EIG 020B battery pack

Ok, I have recently found out that I am one of the few members that have these cells. So I thought I would do a thread on the basics I have for them and possibly try to answer any questions people might have for them. I don't have much test equipment other than some of my builds, some CAs, and some volt meters. But if there is a test that someone wants done, and you can describe how to do it, I will be happy to do it. I am also willing to buy some more test equipment that might help to test these out if it isn't too much money. I don't want to be spending hundreds of dollars just one one piece of equipment for one test. But if it is reasonable, I might buy it for future tests as well. So, here we go.
One of the most common question I get is, where did you get them. Unfortunately, I got them from one of the members here in the for sale section. He was selling a whole kit with motor, controller, batteries, throttle, charger, etc. At the time I was only interested in getting the motor and the controller, everything else was just gravy.....I didn't realize I was getting such a good deal on batts. I ended up getting 2 22s packs in the deal. They are 20ah pouches.
The batts I got have hard metal boxes with them, but I'm pretty sure these are re-purposed parts. But they do work fairly well for the intended purpose. There is a little extra space but it is pretty close to a perfect fit.



Here is how they connect the the rear of the pack. There are 3 strips that all the plastic plates bolt through to keep it together in the back. Unfortunately, the strips are only 24 holes, so I'm limited to a 23s pack with the top plate in place to keep the compression on the pouches. In the future I might look into having new, longer strips made if I decide to go past 23s.


Here is one 22s stack from the front. On the top in the center you can see the end of a long bolt that has a nut on the top to keep the front of the stack compressed.


This is a view of the top of the pack to show how the front of the top tray is secured in place, and the neg termination.


Here is the negative cable. It is a brass bar with the bolt holes in it that is soldered to an 8awg wire.


This is another view of the connections with the top tray removed.


Here is a view of the underside of the top tray. This keeps pressure on the whole pack.


These are the pouches that I got.


These are the copper angles that are welded to the tabs.


They are sort of tack welded on, but it looks almost like it was some sort of press weld.


This is the top side of one of the trays that holds ea pouch. Kinda hard to see the details of the tray, but I can try to get a better shot with different lighting if someone wants really good detailed views.

The specs of the cells are:
Length: 216mm excluding tabs
Width: 130mm
Thickness: 7.2mm
Weight: approx 425g

Nominal voltage: 3.65v
Nominal capacity: 20ah

Recommended charge method: cc/cv
Max charge voltage: 4.15v
Recommended charge current: 0.5C current
Recommended voltage limit for discharge: 3.0v
Lower voltage limit for discharge: 2.5v
Maximum discharge current (continuous): Up to 5C
Maximum discharge current (peak): 10C

Jay,

These cells are awesome. I actually have 111 of them myself that I picked up from a buddy. Only put about 15 cycles on them so far, but the energy density out of them is awesome. I've torn down the first bike they were in and am getting ready to but them in a R6 (22s5p with agni 95R and alltrax). Once I actually used 96Ah out 100Ah in my pack before which got me 101miles on a single charge Resting voltage was 77.1V (3.5V/cell). This ride used 7.9kWh according to my CA.

I believe the single line weld is a laser weld on the copper tab. The other one is resistive I believe.

Let me know if you are interested in selling these cells ever as I would love to expand my pack!
FYI your title should be 020"B" not "8".

PM me Jay if you want some additional specs/information on these cells

Ah, yes, you are right. I was looking at the printing on the pouch and just assumed it was an 8, but after looking at it closer, it is indeed a B. Thanks for pointing that out.

That's cool that you also got these. 111? Nice. I only got 44 of them. I seeing as I have so many projects and not that many batteries, I doubt that I will sell these cells individually. They are definitely going to go into one of my projects. If you want to sell yours let me know. :lol: :lol: :lol: j/k.

What was the first bike that you had these in? You got a thread on it? That R6 sounds like it is going to be pretty sweet. I had a Hurricane 600 that I had converted a long time ago with an agni 95R, kelly controller, and 48v of SLAs. When these showed up I did a really quick mock up and installed them in place of the SLAs in a 22s2p setup. Got the bike going 65mph and promptly tore it all apart. The battery trays were really make shift and I didn't want to push my luck too far with them. Recently I put them in the 9C powered race E-bicycle build I did for the Grange race. Only ran one pack at a time at 22s1p.

If you already have some of the information on these cells, I don't mind you jumping in if there were any questions. I just put this post up because a few people had been asking about them.

I dont have a thread on ES, but I do have one on El Moto. http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php/1359-Nutshock-V1.5ish-the-build
I will try to keep a thread on here when I start the R6.

Have fun with these batteries. But seriously, I would actually buy all of them if you have any trouble finding a good use for them.
(just calling dibs that's all) 8) :lol: :wink:

I have seen a report that pushes these cells to 12.5C for 2 sec periods throughout the DOD. Forget where the report is but here are the numbers.

V_open A DOD Eff % R_mOhm V_2sec W W/kg
4.12 250 0 80.8 3.16 3.33 833 1850
3.98 250 10 81.4 2.96 3.24 810 1800
3.88 250 20 80.9 2.96 3.14 785 1744
3.78 250 30 81 2.88 3.06 765 1700
3.72 250 40 80.1 2.96 2.98 745 1655
3.67 250 50 79 3.08 2.9 725 1611
3.63 250 60 78.2 3.16 2.84 710 1578
3.59 250 70 76.3 3.4 2.74 685 1522
3.54 100 80 89.8 3.6 3.18 318 706
3.48 100 90 85.1 5.2 2.96 296 658

I have more data, but don't really want to post it publicly unless there is particular question it can answer.

Damn, I want some of those too :?
EIG would never reply to my requests :x

Nuts&Volts, what size rear sprocket did you use on that 600 Katana? I have a 600 Katana that I'm going to convert. I got a big sprocket like the one I used on the Hurricane build, but it didn't fit in the Katana swingarm.

That is a hell of a nice pack Jay. Keep it. Enjoy it.

Don't tell him to keep it Luke! I wants all the EIG!! but ya these batteries are amazing and should last me for the next 5-8 years easy. Just want 2kWh more of them

Jay it is a 60 tooth. The wheel wasnt all the way back, but I think another guy uses a 65 (http://www.evalbum.com/2978). I didnt want to push it too much but I will try to get a few more teeth (63-66) on the R6.

-Kyle

So Luke... Any way you can utilise potential influence through involvement with Zero to get some retail/distribution happening for these sweet, sweet NMC cells? If i am currently up to date, unless your an OEM looking for thousands/millions of units for a specific project, EIG arent interested at the moment....?

Epic group buy. Make it happen

Count me in for 100+

Nuts&Volts said:

Count me in for 100+

Click to expand...

100 for me too at $.50/wh or less, only 40 otherwise.

John in CR said:

Nuts&Volts said:

Count me in for 100+

Click to expand...

100 for me too at $.50/wh or less, only 40 otherwise.

Click to expand...

Agreed ^^^ I suppose I should clarify that I want about 50, but know of another project that would be interested in cells if EIG decides to make our dreams come true at a reasonable price

I like the compact format - and higher voltage to boot. What's that - over 150 Wh per kg? Pretty freaking sweet.

I imagine any efforts to terminate these turds would require spot-welding / ultrasonic welding / laser welding / thermonuclear fusion welding... Seems clamping is good, but not sure if it's so good longer term.

Oh yeah, count me in if there is an epic group buy too I'll take 120 of them.

Thanks for the pics! These show that I was pretty close in what I thought they must be doing with the cell holders, based on the few pics I have been able to find of them. I'd described it here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=497544#p497544

and the only major thing that's different is that in the other pics I had seen, the busbars were going at an angle from pos to neg/etc, but instead it looks like they go straight across, with the cell tabs going in opposite directions instead of both the same. I wonder which one is "better", or if it matters?

Either way, I think something like these trays/busbars and welded-on tab angles would be the ideal way to mount up all those pouch A123 cells people are picking up. Even other pouch cells could be mounted in this manner, like the ones JonesCG has.

Luke, yeah, I'm planning on keeping them. Well, I'm planning on building with them, and if someone buys the build, then......

Kyle, I tried a 72 tooth on the katana with the wheel all the way back and it hit the swing arm. The katana has a really abrupt turn in on the swing arm that I haven't had problems with on any of my other builds. I will try it again with the 60 tooth and see if I can get that build finished.

AW, yeah, I had seen your description and that is convinced me to do this post and take all the pics. I really like how these packs' tabs are bent in opposite directions. I think it is a very efficient, straight forward design.



Hmmm, group buy. I guess it wouldn't hurt to contact them to see how many cells it would take to get their attention. Maybe writting a few letters asking for different amounts of cells. "Hey, I'm interested in getting 2000 of your cells." See at what QTY the respond.

count me in with 40 (if they are \leq 50$ per cell)

I have 80 cells of C020, Its Nominal capacity is 20Ah and maximum discharge current 10C for 10 Sec
my question is what if i force it to deliver 15C for 10 Sec ?

Most likely..
More voltage sag
More heat generated
shorter pack life ( less cycles)
+ possible damage ??