48V 6Ah Li-ion Water Kettle Battery with BMS Board, Charger

zukster

zukster

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402
Location
North Vancouver, BC, Canada
Has anyone tried one of these?

big-2011-10-21_3-24-19.JPG


I was going to build a 48V Konion Water bottle pack myself but I noticed this from ConhisMotor.com at 234 or after shipping 312. Maybe cheaper if you buy two. I was going to build one myself as I was having difficulty finding a water bottle pack greater than 36V previously. It uses the common Cell Size 18650 and says the cells are 2AH, so likely 2100 mAH LiMn 18650 cells? So at 39 cells, that works out to about 7 dollars a cell, but for something ready to go + charger + BMS. If cells turn out to be junk I can source some Konian 2100/2250's to stuff in instead.

Before comments come in, the discharge rates are fine for my KU63 bmsbattery.com controller and Cute 100 hub motor, and the low AH is fine for travel needs.

http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=279

Specification:

Battery Model 48V 6Ah
Nominal Capacity (AH) 6ah
Nominal Voltage (V) 48V
Source Resistance (mΩ）about 40
Cell Specification 3.7V 2AH
Cell Combination 3-parallel 13-series
Cell Size 18650
Cell Quantity (parallel*series) 39
Discharge Cutoff Voltage (V) 42 +/- 1V
Charge Cutoff Voltage (V) 54.6V
Rated Discharge Current (A) 12A
Instantaneous Maximum Discharge Current (A) 20A
Maximum Continuous Discharge Current (A) 12A
Maximum Continuous Charge Current (A) 5
Charge Mode CC/CV
Standard Charge Current (A) 2A
Charge Time under Standard Charge Current 3.6
Fast Charge Current (A) 5A
Charge Time under Fast Charge Current 1.5
Charge Temperature Range -20 - 60 ℃
Discharge Temperature Range -20 - 60 ℃
Battery Size Length: 400mm
Diameter: 102mm
Battery Net Weight 3kgs
Battery Gross Weight 4.5kgs　
 
but you would need three of them to equal one 48V15Ah ping pack and they would cost more and you would still have the problem of replacing them soon.

you should compare the weight of three of these to one ping pack to see which is more energy dense, imo.
 
dnmun said:
but you would need three of them to equal one 48V15Ah ping pack and they would cost more and you would still have the problem of replacing them soon. you should compare the weight of three of these to one ping pack to see which is more energy dense, imo.
Click to expand...

Aren't ping packs LiFePo4. That would make them less energy dense. Also, Ping does not do < 10AH. I only want 5 or 6AH to cut down on weight. I currently run Hoppyking LiPo, Method's LVC/HVC boards, and just buzzers sometimes. These water bottle LiMn packs appeal to me because the are more safe, include BMS and charger, and will be easy to charge for novice. I have people wanting me to build them KU63 Cute 100 bikes, but I won't give them LiPo packs.

If they do have crap cells I would try to find Sony Konion 2100's to use and that should last way longer. Anyone know where to get those? I think the Makita 18V packs use Konion 1600's - less dense.

PS: The capacitor you sent me to repair my controller is still doing fine :mrgreen:
 
The battery specs are impressive! If true, then LiMn cells are indeed used in that pack. My only question is: Since when does a battery seller downplayed its products? They would have said 6.3Ah (not 6.0Ah).
 
SamTexas said:
The battery specs are impressive! If true, then LiMn cells are indeed used in that pack. My only question is: Since when does a battery seller downplayed its products? They would have said 6.3Ah (not 6.0Ah).
Click to expand...

I was wondering about that. I'm going to order a couple. I'll let everyone know once I open one up - what's inside :?:
 
zukster said:
SamTexas said:
The battery specs are impressive! If true, then LiMn cells are indeed used in that pack. My only question is: Since when does a battery seller downplayed its products? They would have said 6.3Ah (not 6.0Ah).
Click to expand...

I was wondering about that. I'm going to order a couple. I'll let everyone know once I open one up - what's inside :?:
Click to expand...

Sure you want to that? I wouldn't. I would send the seller a question asking him if the cells used are indeed Sony LiMn 2100mAh? And if he will refund my money (including shipping) if it's not what he says. If he can't answer or won't guarantee full refund, then I already know the answer. Just another blatant exaggeration like the battery sold by one of the guy here. Chicago Electric?
 
SamTexas said:
Sure you want to that? I wouldn't. I would send the seller a question asking him if the cells used are indeed Sony LiMn 2100mAh? And if he will refund my money (including shipping) if it's not what he says. If he can't answer or won't guarantee full refund, then I already know the answer. Just another blatant exaggeration like the battery sold by one of the guy here. Chicago Electric?
Click to expand...

I'm not to worried about it. When Doc Bass gets some more used Mikita Konions tool packs that have 10 cells, and does the gracious service of of selling them to us for 10 bucks, I can reuse the BMS, charger, bottle cage, and mounting mechanism, then replace all 39 cells for 39 bucks. The 13 cell BMS they have is likely the OZ890 or bmsbattery.com smart BMS. I don't know of any others.

999zip999 said:
6Ah is a very small battery for an ebike.
Click to expand...

See 1st post.
 
SamTexas said:
Ok.

Just a head up: DrBass has never sold 2.1Ah Konion cells. In his own words:
Each cells should give you at least real usable 5Wh (80% DOD)
Click to expand...
So that's 1.35Ah or 4.05Ah for 3p.
Click to expand...

They're probably the ones that are 1500-1600 mAH, so for 3p that would be 4500-4800 mAH. So 4 AH sounds right since they're not new. That's still okay for my range. I have some Hobbyking Zippy 4AH packs I use for grabbing groceries, etc. I go 20km on them with peddling. Oh - my bikes are very light < 30lbs, and I'm 150 lbs. If I want more range I'll either take a spare bottle in a backpack or build a bottle/seatpost bag with more cells.

I'm pretty sure folks on the forum will soon find a source for the 2100's. Also note that on that German forum, the guys were saying that the newer 2250's were not as robust as the 2100's.
 
LOL... GIAZT ?

They just turned the N sideways in Giant to make Giazt :D
 
SamTexas said:
zukster said:
I was wondering about that. I'm going to order a couple. I'll let everyone know once I open one up - what's inside :?:
Click to expand...
It has been a few months now. So what's inside?
Click to expand...

Not since I got them. I will not need to open them until the batteries need replacing. I'm pretty sure I will find one of BMSbattery style smartBMS boards inside and the cheaper Chinese LiMN cells. I'll definitely let everyone know how the batteries work with routine use once my son starts school and takes it up a killer hill everyday. A hill that will drain the battery about half way. So this kind of daily use five days a week should reveal any cell weakness pretty quick.

I do wonder why they changed the 6AH to an 8AH rating now. Better cells now maybe...
 
Going on a year now for these on 2 bikes. My son and his friend have these going on about a year now with no problems. They are fairly water resistant too but I need to be out for a few hours in a real soaker too before I can comment on that more.
 
The 1st one was 18650s but the 2nd uses pouch's. Only 8 amp rated though, which makes having 48v seem a little pointless to me. It also carries a 16 amp maximum continuous, so I'm a but puzzled. Is it 8 or is it 16. I guess 8 with 16 killing them off too quickly.

I'm quite sure I could pack it with RC lipo and achieve 8Ah 48v with some work. I also thought I could chop one in half and sleeve the main body with a longer tube. Taking the tube to the plastic end fittings would make it an invisible bodge. I figured on easily getting 6s 5Ah 50X50X165 inside with gaps at all 4 sides for more cells. This is all a bit pie in the sky though. Quite sure is not sure enough. I would love to see somebody's efforts though. Or even here peoples thoughts on what might fit (RC lipo only, I need good power from this small space)
 
I was wondering how they could pack enough 18650s in to get 8AH. Pouch Lipo does explain it. I made my own waterbottle out of Konion 18650s from Makita tool packs and my 12S bottle is 12S3P for 4.5AH at best. Its only a bit smaller than the Conhis without BMS. The Conis at 48V and 8AH gives us enough battery life for what we need. They're a lot easier than making one yourself. It took me days to extract the 18650s, prepare them, and assemble the 12S pack. I have not added BMS yet either.

I was playing around with the idea of stuffing groups of square pouch Turnigy or Zippy's into a waterbottle. After much effort I gave up because it looked like I'd need to do about 2-3 stacks of batteries in groups of 4 to get any reasonable AH, and the wiring would be a nightmare.
 
This one looks good, doesn't seem available for retail yet though:

http://wpbattery.en.alibaba.com/product/1000379866-213328236/Latest_11_6Ah_48V_e_bike_water_kettle_battery.html

11.6Ah, 48v,

Maximum Continuous Discharge Current (A) 15A-20A
 
I wonder if that 11.6AH is accurate? or maybe they are using newer higher AH 18650 cells. The alibaba site says the battery has 13S4P 18650 cells, so that would mean per cell 11.6AH/4 equals appx 2.9AH per cell. That is higher than anything I was aware of about a year ago, which was about 2.2AH for the highest AH cells.

The two 8AH 48V Conhis Kettle batteries I deployed about 8 months ago are still running fine. One is used almost every day up a hill steep enough to almost fully deplete the battery, 5 days a week for use, since about Sept 1, 2013. The Conis site says the cells are 13S2P and that the cells are 4AH each. But I still have not had to open one up so I'm not sure what they are. Not likely 18650 but maybe some kind of Lipo.
 
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