‘A Dangerous Combination’: Teenagers’ Accidents Expose E-Bike Risks' A New York Times Article

[marty]

Codpiece - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

OK, I think I understand? Guys with small penises need to buy a 7000 pound pickup truck with plastic balls hanging from the trailer hitch?


Me? I got a 3000 pound car. with nothing hanging from the rear. I also have a 10,000 pound truck with nothing hanging from the rear. Truck is broke at the moment. Limp mode. Cracked the DEF injector with a cold chisel $400 for that. Next step is to look at NOx sensors.

All ya Guys driving a pickup truck. Think about this? When you look at other guys peckers in the locker room. You looking at them from the side. When you look at your own pecker, you looking at it from the top. Other guys look bigger only because you see them from a different angle.

 

[marty]

People who put balls on their trucks, why?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/5xqxhg

I saw a car with truck nuts, but the car was so low that it's nuts were dragging along the road. I wonder what that says about the driver?

 

[marvin78]

My vehicle is perfectly functional as a "bicycle". It has bicycle pedals, bicycle crankset, bicycle chain, bicycle sprockets, bicycle grip shifters, bicycle cables, bicycle front/rear derailleurs, and because of its aerodynamics, I can disable the motor and race lycra-clad Lance Armstrong wannabes on bicycles and have a decent chance of running away from them, because it has a mass that is less close to that of a motorcycle and more close to that of a bicycle. The only time they lose me is going uphill. I can disable the motor and reach 35 mph on flat ground, with nothing but my own two legs providing motive force. The next body shell might increase that to over 40 mph. Cruising speed on a disabled motor is about 22-23 MPH on flat ground. Keep in mind that this is WITH my hubmotor's cogging torque losses adding significant resistance, otherwise I'd gain 2-3 mph.

Using my own legs, I can exceed "street legal ebike" speeds, as long as I'm not going uphill. Going downhill, this vehicle is delightfully stable, and I love careening downhill at 60 mph.

I never said it's not functional as bicycle. I only stated that once you're talking about things going speeds of electric motorcycles, I don't think it's fair to still threat them the same way as bicycles.

I am aware of the speeds someone with an enclosed recliner can reach on pedal power. We have them here as well. I think I see around 5 of them each year if that.

I didn't even realize you were riding something like that in between traffic, I would be even more scared due to the low sight position / low visibility towards others. I never seen an electric conversion enclosed recliner here, I also don't know where they would fit in our infrastructure. The pedal powered one's on the bicycle lanes are only 'not an issue' due to their extremely low occurrence rates, our traffic laws are focused a lot on limiting speed differentials, I don't think I can make an argument for such a 'bike' ( even if it technically is, with pedals and all that ) being allowed to mix with traffic which expected speeds do not exceed what most people on bikes ride around at.

Maybe when bikes are seen only as sport equipment, people are expected to always be in 'race mode' but I'm used to sharing the road with the kids going to school and mom doing some quick groceries while dad might actually be in a hurry since he's for work but still isn't on a full on race bike trying to beat his strava time. 85% of bikes are slower then me, and I'm only doing ~40km/h, then there are 5% lycra mtb riders who will keep up with me for some time, 3% pure road lycra which will actually be smoking me if they are any good and the other 7% are other ebike riders ( mostly fatbikes, they are a rage right now and so easy to unrestrict since they all come with 'big motors' ).

There is no way 'public opinion' would allow your trike on our bike infrastructure, that is what I meant. Even if it's a 'fully functional' bike where you live.

Btw I would love try a trike like yours out once, but I'd prefer on a track and not on public roads with tin cans

 

[marvin78]

People who put balls on their trucks, why?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/5xqxhg

I think the top answer says it all

 

[The Toecutter]

There is no way 'public opinion' would allow your trike on our bike infrastructure, that is what I meant. Even if it's a 'fully functional' bike where you live.

While I don't let public opinion dictate the choices I make, when I do ride on bike trails and what tiny bit of bike infrastructure exists around here, I do disable the motor. This infrastructure is mostly for recreational purposes only and found in parks and such, and is hardly practical.

The motor is primarily for doing 30-35 mph on city streets all day long and 45 mph on state highways. The bike lanes that exist on some of the roads are generally unused, and allow me a way to get around traffic jams, but I mostly avoid them because of potholes. It's not legally allowed on the interstate since it is a "bicycle". It's also nice not to have any range anxiety, because not only does it get range like a commercially available electric car(at least with the body on it), but is still very pedalable when the battery runs dead even if a bit on the heavy side.

 

[marvin78]

The motor is primarily for doing 30-35 mph on city streets all day long and 45 mph on state highways.

See, that's the thing... there is no way someone Dutch would ever consider something capable and allowed to be going on the interstate's as a 'bicycle.'.

It's not legally allowed on the interstate since it is a "bicycle".

...ow, I see

The bike lanes that exist on some of the roads are generally unused, and allow me a way to get around traffic jams, but I mostly avoid them because of potholes.

Recurring theme, those potholes ( and them getting fixed sooner when they are some more 'important' part of the road ). With what notjustbikes has shown I can understand most people don't even try and the gutters which should pass for bicycle lanes, it's more dangerous there then between the cars ( if you can keep up / get out of the way of some stewpid and/or drunk person ).

It's also nice not to have any range anxiety, because not only does it get range like a commercially available electric car(at least with the body on it), but is still very pedalable when the battery runs dead even if a bit on the heavy side.

As said earlier, I would love to be able to try out a 100mph capable trike someday, just preferably not between cars. It sounds like a dream, as long as there aren't murdermachines all around me.

 

[The Toecutter]

...ow, I see

State highways in the U.S. often have a similar speed limit to interstate highways once you get out of the cities. The interstates are under Federal jurisdiction, which generally disallows bicycles, but state highways are under the jurisdiction of the state they are in. The state highways in Missouri and Illinois both allow bicycles and ebikes, albeit oft times the speed limits can be 70+ mph in rural areas. Inside my city, the state highways have speed limits of 35-45 mph, and my trike can match the flow of traffic using the electric motor, which is absolutely crucial for not getting run over. Oft times, a state highway is the only means to get somewhere, often without even a sidewalk present, and no bus routes that operate at and/or to the location either. With the steep hills around here, the same pedaling effort that with the motor disabled allows me to hold 25 mph in my custom trike on flat ground, will only get me 5 mph going up some of these hills. Thus, the motor absolutely is a necessity for safe operation when the speed limit is 35 mph and the flow of traffic closer to 50 mph. 10kW peak tackles those hills at flow of traffic speeds without any issue at all, and even when it was only 2.5kW, it was still sufficient.

 

[marvin78]

The state highways in Missouri and Illinois both allow bicycles and ebikes, albeit oft times the speed limits can be 70+ mph in rural areas.

Recipe for disaster is the first thing which comes to my mind. Guess growing up in a place where they require a minimum speed for highways ( which is why mopeds are excluded, they do not meet the minimum speed requirement which is btw only 60km/h ) really messed me up.

This ofc removes any and all argument I had of 'but you're a motorbike'. That argument was mostly founded on the fact you're driving in conditions I wouldn't normally expect to see a bicycle. Guess I should have known, saw a youtube video not that long ago of some coppers trying to ticket someone on a horse who was using the highway.. turned out he's allowed to use the highway on a horse..

I don't see how that's particularly safe, or a nice environment for a horse to 'work' in, but I guess some laws just never gotten updated

 

[nicobie]

 

[Monkeypowah]

I have seen epic levels of dangerous riding over the last few years.
I guess its a phase..no pun intended..we are going through.
Middle aged men on 60 mph scooters overtaking traffic to get more beer from the shop, wearing shorts and no helmet.

13yr olds on direct hub converted bikes doing 45mph on the back wheel in 20 zones.

10 year olds on scooters tearing about main roads weaving through pedestrians and traffic with a five year old stood behind them.

Adult men on 50mph converted bikes entering junctions on the wrong side of the road at full speed and not even bothering to look the way the traffic is coming. and then filtering into it.

Kids under ten shooting past shop doors on busy streets on powerful and heavy dual motor scooters.

The days in the UK of low level policing are gone, a state of mild anarchy has descended, the police...given the million to one chance you see one...will not intervene, they dont quite know what to do, the reliance on robotic camera policing doesnt work when theres no licence plate to base a fine or conviction on.

I ride an illegal bike on the rare occasion you find me on public roads, I see pensioners and young adults casually crusing at 25mph using throttles on chinese bikes with shopping bags on the handlebars, and theres me sticking to 15 and pedaling to look legal.

Of course they will be looking into this and soon these days will be over as more tech is used to control the populace.

Drones now require remote ID transmission and soon all controllers, scooters, one wheels, electric unicycles, skateboards and even roller skates will require registration and ownership transmission and gps to networks.

I guess were going to bring 1984 on ourselves.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

I guess were going to bring 1984 on ourselves.

This is always the case.

It isn't someone else's responsibility to be a citizen, and it takes constant attention and work.

Evil always exists, and it preys on lazy and selfish. If you aren't focused on ensuring freedom for your neighbours, you aren't pursuing freedom, you are pursuing license. For just yourself.

 

[The Toecutter]

I guess were going to bring 1984 on ourselves.

There will always be irresponsible people, and no law really ever stops them. It only reacts to their behavior after the fact, often on a subjective and/or selective basis in a manner that is self-serving to those who enforce it and execute it.

Most of the existing control mechanisms implemented around the world were imposed by government bureaucrats, corporations, and various special interest groups, and not ever even voted on by the public. Ebike laws/restrictions are no exception, and it seems that they were written by the auto industry to prevent ebikes from being a viable car alternative. If enough people choose non-compliance en-masse with laws/rules that they had no hand in even creating and never agreed upon in the first place, and refuse to cooperate with the authorities and legal system outright in the enforcement thereof(even if it comes down to using force to defend oneself against them), then 1984 becomes impossible. The answer to 1984 is 1776.

There is no way I'd ever comply with a mandatory GPS tracker on any vehicle I use. Just because the law says something, doesn't mean it's right to follow it. I built my vehicle as a reaction to the environment I find myself living in. This environment is hostile to humanity in general, with most of its rules written in order to maximize profit to a group of self-serving entities that have more say in what the "law" says than the people it is enforced upon, done so often under the guise of "public safety" or the "greater good" while both of those concepts instead become further eroded in practice. I need transportation, I don't want to pay for the cost of operating a car, I don't want to waste the planet's diminishing resources, and I am tired of government red tape, government surveillance, and taxes that are demonstrably to my detriment yet were supposedly enacted for my own good. So I came up with a solution that works for me, and is of no threat to anyone else.

We're all one massive energy crisis, world war, resource shortage, or some sort of massive black swan event from the current transportation paradigm of multi-ton vehicles everywhere becoming an impossibility. That simply won't last because it is unsustainable. The same can be said for the oversized bureaucracies and legal systems that try to control us, as their resource footprint is every bit as abominable as the transportation paradigm they try to enforce.

 

[None]

Education at schools about traffic laws should be implemented, from childhood all the way to high school.
In many countries around the world, cycling and traffic laws are part of curriculum required for their schools.
Cycling should be like a life long skill that everyone should know, like swimming.. or maybe even math.

I feel that in America, most drivers think bicycles & motorcycles don't belong on public roads,
which is a mentality that's been imbedded across decades of car culture and cheap oil in America.

Regardless of regulations, laws or manufacturer limits on the machines or vehicle, people or teens are always going to find ways to go faster. Sometimes (or most of the time) faster than manufacturer intended speed, sometimes faster than than vehicle designed for.

Meanwhile, I still think parents should also be held accountable when their teens is caught breaking traffic laws, causing accidents on high-seed e-bikes.
If they can afford high cost, high speed e-bikes to for their teens, they can also afford higher (x5 or x10) auto insurance premiums.

 

[Mikegy]

Nope, i'm in the suburbs in Utah, and nobody gives a shit about what you do/don't do on 2 wheels because this is conservative-ville.

Go to Salt Lake City and you've got liberals running the place doing their best to imitate the west coast poorly, making these bike projects all over the place that don't connect to each other, and make you pass through fast traffic quite often unless you're willing to bend around that and make your route much longer.

Over there you will likely get busted for riding too fast in the wrong situation.

Utah does have some nice trails and stuff but few of them go very far / don't intersect with fast traffic. They are for casual rides. Commuting is another story.

This is a typical commute in Minneapolis. Most of the paths I ride on no matter where are well utilized. My faster ebike I ride on streets there and Saint Cloud both of which have adequately wide bike lanes as well as infrastructure that doesn't suddenly force you into fast moving cross traffic (thank you Utah for that surprise) on your ride.

 

[None]

The two biggest problems with electric bikes aren’t even about e-bikes

The two biggest problems with electric bikes aren't even about e-bikes

E-bikes aren't without problems, but the biggest issues aren't even directly related to electric bikes. Here's how we can start solving them.

electrek.co

Notice there is no mention of battery fires being a problem for ebikes.

 

[calab]

See who the publisher is first.

 

[marvin78]

Wait, whats wrong with that article? It's SPOT ON about the issues.

For (e)bikes to be a viable mode of transport, you need:

1. safe infrastructure
2. secure parking ( with charging.. for ebikes, public chargers in the parking area's greatly enhance the possibility of people using their ebikes instead of taking something not needed, like a tin can ).

This is a typical commute in Minneapolis.

Happy to see there are places which are trending in the right direction

 

[harrisonpatm]

Wait, whats wrong with that article? It's SPOT ON about the issues.

I don't think @calab is pointing out anything specifically wrong about the article, just that Micah Toll is hardly an unbiased opinion regarding electric bikes. Not that he says anything wrong or false in the article. Just that, I had a similar reaction: I clicked on @None 's link, saw that I got redirected to electrek.co, and didn't particularly feel the need to read the rest of the article.

 

[None]

I don't think @calab is pointing out anything specifically wrong about the article, just that Micah Toll is hardly an unbiased opinion regarding electric bikes. Not that he says anything wrong or false in the article. Just that, I had a similar reaction: I clicked on @None 's link, saw that I got redirected to electrek.co, and didn't particularly feel the need to read the rest of the article.

As if you or @calab have ridden more ebikes than the author?
Can you offer more insights to ebike experience than the author of the article?
Whether you feel like reading the article or website, doesn't mean there isn't merit to the article that reflect to majority of ebike riding community.

 

[harrisonpatm]

As if you or @calab have ridden more ebikes than the author?

That's.... not what I said at all?

Can you offer more insights to ebike experience than the author of the article?

Nope. Wasn't trying to either. I think Micah is much more knowledgeable in this area than I am. Just because I disagree with nothing in the article, doesn't mean it's unbiased. In the same way that whoever is behind the first article in the thread, is clearly biased against ebikes, regardless of the veracity of whatever facts and figures are mentioned.

"Consider the source" is good advice for navigating the internet, and it's still good advice even when presented with information and opinions with which you agree. Otherwise you risk becoming complicent in allowing the internet to be your personal sounding board.

I think it's important to surround oneself with opinions and information that challenge your worldview, and that's the only point I was trying to make when I explained how I felt upon discovering it was a Micah Toll opinion piece. I skimmed it, and didn't bother to heavily analyze every line, because I already knew I would be likely to agree with everything in it.

 

[Chalo]

As if you or @calab have ridden more ebikes than the author?

I'm confident neither of them are paid shills for e-bikes like the author. He ain't wrong, but he has chosen to single out things that aren't within the purview of e-bike makers.

 

[marvin78]

Wow that's a lot off politics which I didn't expect

As a pleb unfamiliar with the source really, and thus unaware of any existing obvious biases, I just read the article through quickly and found myself agreeing with it completely.

I had no idea about the author / site's tendency to act as amplifier for talking points from ( certain? ) ebike manufacturers.

I don't think @calab is pointing out anything specifically wrong about the article, just that Micah Toll is hardly an unbiased opinion regarding electric bikes. Not that he says anything wrong or false in the article. Just that, I had a similar reaction: I clicked on @None 's link, saw that I got redirected to electrek.co, and didn't particularly feel the need to read the rest of the article.

Well by not reading something you're depriving yourself of the possibility to be ( positively ) surprised. Off course that also goes the other way. In either case, as I'm not familiar with the authors track record, I choose to read it through and take the information from it as stand alone and not tied to any predetermined 'outcome'.

I must say that I enjoyed having read something which in my opinion is factually correct and are real core issues to get more people out of their cars and on an ebike instead. I even hope I will 'forget' ( or rather, 'file it somewhere where retrieval isn't automated ) the attributed bias, as I think it's better for any individual to form their own opinions and I can't do that if I don't consume the written output of that author

Whether you feel like reading the article or website, doesn't mean there isn't merit to the article that reflect to majority of ebike riding community.

^^ and that's why I am glad I read it, and where I try to avoid either repeating after or dismissing on forehand, any single source just based on 'history'.

That's.... not what I said at all?


Nope. Wasn't trying to either. I think Micah is much more knowledgeable in this area than I am. Just because I disagree with nothing in the article, doesn't mean it's unbiased. In the same way that whoever is behind the first article in the thread, is clearly biased against ebikes, regardless of the veracity of whatever facts and figures are mentioned.

"Consider the source" is good advice for navigating the internet, and it's still good advice even when presented with information and opinions with which you agree. Otherwise you risk becoming complicent in allowing the internet to be your personal sounding board.

I think it's important to surround oneself with opinions and information that challenge your worldview, and that's the only point I was trying to make when I explained how I felt upon discovering it was a Micah Toll opinion piece. I skimmed it, and didn't bother to heavily analyze every line, because I already knew I would be likely to agree with everything in it.

Hear hear. Maybe if I wasn't tired after spending hours writing my whole 'life history' again (assignment of my new therapist I kid you not ) I could have ... nah it would still be the same garbled mess as you're reading now

 

[nicobie]

Hear hear. Maybe if I wasn't tired after spending hours writing my whole 'life history' again (assignment of my new therapist I kid you not ) I could have ... nah it would still be the same garbled mess as you're reading now

No worries... It's mostly all good.

 

[crunchysteve]

An age old headline "Kid Does Something Stupid: Dies."

How THE F*** I ever survived to 20 and beyond beggars belief. I used to get into a few arguments with journos at work when they blamed a fad or new thing for a death that was clearly down to youthful stupidity/sense of immortality, call it what you will. Friendly arguments, but hotly contested and rarely resolved.