable and not distracting. Any other beer and it's a flaw.

Hmmm, jones'n for a Skull Splitter

Or Sierra Nevada Bigfoot!

I wonder if zombies can eat us if we're pickled through and through?

~KF

 

[Sancho's Horse]

Kingfish - good to see the garden wall. I had never thought of limestone. I have no problem getting ahold of that. Plenty of that around my neck of the woods. Perhaps I will investigate to kick it up a notch in later artisan crafting years.

I use the classics. Glass carboy for beer, copper for the still.

Chalo - I have seen several beers made in plastic. One guy used what he called the "balls to the wall" method. He would take it to maximum alcohol content, and save a special brew to bring the flavor. It was beer made in overdrive, and his little flavor method made it actually better than some of the other guys attempts. Definitely efficient on the speed end, and he could control the flavor a little better. Don't use the plastic for too long, though. Those little scratches harbor the bacteria.

Why do people store a bunch of water? I don't get it. Maybe 5 gallons, 10, maybe 20 if it helps you sleep. But... some attempt to store a big volume of water is what I call a learning exercise. If things are ever that bad, you will need to secure a source. I have two gallons under the sink. I guess I am a ballsy survivalist. A lot of knowledge is the best thing though. If anything ever were to happen, I know people are already figuring me into their hunkerdown plans. Assemble Voltron kind of thing is the best defense.

 

[Chalo]

Don't use the plastic for too long, though. Those little scratches harbor the bacteria.

My end run around microbes in my buckets is to dump the mash in boiling hot, then snap the lid on tight for a few hours while it cools to blood temperature. If there were any microbes in it before that, there aren't afterwards. Then I pitch my superyeast, install the lid and airlock and stand back.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

My friend used a titration method of flavoring, which gave some pretty good control over the final product. He also seemed to learn a lot more about the different components of a beer faster than the traditionalists. He could make lots of small batches of his flavor savor mashes, get more variety of ingredients with smaller batch costs, and try lots more combinations per brew cycle. I was always willing to lend a hand (or mouth I guess) to his decisions on ingredients. I argued for this learning method against the traditionalists, so I always got first dibs on tasting his combinations. Not a bad way to learn, but traditions usually have merit for a reason.

I had to give a report on pthalates. Rachel Carson silent spring kind of thing. I am a little wary about levels of heated plastic we are all experiencing. I try to use glass as much as I can, because the research seems to be pretty convincing (if the politics can be removed). I don't see a real good alternative, but it is so ever-present, I just avoid it as often as possible.

I hoard processes, and metal. Is it a guy thing? Or is there something wrong with me?