Anyone have aggressive confontations with pedestrians?

[QuestionMan]

I just had a pretty bad confrontation with a pedestrian that could have ended badly. I was wondering if any of you had any issues with pedestrians that could have led to violence?

In this particular incident I really did not think I did anything wrong. This was in a federal park where bikes are allowed and many people ride bikes through here. I passed a guy and a dog, I made sure to slow down and go as far to the right of him as I could on a concrete path or more a street path as cops drive down it but I think cars are not allowed to drive there.

I passed this guy maybe doing probably 15MPH, maybe 20MPH tops but I doubt it. It was a steep uphill and I made sure to drive past him slowly. Now I forget the amount of time that passed but I was going to go down this road in the opposite direction and this guy yells out to me to stop he wants to talk with me. I do not like speaking with pedestrians on my ebike and again I forget the situation but I think he was probably a bit aggressive. As I continued to drive forward he walked directly in front of my bike to stop me. Guy was about 45, white, tall 180-200 lbs, skinny build. Guy was bigger than I was and would most likely win a fight do to his weight advantage.

This is where it gets bad as I do not like people trying to stop me and block my path for obvious reasons. He starts yelling saying that I passed him fast and did not give him any warning, I told him that I slowed down and stayed all the way to his right. It got into a yelling match and he was getting more aggressive and I was also getting aggressive as I told him to not block my path and not let me go on my way. He was very aggressive in my face only a few feet away. He had dog shit in a bag and said that if I passed him again he was going to sling the dog shit on me. He did mention that I had a motorized bike and he never expected anyone to pass him so quickly on this steep uphill. He also mentioned that his dog was like one of his kids.

As it was getting worse and I was not sure where it was going I decided that I would try and secretly take out my pepper spray and keep it in my hand behind me for fast use. I have it in a velcrow holster on my belt and while I was doing this he asked what I was doing, so I stopped. Finally I turned the bike around and drove away and while doing this out of anger I yelled "I should kick your F*&king ass" he then started to run at me, which was stupid as he could never catch me.

As I rode away I just could not believe this guy would do all this as I specifically slowed down to pass him and stayed far to his right. I think because I ride here sometimes I didn't want to worry about this guy again I decided from a distance to tell him again that I didn't think he should be so upset under the circumstances. Anyway he approached him and after a few minutes of yelling at each other we spoke for about 20 minutes.



Couple of things I learned. He said he was an army vet back and hurt from Afghanistan. There is army housing very close to the area so this was probably true.

He considered it a threat after he blocked my path and finally after I was riding away from him and about 30 feet away (and while still riding away) he thought I yelled "I am going to kick your ass. Probably purposely leaving out the words "I should". I wanted to point out how aggressive people will use anything they can to give them a reason to fight and attack you. Obviously when someone is running away from you and even if I yelled I am going to kick your ass, that constitutes no threat.

He later asked what I was going for in my holster, he thought it may have been a cell phone, anyway he told me that if he saw me pull pepper spray he would have jumped me while I was on my bike, kocked me down and use the bike to pin me down and elbow me in the face. Just pointing this out that if any of you have weapons, only pull them if you are going to immediately use them. And if you can, best to step off your bike and lay it down and walk back some feet before pulling any weapons.

He considered his dog as one of his kids. I learned from experience that if you see kids you need to drive at a snails pace or parents get really defensive. So I guess some dog owners could be the same way with their dogs. My advice is to take caution with dog owners thinking your going to hit their dog.

I think anyone of you can be put into a situation like this as I was not driving aggressive nor riding in a bike prohibited area. Some people out there obviously just want a confrontation. This guy I would never have thought would be the type to be confrontational like this. He had a non-aggressive appearance. I do not meet many army people so I am not sure if army people are aggressive like this for obvious reasons. This could have gone really bad especially if this guy had combat experience from being in the army, which I asked him and he said he did.

Maybe I should have given some signal before passing him but bikers in general do not do this in my area so I just do not. I probably should have not been so confrontational when he was blocking my bike but to me I consider this a form of kidnapping and an attack on my freedoms. Maybe next time I will try and remain more calm and try and pacify the person as anyone who is going to block your path is obviously looking for a fight.

So I would like to hear form any of you who had confrontations while riding and how you would deal with someone who blocked your path and was screaming aggressively at you. I honestly think its a matter of time before this happens to many of you especially if you drive in a big city. Do you think a helmet cam is a good idea and can help calm down a situation because people will know they are being recorded?

 

[swbluto]

Just pointing this out that if any of you have weapons, only pull them if you are going to immediately use them. And if you can, best to step off your bike and lay it down and walk back some feet before pulling any weapons.

Oh, HELL YEAH. You don't want to potentially escalate a situation with someone else by making any movements that can be interpreted as threatening. If it's a dog, sure, be prepared - People? Unless they're obviously going to mug you, I'd suggest keeping it as concealed as possible. If they're talking to you when they had the chance to attack you, they're obviously not planning on attacking you... assuming you don't make the wrong moves.

But, yeah, anwyay... It's not hard to believe you'll encounter some aggressive army guys. I think it naturally attracts aggressors.

And, whenever I pass someone who's walking dogs and they're obviously not constraining their movement to prevent a collision, I always slow down to 5-10mph just in case they jut out in front of me.

 

[xenodius]

I ride my non-motorized bicycle in legal back roads, two lanes so people can pass, and never during busy hours.... but I've had people yell, scream, swear, try to run me off the road, get out and threaten, even chase me... thank goodness for curb-hopping 29er wheels and hydraulic disc brakes. People yell at me in parks too, I don't know why. as you said, don't let anyone block you!

I've actually been on the local news in the background, emergency stopping when a parent's kid strayed into the road. Maybe three feet left, from 30mph downhill. Slower is always safer!

 

[hydro-one]

in my experiance the best thing you can do is:

Just Ride Away :wink:

especially when someone is yelling. Assuming your backpack isnt on fire.

 

[zombiess]

Had some old fart with an unleashed yell at me one day on the bike path to slow down. I was going 10 to 15 and all the lycras ride faster. I ignored him until the next time when he yelled at me again when I stopped and rode up to him telling him there is no speed limit and I was going maybe 15 mph. He started cursing at me and getting agressive. at this point I informed him his dog needed to be leashed by law and he just went off. I started laughing and calmly told him I am younger enjoy fighting and wearing a full face helmet and body armor under my jacket which I then tapped. I told him to calm down and think about his next move ( learned this tactic of making the aggressor rethink from my friend who does car repos). We then proceeded to discuss proper etiquette which I practice when riding and calmly parted ways, he even apologized. From then on he waved at me when he saw me. He had no idea my bike was electric either. I was also proud of myself for keeping my cool because in my late 20s early 30s I could become quite aggressive if pushed and was fighting 2 to 3 times a week during training.

Most of the time its not worth it, but sometimes its a satisfying experience.

 

[swbluto]

Lemme tell you a story.

Once upon a time, I was walking past a school field where a young blonde female was playing with her black Labrador. This dog comes out of the fenced area and then proceeds to pin me against the fence, sniffing me. Not knowing this dog's intentions, I pulled out my pepper spray and readied it just in case it lunged. This girl tried reassuring me it wouldn't bite, but then as soon as she recognized I had something dangerous in my hand, she's started freaking out and yelling and that's when the dog's tail went straight back and it started growling at me. It didn't lunge at me, but I did trying-to-remain-as-calm-as-possible-in-saying-this-but-failed-miserably "Please, just get your dog.". She did, and then I started walking away, then she started yelling at me for "violating the law" (Lol, what an idiot.). Then she got in car and started chasing me, threatening me by telling me she called the cops and they're coming and get me (I knew that was a lie, you have to actually kill someone to get ahold of the cops in this city). I called her bluff and walked off like she didn't bother me then as soon as I went into the store, I hurried up and disposed of the pepper spray as quickly as possible and walked quickly into another store, chickened out, and called my sister to come pick me up.

Moral of the story is:

Keep the pepper spray at the ready, but don't make it visible to people. They freak out and quickly escalate the situation.

There's another time when a dog actually did attack me, but I ended up spraying myself in the face because of the wind. Bad experience, got my batteries stolen.

The moral of that story was to get an electric stun baton, lol. (Btw, I've read new stories of vicious dogs just shaking off the pepper spray.)

I have a feeling there may be yet another life-lesson in store for that defense weapon.

Anyway, my protocol for handling threats, whether 2 legged or 4:

-Run away as fast as freaking possible!
-If the threat gets close and doesn't look too ferocious, signal my air horn.
-If I must face the threat Mano-y-mano, escalate to incapacitating force.

Avoid confrontation whenever possible.

 

[ken1645]

In that dude's defense: I remember as a kid riding my bicycle to the park or something and a dog ran out in front of my friend's bike It was very sad, the dog's neck took a good blow as my friend was stopping. The dog ended up being OK if I can recall. They gave it some Ibuprofen. Dogs be crazy.

The army guy shouldn't have threatened to throw shit on you though, that's just nasty.

 

[Dauntless]

First of all, no question, you're dealing with either substance abuse or mental illness in this one, or both. In the case of 2/3rd's of the mentally ill, it'll be both. "Dual Disordered." Drugs are voluntary mental illness. The best thing is NEVER STOP. But you did, so too late.

No point in taking out the pepperspray SECRETLY. Make a show of it. Forget the nonsense they said, you let him see where he's taking this and give him the chance to walk away. Meanwhile, NEVER wait until the last second to get it out.

There's an expression in the martial arts: 'Clear the maw.' Don't let him get within reach of you. Get off the bike and put it between you from the very start. The MOMENT he starts talking about the violence he would do, he gets a facefull of that pepperspray AND a trip to jail if you have a phone. Just threatening someone with violence is a jailable offense, at least in California. Keep in mind not everyone goes down from pepperspray. Just because he says he's a vet doesn't mean he really is. Nor if he really is does it give him the right to any of this. Putting all these rationalizations to words, as with the dog being like his kid, is solely the work of an evil mind and proof of how dangerous he is.

The responsible thing for you to do at this point is MAKE A POLICE REPORT. Someone who talks about the violence he feels entitled to commit is very much a danger to commit it. Someday you'll be reading about some victim you possibly could have prevented. Don't be surprised if they already have a '6 Pack' for you to look at, they MIGHT ALREADY KNOW WHO HE IS threatening people in the park, or at least they might already be looking for him. As in he's a regular. Sooner or later he'll get up the nerve to hurt someone. Most of your shooters in theaters, schools, etc. have talked of doing it before. As with many random violent crimes.

A few years back, at the height of my leg troubles, there was some yelling a few hundred feet back where I'd just walked past downtown. I could at least trot back, where I found this 20 something trying to crawl right over a guy in his 80's who was on crutches and trying to protect his elderly wife. Seems when the psycho had something to say, she said something back. I'm 6'2" 200 pounds, but so was he; he was just going to have to pick on someone his own size. So after a scuffle that sure seemed to exceed the 7 minute response time the cops finally showed up just as he'd gone to get the valet parking sign (The 130 pound valet said "Heeeeeey. . . ." as he did) and ran at me with it but ran out of breath and dropped it as he was almost to me (In no uncertain terms, LUCKY FOR HIM, the kid gloves were coming off). . . .

. . . .So one of these cops suddenly says 'Hey, I know you. . . .' and the creep starts to remind the cops of when he's arrested him. Another says he knows him too and so on and so forth, until all 5 cops have had their memories refreshed. And I asked "Why do you keep LETTING HIM GO?????" His equally psycho girlfriend was there getting pissed at me for asking that.

I could go on about this is the same department that beat a helpless homeless man to death when he wasn't doing anything, plus they take runty college students to the jail and as a gang knock their teeth out, attack guys taking video of them, etc. Over $7 million paid out so far this year, alone. None of those victims were as big as this guy, I guess. I just want to get it across to you that only you can make him feel the heat. The cops are too scared, too indifferent, whatever. Your community needs you to step up. Before you tell yourself you're safer if you don't, keep in mind he'll remember what a pushover you were and watch for you. Psychos have been known to talk to potential victims first to size them up and get back to them later. You have no way of knowing what's going on with this one.

And I'll bet all those vets in that housing you mentioned would support your doing so. If he's still in the army they'll thank you for identifying him for them.

 

[Dauntless]

Sounds like you simply have a flair. Most people could never handle it so smoothly. But most people don't calmly think of how easily they could take this guy.

. . . . I ignored him until the next time when he yelled at me again . . . I informed him his dog needed to be leashed by law and he just went off. I started laughing and calmly told him I am younger enjoy fighting and wearing a full face helmet and body armor under my jacket which I then tapped. I told him to calm down and think about his next move ( learned this tactic of making the aggressor rethink. . .We then proceeded to discuss proper etiquette which I practice when riding and calmly parted ways, he even apologized . . . I was also proud of myself for keeping my cool. . .

Most of the time its not worth it, but sometimes its a satisfying experience.

 

[Eskimo]

Few weeks aho i was riding with one group, and one of them was this old lycra guy, who just kept telling me "your bike is overpowered", so that everybody else shure heard it well.
After few repeats of that i just told him to cut that crap, i was doing exactly same speed as everybody else, pedaling. We did not get into a fist fight, but it was close. I was tempted, but it"s stupid, and this guy was old, would have been even more stupid and shameful.
Anyway, after the ride he came to talk to me, and said "i too tried to put together e-bike years ago, but i could not make it work"
:? So all of it was just pure envy. I have not seen the guy since on our group rides. At least he was honest, that"s a good start.

 

[QuestionMan]

First of all, no question, you're dealing with either substance abuse or mental illness in this one, or both. In the case of 2/3rd's of the mentally ill, it'll be both. "Dual Disordered." Drugs are voluntary mental illness. The best thing is NEVER STOP. But you did, so too late.

He did mention that he "got half his head shot off in Afghanistan, but he had a hat on and I saw no obvious signs of any disorder. But good point and a good chance he could be on drugs and have some kind of mental illness.

The problem with not stopping was he walked quickly right in front of my bike and blocked my path, then started to yell right in my face staying very close to me the entire time. I actually had to eventually turn/lift my bike around 180 degrees to ride away.

He also did say he yells at other bikers and just did at some guy on a speed bike taking the downhill portion at over 30MPH.

 

[Joseph C.]

You should report him to the police. If it wasn't you this time that nutcase will end up hurting someone else.

 

[dogman dan]

Does almost getting into a fist fight with 30 young, military or perhaps fireman types count?

One fine morning near the motels, appears on the path 30 meaty looking joggers in a group, insisting ALL bicycles were illegal on the multi use path. I convinced them I was eager to talk to cops, about 30 knuckleheads from out of town threatening old farts on the bike trail.

I tried hard for years to make friends with the regular users of the path. Most I succeeded with, others not. I got to know who wanted me to honk, and who preferred me to pass slowly without the honk. Mostly, I tried to train them to walk right, so I could predictably pass left. Once predictable which side I'd be passing on, just a "good morning" as I slowed to pass from behind would replace the honking of the horn. Or, if they were ok with it, the horn at 100', and pass em at 20 mph.

Three bitches never cooperated, and continue to this day to walk three abreast, blocking the entire 8 foot wide multi use path. One step to the right, and 2 feet of path would be there to pass. Nope, right up the middle leaving 1 foot on either side. I'd coast up to them as silent as possible, and ten feet away give the horn making them spot their panties. That was after they bitched me out and began to really make a point of blocking the trail.

One very skittish very elderly man had been hit by bikes ridden in a racing tuck three times. I promised he would never be passed by me either direction at more than 5 mph, and he stopped jumping 15 feet off the trail at the sight of me.

In ALL cases, I never stopped to talk to people who were already pissed off. Boogie on, then find them another day for the conversation. The exception to that rule was the day 30 of em had me surrounded before I know they have a problem with me. Boy, one touch would have made my day. Jail him on his convention week. No way I would touch back with 30 of em. You could see the light bulb go on in each brain, as they realized they were now in a lose lose situation if cops came.

 

[Goathead]

A bell to announce that you are approaching makes a big BIG difference.

Speedily, essentially silently, sneaking up on anyone is pretty aggressive in it's own right. YOU know what you're doing, but they don't know that you know.

A bell from 30 to 50 yards back, and a cheery "Good morning" within earshot and I'm part of the community -- even at 20 to 25 mph. (Except one old gal, but she is an exception.)

No help for those wearing headphones. But even dogs respond to a bell . . .

Have to slow for kids. They veer toward the noise.

 

[999zip999]

I use to have sweaky brakes and they were great. but replaced them last week. I wish I had that sweaky bakes back. I guess a rind a ding bell will be next.

 

[The fingers]

People here in the LA area generally don't walk much. But they do drive down the boardwalk in cars mowing down pedestrians.
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/201...connection-with-venice-boardwalk-hit-and-run/



http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=9194866

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Venice-Beach-Crash-Victim-Was-Newlywed-218291681.html


http://www.myfoxla.com/story/23040167/1-dead-11-hurt-as-car-turns-la-seaside-into-chaos

 

[dogman dan]

Took a lot of stop and chats to train my paths headphone wearers that they should walk to the right, so they'd know which side to expect passing on. A new jogger on the path, EVERY TIME, jogging right up the middle. EVERY TIME, they never gave a thought as to how that affected a bike on the path that passes all walkers and joggers, till I mentioned it. Once explained, it makes total sense to them. But somebody has to stop and explain it to every one of them. Then they would jog on the right, and from then on I could pass 90% of the headphone wearers at 20 mph with no issues.

Anybody you don't already know, pass at 5 mph.

 

[dnmun]

get an Airzound horn. or for that guy get the regular full sized double air horn off a mack truck.

 

[MadRhino]

Had to kick one in the ribs, to see if he was still alive.
That was a very long time ago, and I knew the guy

 

[Ykick]

Took a lot of stop and chats to train my paths headphone wearers that they should walk to the right, so they'd know which side to expect passing on. A new jogger on the path, EVERY TIME, jogging right up the middle. EVERY TIME, they never gave a thought as to how that affected a bike on the path that passes all walkers and joggers, till I mentioned it. Once explained, it makes total sense to them. But somebody has to stop and explain it to every one of them. Then they would jog on the right, and from then on I could pass 90% of the headphone wearers at 20 mph with no issues.

Anybody you don't already know, pass at 5 mph.

I've been tempted to have some sort of "free take one" flyer printed and hang 'em by the Bridge path approach I use regularly. My hope is that it can serve as non-confrontational education about path etiquette and ultimately physical safety?

NYPD would probably cite me for littering but a simple to read, multiple language explanation with drawings at bridge entrances might provide a much needed public service?

Many users simply don't know what to do but if they had something to read and study along the route, perhaps they might learn?

And yeah, I totally agree - slowing down is often the best, if not the only way to handle the unexpected....

 

[knighty]

bit off topic

but very few dogs will bite someone who is backing away (or backed into something)

a dog which is barking/growling is warning you away


if they've been making noise, and then suddenly go quiet.... that's when you need to crap your pants and run away


as for pepper spray... most of the time dogs attack it's because they think they're protecting there (bad) owners...

would pepper spray stop you from protecting your family in a life or death of situation ?

 

[QuestionMan]

would pepper spray stop you from protecting your family in a life or death of situation ?

I don't carry pepper spray for dogs, I carry it for humans like in my above situation.

What if this guy decided to attack me, he already walked in front of my bike and we were on a route with nobody around.

 

[xenodius]

Reading this makes me think I should carry something. Though, I am a largeish guy - 190#/6'4" - I feel like I could easily outrun most people in a sprint. My parkour skills aren't as good as they were but I can get around alright mybrother prefers to carry a glock, karambit, 2 mags and practice Kenpo woth a gold sash. I practice running

 

[swbluto]

Are people getting more aggressive in the USA? I'm not sure if it's just me, but it seems some people have been getting more 'aggressive', more ambitious with lies, more thieving, etc.; Wondering if the declining economy and it's effects on jobs might be causing this trend?

I know the job market hasn't been kind to many young adult males and young adult males tend to become more violent/deceptive/cheating when things get harder. Just look at Africa, things are really hard over there for most and quite a few males are killing each other and raping people like there's no tomorrow.

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

Multi Use Paths are funny places.

Some walkers use them to get away. Just slow down to the LCD (lowest Common Denominator) speed and say, "Ding ding on your left" ..or anything -> Nice to know what is speeding up behind.

Diffuse the situation with kindness, might even make a new friend. It happens.

Can only imagine what goes through returning US veterans' minds these days..