4kW Vector Frame build

[DasDouble]

Hi my name is Elias and Im 16 years old from germany.

I want to build my own e-bike (45 km/h), based on the Vector version "Tornado" (http://www.vectorebike.com/bikes/tornado-4000w.html).

The problem is that Im not a pro and that this is also my first bike, Im building. So I´m going to ask you guys to help me..
I made a list of all parts of the bike and when Im finnish building it I will drive with it until the official version of the Tornado is coming out. Then, probably, Im going to sell the self build version because of the german law to drive legal and buy the official Tornado from the Vector team.

My list:

• 
  -Tires: 26” front double wall rim; 24” rear double wall rim UPDATE: Going to buy a 24 bycicle rim front and for rear a 17"x1,6" moto-rim
  -Brakes: Tektro Dorado e-brakes
  -Fork: FOX 40 RC2 UPDATE: DNM USD-8
  -Rear suspension: DNM, 220mm travel with 650lbs coil UPDATE: RCP-3
  -Handlebar: I don´t know something for ~50€
  -Some light
  -Throttle with 3 modi-speed-switch and an extra button
  -Moto seat (by Vector)
  -Chain, Crancset, 7 speed bycicle transmission
  -Kickstand

Now we are coming to the electronics, and interesting stuff:

• -BMS: Adaptto, from Vector / Artur
  -DC-DC: ?
  -Controller: Mini-E (also made by adaptto) / buyed from Vector, The OLD Mini-E
  -Frame: Vector white with carbon black in the middle
  -Motor: Crystalyte 4080 update: QS 205 3000w V3 (from Vector / Artur)(H50)
  -Battery: (By Vector-Team): 84v 20Ah 22s 1.6 kWH 10kg/22lb
  -Charger

-Cheers, Elias

 

[Drunkskunk]

looks like a decent start. I would erase Tektro from your list and add Avid, Hayes, Shimano, Hope, or almost any other brand.

The 26"/24" combo is interesting, but as long as you're going 24" in the rear, a 24" front would allow for a wider, better gripping front tire.

DNM make a functional rear shock. However, using it with the front Fox 40 is like serving instant microwave potatoes with Filet Mignon. And of the two shocks, the rear shock is the one that will most effect the way the bike feels going down the road. Go for a Fox rear shock. Or even a Marzocchi. It will be money well spent.

For bars, Truvativ and Easton both make some great bars in your budget. Both brands have lines with many versions of the bars. The strongest being the heaviest and cheapest, then going up in price as the bars get lighter. For an ebike, stronger is better, so the cheap bars are the ones you'll want.

 

[DasDouble]

looks like a decent start. I would erase Tektro from your list and add Avid, Hayes, Shimano, Hope, or almost any other brand.

The 26"/24" combo is interesting, but as long as you're going 24" in the rear, a 24" front would allow for a wider, better gripping front tire.

DNM make a functional rear shock. However, using it with the front Fox 40 is like serving instant microwave potatoes with Filet Mignon. And of the two shocks, the rear shock is the one that will most effect the way the bike feels going down the road. Go for a Fox rear shock. Or even a Marzocchi. It will be money well spent.

For bars, Truvativ and Easton both make some great bars in your budget. Both brands have lines with many versions of the bars. The strongest being the heaviest and cheapest, then going up in price as the bars get lighter. For an ebike, stronger is better, so the cheap bars are the ones you'll want.

Wow thank you for your reply. But do you think I missed something on the list? Or is this everything you need? Im not shure if I forgot something. Why not the Tektro? Artur from Vector is selling his new 12kW bike also with Tektro double e-twin brakes. ?

Elias

 

[TotalConfusion]

On 22s 92 volts hot of the charger your bike will be doing 110kph or 65 mph and will overheat in 7.3 minutes, Have you thought about running a Mxus 4T or 5T as this motor will hold up a little better and will run for ever at 80kph or 50mph in a 5T and a 4T will overheat in 33 minutes at 100kph or 60mph. I think the 4T would do you very well or switch to the H4060 like mine for around 75 kph without overheating.

 

[DasDouble]

On 22s 92 volts hot of the charger your bike will be doing 110kph or 65 mph and will overheat in 7.3 minutes, Have you thought about running a Mxus 4T or 5T as this motor will hold up a little better and will run for ever at 80kph or 50mph in a 5T and a 4T will overheat in 33 minutes at 100kph or 60mph. I think the 4T would do you very well or switch to the H4060 like mine for around 75 kph without overheating.

what does the hH4060 stand for? I thought the 4080 is better..?

I was meaning the HS (Speed not torqu) 4080..

 

[Ohbse]

I would highly recommend you go with the MXUS 3000w motor, it's more capable, better quality and cheaper than crystalyte.

I run 26" front and 24" rear and it works well. I also run a very similar battery and a mini-e and run daily with 6.8kw, works great!

You will definitely not require 7 speed freewheel. Reality on a bike like this is pedals are primarily for show. At high speeds you contribute virtually nothing, low speeds effort is tremendous without electrical assist. I used to run multiple speeds but now just run a 14 tooth single speed with single front chain ring. I do not miss the other speeds.

 

[DasDouble]

I would highly recommend you go with the MXUS 3000w motor, it's more capable, better quality and cheaper than crystalyte.

I run 26" front and 24" rear and it works well. I also run a very similar battery and a mini-e and run daily with 6.8kw, works great!

You will definitely not require 7 speed freewheel. Reality on a bike like this is pedals are primarily for show. At high speeds you contribute virtually nothing, low speeds effort is tremendous without electrical assist. I used to run multiple speeds but now just run a 14 tooth single speed with single front chain ring. I do not miss the other speeds.

What does it mean this 3000w motor? Is 3000 Watt the max. power the motor can take without getting dammage? Where can I buy it (for germany)? I can´t find a usefull link for it.

 

[markz]

I bought mine (a single order) from the company named MXUS in China.
Its 3kw(nominal) and 6kw(max) however it can do more wattage for sure with modifications.

E.S. member Teslanv sells these motors, check out his signature line for his online stores website.
You can choose from different KV, the highest being 3T, 4T, 5T and 6T (lowest) I dont think theres a 7T.
The general consensus is that all these motors are exactly the same.
There is no, higher speed. There is no, higher torque. They all produce the same amount.
The 4T is good, because you dont have to go to 24S or higher, you can stick to around 18 or 20S battery (which E.S. icecube57 mentions is the sweet spot - IIRC) Its all a matter of what you want. If you are buying everything new, then you can figure out what you want from your desired top speed and your desired terrain.

I went with a 4T MXUS 3000W V2 (4504 on ebikes.ca simulator) and a 18fet Lyen modified controller with programming cable. Im now trying to configure a used LiFePO4 a123 m1a setup into a 48V or 60V pack and 4P. I have a downhill rim 26" from ebikes.ca, however I realize now that I should have went with a motorbike rim in the 22-24" category to change the gearing.

I am now trying to figure out if I should install a 5, 6 or 7 speed shifter/der. My 5 gives too much of a gap between the freewheel and the cover which has been scratched, so I will try out a used 6 speed next and see how it goes. Then buy new freewheel, chain and shifter. My current shifter is grip shift 7speed and I just bought a X7 3spd front for $5 but the geometery of the thumb to shift is weird and awkward, but it leaves your other fingers available to brake. I've always preffered rapid-fire shifters however I couldnt find any at the community bike store today. I had X5's on my crosstrail bike, never liked the geometry on them either. I think the SRAM X are not good me.

With my other steel frame I bought, its a MINT 1995'ish Specialized Rockhopper that I plan to do a Lightning Rods mid-drive setup on for offroad riding.
Then convert my mxus to a fat rear tire, which the frame isnt made for much more then road/casual trail riding.

 

[frankrs]

Hi Elias

May i ask where you live in Germany.?
I am from The Netherlands.
Maybe it is something that you come to visit me and thry my ebike.
It will be finished in a couple of weeks.
My setup is an giant anthem with 20s 10p samsung 25R and a mxus v2 motor with an adaptto mini-e with the adaptto bms and a eltek flatpack(2000 watt) charger
At the rear i use a freewheel of 12 teeth and on the front a blade of 46 teeth.

Greetz Frank

 

[DasDouble]

Hi Elias

May i ask where you live in Germany.?
I am from The Netherlands.
Maybe it is something that you come to visit me and thry my ebike.
It will be finished in a couple of weeks.
My setup is an giant anthem with 20s 10p samsung 25R and a mxus v2 motor with an adaptto mini-e with the adaptto bms and a eltek flatpack(2000 watt) charger
At the rear i use a freewheel of 12 teeth and on the front a blade of 46 teeth.

Greetz Frank

Haha that would be AWESOME dude! But the netherlands are a bit fare away from me^^ I live at the bottom of germany, in Baden-Württemberg at the "Bodensee" / "Lake of Constance".

-Im just waiting right now for Olga, the secretary of Artur from Vector team to accept my order. I ordered from Vector:

-The Battery 22s, 20Ah, 84volt, 1,6kW
-Frame everything in white, with two find openings,
-Moto seat
-old mini-e version with on / off switch and Pas
-BMS
-Coil


Also I asked Allex to sell me the MXUS 3000w v2 Hub motor with some moped rims 24" for street but also dirt riding

-Cheers, Elias

 

[frankrs]

Hi Elias

Nice surroundings you live in.

Good luck with your build

Greetz Frank

 

[DasDouble]

Some updates:

-Im pretty shure my order from Vector will be shipped in about 2 days (YES! FINALLY! )
-Got a bit better motor: A QS 205 Motor. 370Euro with shipping etc to germany (280$ without shipping). It is better in many ways. A bit heavier but it isn´t overheating that fast as far as I know. Better spend some more money than getting frustrated after a while^^

-Cheers, Elias

 

[Dirtech]

Any updates? Its been a long month without my bike

 

[DasDouble]

Updates: Finally my order is ready to send^^ (yes, again ;D)

Gonna buy everything from Vector, without the wheels, spokes and Motor. They are still going to be from QS Motors.
-Elias

 

[DasDouble]

This is what I ordererd a couple of houres ago. I´m pretty shure the things will arrive no later than in about two weeks completly or maybe less

- Battery L: 84v 20Ah 22s 1.6 kWH
- frame (everything in white, not grilled)
- old mini-e version (6kW) + on/off key switch + PAS
- BMS 28s
- kickstand
- motoseat (the metal also in white please)
- coil 70A

Still waiting until the DNM USD-8 Fork and the RCP-3 Suspension is in stock. Gonna buy them together with a charger.

-Next order is going to be the Hub-Motor from QS Motors laced in a wheel together with a front wheel. Both of them 19" motorcycle tires.

After this my bike will be finnished ( at least I hope so^^ ) *YES!!!*

 

[ziltoid81]

With a Vector i would definitely go with 17" @ the rear.
You will gain lots of torque and efficiency.
Front 19 rear 17.

The Vector is perfect for 17", due to the high bb.

 

[DasDouble]

With a Vector i would definitely go with 17" @ the rear.
You will gain lots of torque and efficiency.
Front 19 rear 17.

The Vector is perfect for 17", due to the high bb.

What do you mean with "due the high bb"? Do you mean at hills or at high speed?
What does "bb" means?

-Elias

 

[speedhub]

BB = bottom bracket = Tretlager

 

[DasDouble]

BB = bottom bracket = Tretlager

Oh ok I see... thank you really much

 

[DasDouble]

Bad news: Had an accident two days ago because I was in a hurry... Was driving around in the city to get to my piano lesson in time and crashed because of driving too fast on my pedelec. Long story in short: Wanted to switch lines and there was a wet pile of leaves.... So my front wheel lost grip on the ground and *BATZ* there I was: laying on the ground with a bloody hand. fingernail was pushed upwards... Yeah not a so nice feeling. Police came and looked for me, after a woman called for an ambulance. After 5-10 minutes I was in hospital. The doc said he gonna give me 3 injections. Well after all it were 4 ones.. not 3^^
After all now I have a big splinted bandage around my fingers. Got x-rayed also. Maybe someone knows such feeling of a destroyes fingernail... I wish nobody had to have this experience....... :?

But anyway.. Now I cant do wheelys anymore ( :-( ) and do have to write with just the left hand.. Maybe in two weeks Im fine again.. Pretty shitty if you ask me...

-Ride safe and take your fuc#ing time to wear gloves... :-( !

-Elias

 

[DasDouble]

Update 02.12.2015:

Gonna buy me this motorcycle jacket for 140 Euro: http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00...ttl&tag=gutefragene09-21&ascsutobtag=53559970.
And these nice things for my knees: http://www.amazon.de/dp/B000I5AI4A/...olid=P04XBYKOZ32K&coliid=I31BSPX7A7C9M8&psc=1

Also the deal with QS Motors is destroyed (lol, that english^^), because of customs fees. Would be more money then I have if I would have had to pay for it. Gonna buy a motor and two wheels from Artur if his price is good and not more expensive than from QS Motors originally.

-Elias

 

[jakequicksilver9]

That sucks about your hand, definetly should invest in some gloves. Have you considered the mxus 3000? E4bike.ru is selling them for $410 laced into a 17in moto rim. This is including shipping to the U.S. so if you live in Europe it should be cheaper. Good luck with your recovery!

 

[markz]

Sorry about your hand, thankfully its only that!

With Amazon.de (Denmark?), are you able to buy and get shipped products when you use .com, or other country dot names, like maybe Amazon.it (Italy) etc.?

 

[DasDouble]

Sorry about your hand, thankfully its only that!

With Amazon.de (Denmark?), are you able to buy and get shipped products when you use .com, or other country dot names, like maybe Amazon.it (Italy) etc.?

De stands for deutschland = Germany.
I have never tried this with .com and .it etc... But I think it should work. There are some reports of some germany people who are using this method with .com .it instead of .de to get same things cheaper. Is the same with a DNM USD-8 fork. Amazon.de wants 999€ for it. Amazon.com wants just around 200$. :O So I think it should work. Will have a look if there is a cheaper option with different Amazon.-Endings.

Hand is ok again. Finally, I can play the piano again . Is just a bit crazy red on the fingernail... But Im shure my body will fix that

-Cheers, Elias

 

[DasDouble]

That sucks about your hand, definetly should invest in some gloves. Have you considered the mxus 3000? E4bike.ru is selling them for $410 laced into a 17in moto rim. This is including shipping to the U.S. so if you live in Europe it should be cheaper. Good luck with your recovery!

I will buy a hub from Artur, Vector Team. Is going to be a custom made one. Don´t know yet how much everything will costs but Artur told me it won´t be more than I would have payed on QS Motors. I think its going to be a bit equale one like the QS 205 3000w 50H one from QS Motors.