megacycle
100 kW
Well you can't now say, that many qualified and experienced on this thread haven't warned about the inherent dangers with playing around with this gear.Matt Gruber said:
Be safe and good luck.
≤2000w 96V charger ~$5
- Thread starter DrkAngel
- Start date
Be safe and good luck.
DrkAngel
1 GW
DrkAngel said:
Thank You! ... spisska!spisska said:
Perfect example!!!
That is the problem with your "certainty"!
At sea level, with "normal" barometric pressure, water will boil at 100ºC.
However! ... Visit Denver Colorado! ... There, water boils at ~94.4ºC.
spisska - #1 Flat Earther
Stuck at sea level in good weather.
A comforting place to hide ... but more a dream world than a reality!
DrkAngel
1 GW
In space - water boils at 0ºCDrkAngel said:
Cousteau couldn't get water to boil at all in his "habitat".
Deep ocean thermal vents are as hot as 400ºC ... without boiling the water.
... but you get the idea ... hopefully?
The problem with relying on certainties is ... what happens to you ... when your certainties collapse ...
Sorry ...
bored! ... waiting on parts ... for many projects ...
DrkAngel
1 GW
Are you certain?Punx0r said:
Not true! ... unless you qualify, as "purified" or "pure water" ... I, wouldn't say "for certain" even then.
Salt water can exist at higher temperature and ...
In regards to a certain hydrothermal vent:
"In contrast to the approximately 2 °C ambient water temperature at these depths, water emerges from these vents at temperatures ranging from 60 to as high as 464 °C.[3][4]" - Link
Well, at least you are not claiming that water always boils at 100ºC.
999zip999
100 TW
Water boils in my vacum caster. I think at 27 ? at room temperature. Just how your blood would boil in space.
FWIW, I think that anyone that doesnt' know enough about something ought to be smart enough to know they probably shouldn't be messing around with it...but as we know, it's very common for humans to muck about with things they either know they shouldn't, or don't know anything about to know if they shoudl or shouldn't. 
But because they do that sort of thing, we end up with hazard and warning labels all over things these days, for things that ougth to be "obvious" but generally aren't. Like "don't stick your hand in the spinning lawnmower blade", and "don't let your baby stick it's head in the bucket of water", etc. People should know better, but they don't, because they havent' put any thought into it, and/or they don't know enough general info about something to draw any such conclusions about it without the warning.
(Perhaps you'd be surprised how often poeple can't connect the fact that the fast-spinning mower blade that can cut thru grass, weeds, sticks, dog toys, power cords, water hoses, lawn sprinklers, etc., could also cut thru their hands, fingers, and feet...until AFTER they wake up in the ER missing bits, and sometimes not even then..but I'm nto surprised, not anymore).
Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, most people in general *are* totally ignorant of it, and that extends to most ebikers as well.
Out of even just the members that have posted more than once here on ES, most have no real grasp of electrical concepts (as shown by the questions asked and lack of understanding even when answers are given). How many threads are there about people wanting to build a pack that is wired for parallel charge and series discharge *at the same time*?
There are many many more ebikers out there than those here on ES, and most of those just ride their bikes, and don't need to know how they work, so they don't learn. Most drivers of cars don't know anything about the mechanicals. Most people using electric lawnmowers or other electric appliances don't know anything about electricity, either, and don't want to.
Some people are afraid of anything electrical becuase they don't know about them, and some people are totally unafraid for the same reason.
But because they do that sort of thing, we end up with hazard and warning labels all over things these days, for things that ougth to be "obvious" but generally aren't. Like "don't stick your hand in the spinning lawnmower blade", and "don't let your baby stick it's head in the bucket of water", etc. People should know better, but they don't, because they havent' put any thought into it, and/or they don't know enough general info about something to draw any such conclusions about it without the warning.
(Perhaps you'd be surprised how often poeple can't connect the fact that the fast-spinning mower blade that can cut thru grass, weeds, sticks, dog toys, power cords, water hoses, lawn sprinklers, etc., could also cut thru their hands, fingers, and feet...until AFTER they wake up in the ER missing bits, and sometimes not even then..but I'm nto surprised, not anymore).
DrkAngel said:
Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, most people in general *are* totally ignorant of it, and that extends to most ebikers as well.
Out of even just the members that have posted more than once here on ES, most have no real grasp of electrical concepts (as shown by the questions asked and lack of understanding even when answers are given). How many threads are there about people wanting to build a pack that is wired for parallel charge and series discharge *at the same time*?
There are many many more ebikers out there than those here on ES, and most of those just ride their bikes, and don't need to know how they work, so they don't learn. Most drivers of cars don't know anything about the mechanicals. Most people using electric lawnmowers or other electric appliances don't know anything about electricity, either, and don't want to.
Some people are afraid of anything electrical becuase they don't know about them, and some people are totally unafraid for the same reason.
DrkAngel
1 GW
I guess I must concur that ignorance might run rampant ...amberwolf said:
Evidenced by 2 of my personal pet peeves.
!. "Can you charge it up by pedaling?" - Asked by nearly 50% of interested persons.
2. "Put a generator on the wheel and you could run forever!" - With the enthusiasm of "a little learning". - "Way too many!!!
So, I finally relented and added a warning as the prologue to the thread ...
WARNING! - DANGER!
There seems to be a cadre of ES member who feel most eBikers are totally ignorant of electricity and its dangers.
Unless you understand electricity, its theory and dangers ... do not read this thread!
But where can we draw the line on warnings?
24V+ systems?
Anything with a chain you can stick your fingers into?
Any eBike that can exceed pedal speed?
Should we regulate membership dependent on passing a knowledge-reasoning ability test?
I don't think you need to worry.
I'm building a diy 470v system its actually dangerous But I have put my finger and thumb from the same hand while its dry with no cuts across a live 105v charged 28s pack and did not feel it.
I have felt a 12v battery when my hands where wet on the other hand!
Life will get you no mater how hard you try to avoid it. But if people are dumb enough to try messing with something they should not be then they might wean them selves out from the population.
I'm building a diy 470v system its actually dangerous
But I have put my finger and thumb from the same hand while its dry with no cuts across a live 105v charged 28s pack and did not feel it.I have felt a 12v battery when my hands where wet on the other hand!
Life will get you no mater how hard you try to avoid it. But if people are dumb enough to try messing with something they should not be then they might wean them selves out from the population.
Great, fatalism as the answer to electrical safety...
The problem with "dumb" people messing with things they shouldn't is that they're generally lead to do so by bad information, such as that posted by DrkAngel in this thread. Left to their own ignorance they wouldn't come up with the dangerous idea themselves. The sarcastic pseudo-warnings obviously don't help.
The problem with "dumb" people messing with things they shouldn't is that they're generally lead to do so by bad information, such as that posted by DrkAngel in this thread. Left to their own ignorance they wouldn't come up with the dangerous idea themselves. The sarcastic pseudo-warnings obviously don't help.
How does a vague warning about the general danger of electricity help in this matter? "Guns are dangerous. Now, here's how to disable the safety on your gun and set it for a hair trigger - this is fine and safe as long as you aren't a complete moron".
This isn't about scoring points or winning a debate. Frankly, I'm bored of this. However, someone needs to challenge the publication of dangerous advice so that there is at least a warning message attached to it, that hopefully will get read by someone thinking about building this deathtrap.
This isn't about scoring points or winning a debate. Frankly, I'm bored of this. However, someone needs to challenge the publication of dangerous advice so that there is at least a warning message attached to it, that hopefully will get read by someone thinking about building this deathtrap.
DrkAngel
1 GW
I don't think it does, or any warning could.Punx0r said:
"Warnings" are so prevalent that they are usually ignored by most everyone ... except the most paranoid?
Most dangerous (to themselves?) are those who are sick and tired of warnings everywhere and on everything and view them as only being for complete idiots!
Your repetitive, long winded, non-specific warnings exemplify the type most intelligentsia would ignore as being the rantings of some paranoid!
I only posted up my "Warning" to placate the misguided do-gooders.
Those who might read and appreciate a specific warning ... typically don't need it.
Those who should read any warnings will typically ignore them anyways.
It should not be my responsibility to provide a full education in electric theory and practice every time I mention electricity!
Please phrase up your recommended warning message for approval.Punx0r said:
Best you keep it simple, short and to the point.
Your target audience would be the uneducated, simple minded or semi-literate?
The ultimate warning might be Don't be stupid!©
My point is guns are dangerous so before a friend hands me one he informs me what to do with it or I go find the info my self. Electricity is dangerous so I learnt to be careful. Part of that was learning what it can do and part was how to avoid it. Of course a simple warning should be on something you sell and it never hurts to warn people about the help you are giving them. But the world needs to be taught to learn for them self's we have gotten to far away from common sense so far to the point the government and rules are set out to protect the dummies from them self's.
megacycle
100 kW
It's a common 'duty of care' for a 'reasonable' person ( that is in our case, the person who has experience and knowledge of electricity) to warn of the inherent electrical shock dangers in this project.
There is no such thing as 'common sense' in law, where I'm from and many places, only the definition of 'reasonable' Here, it would be the possibility of someone being injured or killed by another's advice.
As an electrician, this is part of our training to be taught the basic laws which relate to our field of work.
There is no such thing as 'common sense' in law, where I'm from and many places, only the definition of 'reasonable' Here, it would be the possibility of someone being injured or killed by another's advice.
As an electrician, this is part of our training to be taught the basic laws which relate to our field of work.
DrkAngel
1 GW
Sorry if it seems like I am trying to aid natural selection in helping to thin the intellectually or educationally challenged from the "herd".
I'm just sick and tired of person after person after person saying there should be a warning ... yet no one offering what they consider to be an acceptable warning!
Maybe I'm just frustrated at "Warnings!"
Just reminded myself of the 6 big Kevlar impregnated warning stickers epoxied for 2 feet around the cord of a recent hair dryer purchase. (Even though it took 15 minutes of pulling, cutting, scraping and adhesive removal compound ... I don't remember reading beyond "Warning!" on any sticker.)
There could be the very real possibility of damaging the cord, plug or connections and creating actual danger by the necessitated methods of "Warning!" removal!
Tho ... maybe I did not read the "Warning"! (to) "Do not remove these Warning! stickers" sticker?
I'm just sick and tired of person after person after person saying there should be a warning ... yet no one offering what they consider to be an acceptable warning!
Maybe I'm just frustrated at "Warnings!"
Just reminded myself of the 6 big Kevlar impregnated warning stickers epoxied for 2 feet around the cord of a recent hair dryer purchase. (Even though it took 15 minutes of pulling, cutting, scraping and adhesive removal compound ... I don't remember reading beyond "Warning!" on any sticker.)
There could be the very real possibility of damaging the cord, plug or connections and creating actual danger by the necessitated methods of "Warning!" removal!
Tho ... maybe I did not read the "Warning"! (to) "Do not remove these Warning! stickers" sticker?
megacycle
100 kW
Your not trying to get a 'Darwin Award' by proxy are you :wink:DrkAngel said:
The big red warnings you've put on the thread are a good start.DrkAngel said:
Maybe then just to inform of the hazards and how to mitigate them-
1. Shock hazard- result injury or death- do not touch any exposed parts of this project while plugged in and ensure any capacitors are safely discharged.( if you've specified them, you might need a small precedure for this)
Young persons need to be supervised.
2. Arc hazard- Fire- ensure you have a connection lead long enough to disconnect the project from the mains safely and have an electrical fire extinguisher handy.
3. Small possibility of exploding parts- ensure you wear glasses when operating the project.
See there's not much to cover it really.
Depends on your politics too, but that might no save you if someone's hurt :?DrkAngel said:
I think I've been slighting injured by safety gear quite a few times, glasses bashed on nose, though saved my eyes have been saved a few times.
What you doing with a hair dryer? Have you got a permit for thatDrkAngel said:
DrkAngel
1 GW
Oops,megacycle said:What you doing with a hair dryer? Have you got a permit for thatDrkAngel said:
just remembered ... it was a halogen lamp.I buy hair driers at thrift stores and garage sales and use the corded GFCI for other projects.
megacycle
100 kW
They appear to look after you over there with the built in GFC, the old drop in the sink routine.DrkAngel said:
Down here they are normally in the switchboard connected to power points and lights and are only mandatory for homes from about 2000 and renovations/additions.
Don't think they are much use for this project, unless yours is inside an earthed metal box.
If you've just got it open on an insulated floor, main problem you'd have is a shock formed by you becoming part of the circuit instead of diverting a small current, through you to earth to trip a GFC.
