Identifying Crystalyte Hub Motor Kit from yardsale

I recently got a Crystalyte Hub Motor Kit from someone who told me he got it from a yard sale but he couldn't tell me anything about it's power requirements/limits or if it was designed for the front or rear wheel. So far I've bought one 12V 18A used battery but I don't want to buy any more until I know what I'm dealing with here. Ideally I'd like all the batteries to be the 18A variety (in series of coarse) if the kit can handle it. I looked online as much as I could but was unable to narrow it down past the point that it may be the Crystalyte 400 series so I took some pics including the inside of the controller that I'm attaching here. On a bit of a separate and less important note I am also a bit curious as to what the extra free connection on the controller is for.

400 series. Tiny controller, but it has 100v caps, so my guess is that it can take 72v. So small I thought at first it was the brushed motor, but I see halls wires. Must be lower power, 15 or 20 amps. Try it on 36v first.

Known as the quietest motor out there. Nice find! Run it on 36-72v, up to 1500w with no problems. No telling which winding it is, they were out there at fast, medium, and slow versions. Also some weird two rpm versions.

That extra connector, the black and red one, is the battery input wire. I don't see any other extra one.

Thanks for the info. Would it be risky to start it out on 18A if it turned out to be a 15A controller (I can get really good prices on strong used batteries around here)? Is the voltage that it can handle determined by the controller, the motor or both? There's an extra unused 3 pin input/connector on the circuit board (second from the last on the bottom left corner of the second two pics). That's what I meant when I asked about the extra connection. Is there a way to determine whether this hub motor kit was intended for the front wheel or back (I included a pic of the other side of the hub for this question)?

BTW the whole thing only cost me $13.32 plus the guy through in 2 16" rear (trike?) rims for $6.66 more (they measure 16" but they say FEMCO 20x1.75). He also offered to throw in a front rim of the same size for $6.66 more but I said I didn't need it. He said he had got the two rear to use in conjunction with the electric one on a recumbent trike he had planned on building but never got around to. In case you're wondering where he came up with $6.66 no I wasn't making a deal with the devil (and at that price I could see why you might think that) I'm just converting over to dollars from a much more logical and rounded number in my local currency.


Don't know how it is on your monitors but on mine I have to either zoom way out on the page or view image in new tab to see the full pics cause of their large size. Thought I'd warn you guys just in case you thought I had taken ridiculously off center angles or that I had simply over cropped.

You’re confusing battery capacity Ah with system Amps. You could use 100Ah battery and if it’s a 15A system it will only draw 15A. You’ll need 3qty 12V batteries in series to attempt to power this system.

Looks like a 400 CL front motor. The rims should be measured, since they may be 406 (20"). If 305 they are 16", 349-355 would be European so called 16" (really 17.5 ")
otherDoc

Thanks so much for clearing up that amp hour vs system amps thing for me. The guy that sold it to me said he thought it was a 24v system but it didn't really seem that he knew what he was talking about. Maybe I'll try it at 24v first but I do have a 36v battery pack for my Currie Tricruiser that I may connect to it via some alligator clips or something just to test it out. I read that these DD motors are hard to pedal unpowered so naturally I'm trying to connect it to the highest AH battery I can so I don't wind up stuck somewhere having to pedal that sucker old school especially since I'm pretty weak due to some health problems (which is why I'm doing this in the first place). If this is a front motor I better start shopping for wrenches and hose clamps (to make a homemade torque arm of coarse).

The rim for the hub motor is measures 22.75" which I believe would be measured as a 26" rim (in official rim measurement categories). The smaller two with the axles measure 16.75" but I believe would be 20" rims (in official rim measurement categories).

100v caps in that controller. That implies the controller could possibly handle up to 72v. But there are better motors for 72v use.

More likely though, it might be able to run nice on anything from 24v to 48v. That's more typical of older stuff.

Run it on 36v, and see how you like it. If you like it a lot, then perhaps invest in a higher power, 48v controller for it.
That motor will run really nice on 48v and 20-30 amps.

But quite possibly, you will have all you want or need with 36v, on that original controller.

I found 408 written on it (the hub) so now the only question remaining would be the specs of the controller (seems like it's probably a really old/early model [doesn't even have an on switch]) and the use of that extra 3 pin connector receptacle on the controller board.

DudeeBalls said:

I found 408 written on it (the hub) so now the only question remaining would be the specs of the controller (seems like it's probably a really old/early model [doesn't even have an on switch]) and the use of that extra 3 pin connector receptacle on the controller board.

Click to expand...

The 408 is a fairly slow wind. Performance can be checked on the simulator at ebikes.ca , but on 36 volts it's good for a top end of 30kph with what looks to me like a 26" wheel.

Forget about the lead batteries as soon as you can. Used and almost free are good enough to test it out.

If you end up wanting good performance from that little motor, then 72V+ and get it laced into a smaller wheel and you're good to go.

why not fix your pictures so we can see it? use the VGA setting on your camera. if it has two wires to the hub then it is a brushed motor.

The 408 is a great motor. Super quiet, though square wave controllers make them growl a little under load. I have one with 10k+ miles on it running up to 3000 watts through it. It's well abused but still in service. you don't want to put that much power into a front wheel.

The controller looks like the early analog Clyte controllers, probably a 20 amp 6FET unit. The old Analog controllers aren't programmable, but had amazingly smooth throttle curves.

To see those pics, make your screen size smaller, really big ones, I have to go to 50%. In explorer, its the gear symbol on the upper right corner.

408 is the slower wind, but it will wail on higher voltages. I'd go 48v with it. Should have at least 25 mph then.

As long as you don't think 48v will damage that old model controller I'll try it out. I still wonder what that open (unoccupied) 3-pin connection/slot receptacle is for (it's in the second 2 pics second from the last connection on the left bottom of the circuit board [the third pin of the connection is blocked partially in one of the pics and fully in the other but it's there]). I'm thinking ebrake or maybe but less likely reverse or cruise control. Does anyone know how to identify whether my 408 is meant as a back wheel or front (if it's for the back I guess I'll have to get the cassette on it if there's space).

Another way to see the pics in their full glory is to right click on them and click view image in new tab.

Here's some pics of the side that's opposite to the one that has a simple axle/bolt with a wire coming out of the base. I wonder if this could help someone identify if it's a rear hub or front and whichever it may be in which order I'm supposed to put on the 3 different washer family parts (locking washer, washer and square thing). Also what type of washers and in what order should I use on the regular side with the plain axle/bolt that only has a wire at it's base rather than odd shapes in the base's metal).

Its a front hub for sure.

Split washer first, to fill the little cup on the fork. Then the tab washer, tab goes into the fork notch, then the regular washer.

On the other side, same, unless there is no tab washer.

delete all those pictures and replace them with VGA format. people should not be posting up 8megapixel images here since nobody can see them anyway.

That's a front motor for sure. A rear would be off set, with a 135mm spacing on the axle, and room for a 7 speed cluster of gears. it would have a threaded cover on one side. just random trivia, that threaded cover is the same one they used for the disk brake option, if you installed it on the cable side of the motor. So if you want disk brakes, find an old threaded cover.

That washer set is interesting, but I'd highly suggest a real torque arm, or two, for any front mounted motor. The Clyte can make some serious torque. More than the dropouts of a fork can withstand.

I haven't looked at the inside of that model controller in 8 years, but if my memory isn't totally shot, The left most connector is the halls. The 2 white wire connector is the reverse switch connector. The 3 pin male next to it was the e brake cut off. The 3 pin female is the throttle. That last 2 pin I am fogy on. that might have been the power switch, but shouldn't be used. it wasn't an "Off" switch, more of a standby switch. The controller still ate power when switched off.

Thanks I had suspected it was for an ebrake. If that two white wire one next to it is for reverse and it does have wires going to it shouldn't there be an external reverse switch that they're going to (there doesn't seem to be but I don't really need to know since I don't really have much need for reverse)? I have been considering putting a small power switch inline between the battery and controller to prevent the battery from being drained while parked (perhaps the mild drain that it puts on the battery when stationary is intentional to protect sla batteries cause I read somewhere once that SLA's shouldn't be left idle neither draining nor charging). I'm greatly appreciative for the help in figuring out that it's a front wheel kit. Should I put torque arms on both sides (I think my GT bike is steel and it's very heavy compared to other bikes)? I'm thinking about asking a local metal smith to make me a torque arm. How thick should it/they be?

That little plate/washer looks like it might function like a rudimentary torque arm of sorts. The Komda foldable I bought on craiglist has one too except a little thicker and it folds around the back of the dropout (with the same type of plate mirroring it on the other side) to so it can give support on both sides of the dropout.

Can someone tell me the name of that 3-pin ebrake connector (so I can find the "male" version of it on ebay or amazon). I'm gonna buy some ebrakes and plan on redoing whatever connector they come with if I have to. Also any tips on determining the pin out.

On a slightly separate note I had this idea and I thought I'd run it by you guys I'm thinking that if that connection does turn out to be for the ebrakes I could connect a switch inline with the ebrake cable to turn off the bike while I'm not using it rather than having to disconnect the battery every time or having to find a crazy high amp/volt capacity DC switch or having to use a big master battery cut off. Mind you I don't even know how I'd do that and even if I could I don't know if the ebrake really shuts everything down or only cuts the power to the motor.

I think that's a 3 pin Molex connector on the board.


You can't shut the bike off with the brake cutoff. That just overrides the throttle to stop the bike. the controller is still powered up and using up your battery. the only way to truly turn the bike "off" is by disconnecting the battery

Thanx! Now just the pin out or a technique for identifying which pins should connect to which. On a separate note since the controller is probably 20-25 amps I'm hoping a 30A fuse on the battery will do that is unless the current sometimes peaks over 30A although even if it does I don't know if that would pose a problem for a 30A fuse. Should I fuse the neg or positive lead and would a 12 gauge wire for the battery or at least for the fuse holder be to thin for this setup (the Watt meter also uses 12awg but I bet I could open it and solder 10awg in it's place).

Would it be ok to buy a generic 2 wire (red & black) ebrake and use it for this controller even though it has a 3-pin ebrake connection? If so is there a safe way to determine which pins should go to which wires?

It should work. Measure voltage between each of the 3 pins on the controller. One will be teh same as the "5v" on the throttle, halls, etc. One will be ground. The last will be the brake input, probably near 5v, but it might be closer to ground.

Hook the 2 wires from the lever so one goes to teh signal, and the other goes to the wire with voltage opposite to that of the signal input.




BTW, on those other FEMCO wheels, they look exactly like the ones I have here (or used to, not sure) off of a "jogger's baby stroller" trike, for it's rear wheels. I had planned to use them as the front wheels of a little 'bent trike but never did build it (now riding a long delta, works better for hauling dogs and cargo).

Danka. I'll post any follow up questions if I need to once I have the break in hand.