California 20mph ebike vs 30mph moped alternative pros & con

[Lemlux]

I've searched and read that California requires no drivers license to ride a 20mph ebike but requires a one-time only $18 moped license plate fee for either an electric powered or gas powered moped (with or without pedals). Permission to ride a moped requires either a M1 motorcycle code on your drivers license or a M2 moped code. The motorcycle license requires a handling test, but I haven't bothered to discover what lower level of testing is needed for a moped license since I have a M1 license.

What I don't know is:

Are there any insurance requirements for a moped or moped rider?

Is an electric moped restricted from paths that an electric bike can use?

To register my project bike as a moped or not is the question. I imagine a moped tag on a bike may discourage police from ticketing 30mph to 40 mph travel on local roads, but I would hate to incur an insurance obligation or off-road bike path use restriction.

Any thoughts from other Californians?

 

[electr0n]

I don't know what the laws are in California but here in Canada a moped requires a license and insurance. Mopeds here are considered motor vehicles and therefore can't ride on bicycle paths etc. I go up to 40kph+ without worrying about getting hassled. I guess it depends where you're riding. I would stay away from registration. That's one of the best things about ebikes, no licensing, no insurance, no gas! Just keep it looking more like a bicycle and pedal, if only for looks. Keep a low profile and don't go flying through traffic attracting attention to yourself.

 

[Ykick]

'seems to change every minute - quite confusing because now there are two definitions for motorized bicycle (moped).

Scroll down mid-page here:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl655/mcycle_htm/operation.htm

Motorized Bicycles

There are two definitions of motorized bicycle (moped). A motorized bicycle is:

* A two- or three-wheeled device, capableofnomorethan30mphon level ground, and equipped with:
o Fully operative pedals for human propulsion.
o A motor producing less than two gross brake horsepower and an automatic transmission.
o An electric motor, with or without pedals for human propulsion. (CVC §406[a])
* A vehicle with pedals and an electric motor (not more than 1,000 watts) which cannot be driven at speeds of more than 20 mph on level ground even if assisted by human power. (CVC §406)

If you operate a motorized bicycle which meets the definition of CVC §406(b), you:

* Must be 16 years of age or older.
* Must wear a properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet.
* Are exempt from the motor vehicle financial responsibility, driver license, and moped plate requirements. (CVC §12804.9)

You may ride a moped in a bicycle laneatareasonablespeed.Becareful of bicyclists using the lane.

And here's the link to VC section 406(a,b)

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc406.htm

It seems like the one time moped license may no longer be required? Damned if I know but I think as long as you wear a helmet and don't jackass around you'll be able to save a lot of money for a lawyer!

 

[Alan B]

Even electric bikes are restricted against using some bicycle paths in the bay area.

 

[nuevomexicano]

I'm not in Cali, but have lots of friends who ride 50cc scooters and mopeds there. Endless-sphere probably isn't the best place to ask your question since every state in the US has different laws and only a few here seem to have much moped experience. Post on the MopedArmy forums where you'll find not just moped riders from Cali, but also people who have built and registered their own and experienced that process. Or for a quicker answer call Myron's Mopeds in Fullerton, (714) 992-5592, they've been around forever. Finally, why not just call your insurance agent and ask for a quote on a policy? I've owned several different 50cc to 500cc scooters over the last couple years and none were more than $100 to insure.

Also, based on my friends in Cali, the road portion of the M1 vs. M2 test is exactly the same. Its just what size bike you ride.

 

[Lemlux]

Thanks, Guys:

From the links I think I can summarize the following:

A 406(b) <= 20 mph ebike is exempt from drivers licensing and insurance ("financial responsibility") requirements.

A 406(a) <=30 mbp ebike is a moped. Mopeds require at least an M2 driver's license for use and use of the moped is not exempt from financial responsibility requirements. (I wonder if one is required to carry an insurance card while driving?)

406(a) and 406(b) ebikes can be ridden in the same places unless further restricted by local laws and/or trail postings.

 

[willfcc]

Check equipment requirements, too. Most times you'll find a moped will be required to have headlights, tail lights, brake-activated stop light, turn signals, DOT rated tires and a Vehicle Identification Number.

 

[Lemlux]

I just found a nice summary of vehicle descriptions and requirements citing relevant CVC sections published by the Crescent City California Police Department.

http://www.electricvehiclemall.com/pdf/CAVehicleCode-scooters.pdf

It asserts that a 406(a) <30mph motorized bike moped:

M2 endorsement required - CVC 12804.9 (5)

Insurance required - CVC 16028(a)

Required to display a special license plate - CVC 5030 & 5037

Driver and Passenger must wear safety helmet meeting standards set by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety - CVC 27803(a) (This means an approved motorcycle helmet - not just a bike helmet- must be worn!)

Exempt from yearly registration renewal - CVC 27803(a)

Motorcycle safety equipment does not appear to be required on a 406(a) vehicle.

 

[sangesf]

FYI, I don't believe there is anywhere in the country that allows you to ride on the sidewalk or bike paths under power..
The only time your allowed on a bike path of sidewalk is under (human power) pedaling ONLY.

 

[nuevomexicano]

FYI, I don't believe there is anywhere in the country that allows you to ride on the sidewalk or bike paths under power..
The only time your allowed on a bike path of sidewalk is under (human power) pedaling ONLY.

Never say never. For instance, in Colorado they are allowed on bike paths (under 20mph, less than 750watts, must have pedals) unless a municipality specifically bans them. Sidewalks are different and some cities actually ban adults from riding on the regular, pedestrian sidewalk even on a purely pedal bike.
http://electricbicycleconversionkits.net/2011/03/colorado-electric-bicycle-laws/

 

[MikeFairbanks]

Mopeds can be a real drag. I rode one for a couple years when I was in highschool in California (North County, San Diego).

I received two tickets on one, and both times had to appear before a judge in juvenile court. I didn't have a license. I was fifteen both times I was pulled over.

Once I had a license, I bought a cheap car.

That doesn't really answer your question, but here's something that might be good information:

Riding a moped is dangerous, at least in Southern California. Here's why:

1. Because it's a moped, it's illegal to ride it in the bike lanes (California has a lot of bike lanes, which is great). Therefore, you are expected to ride it in traffic. This is unreasonable sometimes because the darn things can only go 30mph or so, and that's very slow for a car. Riding a moped you'll often find yourself scooting to the right to let cars pass, and it's just sketchy.

2. If you have an electric bike that is fully legal, well, then you can use the bike lanes, cut across parks, and in general go up and down sidewalks (although it is illegal in many places to ride a bike on the sidewalk, it's very rarely enforced in California...New York City, yes...but not California).

3. Finally, my opinion: Either ride a legal electric bicycle, or buy a scooter than can keep up with cars. 125CC should do the trick. That won't get you on the interstate (called Freeways in CA), but you'll keep up in any town.

A 50cc 30mph moped is the pergatory of transportation. They only work in college towns, and even then just in the downtown areas.

 

[REdiculous]

The 20mph part really gets me - I've gone faster than that on a regular BMX.

Land of the free and the home of the not-that-brave-or-you-get-a-ticket! :lol:

 

[Lemlux]

sangessf:

Publications >> DMV Vehicle Code >> Division 11 >> V C Section 21207.5 Motorized Bicycles Prohibited Operation V C Section 21207.5 Motorized Bicycles Prohibited Operation
V C Section 21207.5 Motorized Bicycles Prohibited Operation
Motorized Bicycles: Prohibited Operation
21207.5. Notwithstanding Sections 21207 and 23127 of this code, or any other provision of law, no motorized bicycle may be operated on a bicycle path or trail, bikeway, bicycle lane established pursuant to Section 21207, equestrian trail, or hiking or recreational trail, unless it is within or adjacent to a roadway or unless the local authority or the governing body of a public agency having jurisdiction over such path or trail permits, by ordinance, such operation.

Amended Ch. 373, Stats. 1979. Effective January 1, 1980.

In the San Diego Area where I live there are many recreational trails that follow the paths of roadways closely enough to be arguably "adjacent to a roadway." There are a few highly developed pedestrian-bike multi-use that are classified as "Class 1" paths that have signage such as the attached that prohibit motorized bicycles. These notably include the two longest bikewaysin the county: the Bayshore Bikeway to Coronado and the San Luis Rey Bikeway in Oceanside. These have well posted signs such as those posted on the cover of the linked Bayshore Bikeway Plan document.

http://www.sandag.org/uploads/projectid/projectid_63_5152.pdf

 

[Alan B]

But is an electric bicycle considered a motorized bicycle?

 

[Lemlux]

Mike: After repairing the broken nose on your school's trike you could donate it to a California senior citizen like me. Section 407 of the California VC states the following:

V C Section 407 Motorized Quadricycle and Motorized Tricycle
Motorized Quadricycle and Motorized Tricycle
407. A "motorized quadricycle" is a four-wheeled device, and a "motorized tricycle" is a three-wheeled device, designed to carry not more than two persons, including the driver, and having either an electric motor or a motor with an automatic transmission developing less than two gross brake horsepower and capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground. The device shall be utilized only by a person who by reason of physical disability is otherwise unable to move about as a pedestrian or by a senior citizen as defined in Section 13000.

Amended Ch. 1292, Stats. 1993. Effective January 1, 1994.

 

[Lemlux]

AlanB:

According to the Crescent City Police link both 406(a) and 406(b) devices are Motorized Bicycles.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

Mike: After repairing the broken nose on your school's trike you could donate it to a California senior citizen like me.

The trike isn't mine. It belongs to the school. I ride it, sure, as I'm the director of the student/teacher project.

Next phase: Rebuild the trike with the new fork (should arrive this coming week).

Then we'll see.

 

[Racer_X]

Lemlux

According to the Crescent City Police link both 406(a) and 406(b) devices are Motorized Bicycles.

But do you really think they enforce it? I can give you an example, In Sweden all electric bikes must have pedelec sensors on the cranks and can not go over 25kmh. Yet I usually cruise between 25kmh to 35kmh through the city and 40+kmh when i am those long streched bike paths similar to the ones you pointed out in the Bayshore Bikeway.
If you are really concerned you can build an electric bike that is really steath (small hub motor small battery) and keep your speed below 15mph when you encounter anyone. but on open road you can punch it! Wahoo!!!
Or get a scooter and be a target to cars, its all up to you. But I would rather risk a ticket than be roadkill.
Oh I forgot, I think you mentioned your a senior citizen, well all the more reason to go electric bike, those San Diego roads are dangerous.

But don't take my opinion too serious I would ask the local San Diego E-bikers like this company http://sdelectricbike.com/
ask the staff and get there opinion on what the rules are and how they are enforced if at all.

According to the Crescent City Police link both 406(a) and 406(b) devices are Motorized Bicycles.

Good luck /L

 

[Lemlux]

Racer:

My most recent reference that a 30mph electric bike-moped was classified as a "motorized bicycle" was in response to Alan B's question that wondered whether an electric moped would be considered as a motorized bicycle and, hence, be allowed to ride on paths adjacent to roads as specified in DMV VC Section 21207.5.

The tradeoff for me seems to boil down as follows:

1. 30mph Mopeds can legally ride anywhere a 20mph electric bike can ride unless specifically restricted by local ordinance.

2. A moped license makes me legal between 20mph and 30mph and unlikely to be ticketed between 30mph and 40mph if I don't exceed traffic speed. At these higher speeds I'd be much less threatened by automotive traffic on the roads and streets I'd be riding.

3. The tradeoff cost for the additional layer of law enforcement avoidance is:
a. the one-time $18 license plate
b. annual incremental insurance of perhaps $100. (I had to pay about $600 extra when I drove a motorcyle, and I'll talk to my insurance agent next week.)
c. I'd have to wear my motorcycle helmet rather than my bicycle helmet. I already have a no incremental cost M1 motorcycle drivers license endorsement.

I'm leaning toward the moped registration.

 

[Alan B]

This is confusing since my understanding is that federal regulations define an electric bicycle as a bicycle, not a motorized bicycle.

Reading these regulations is not totally useful because the interpretation is key, and various things determine that, not what we might read.

Do mopeds require DOT components and VIN numbers? It may not be practical to register an electric bicycle as a moped unless you start by building on a moped frame. Or is that what you are planning?

You can ride an electric bicycle on a restricted to bicycles path by pedaling with the motor off. A moped is not allowed there at all. Mopeds are not very practical to pedal due to the weight and lack of proper gearing. The moped I had weighed 100 pounds and the pedals were only for starting the engine.

Travelling over 30 mph on a moped is ticket territory. If going to that risk, why not just get or build an electric motorcycle?

Or get one of each.

I just had a thought. Build a pedelec sensor that when pedaling allows speeds over 20. Build the ebike to do up to say 35 mph. When not pedaling it limits to 20. When pedaling it allows the higher speed. Never mind...

 

[Lemlux]

I want and need the exercise. I will build on a bike frame. Its my understanding that powertrain dictates 2-wheel classification in California. I'm planning on using a Schlumpf planetary geared crank with 27t sprocket and a 2.5 : 1 overdrive. This will be equivalent to a 67.5t - 27t sprocket with perhaps 5% overdrive energy loss. I'll use an 11t - 30t freewheel. Thus, I'll be able to pedal at high speed and climb hills if the battery is exhausted. In fact, I'm considering getting 155mm crank arms for the setup in order to increase comfortable cadence and to reduce arthritic knee and hip aching vs the 175mm crank arms on my current bike.

I'll use either 1 or 2 HS hubs driven by 72V 45A controllers and an 24S Headway pack sized somewhere between 20Ah and 32Ah

 

[nuevomexicano]

This is confusing since my understanding is that federal regulations define an electric bicycle as a bicycle, not a motorized bicycle....

The key to clearing up some confusion is to realize that individual states, not the Federal government, register and license vehicles. The Fed definition of bicycle is mostly for importation and manufacturer's minimum standards of motor vehicles and bicycles. Furthermore, individual states and municipalities can also further restrict or allow things like electric bicycles on trails, in open space, on the beach, etc... and even require people to register all bicycles.

...Reading these regulations is not totally useful because the interpretation is key, and various things determine that, not what we might read...

Interpretation is indeed the key. That's why sometimes people get tickets (not just for bicycles or motos, but all kinds of tickets) and even arrested by cops who rarely know the entirety of the laws they're enforcing. It gets sorted out in court, which of course costs the one ticketed time and/or money. I know many moped and scooter riders who carry a copy of the state statutes when riding in a state that doesn't require things like plates or registration. I have friends who ride 50cc mopeds and scooters in states that don't require plates that bought ebay vanity plates that say "moped" or "50cc" so they were less likely to get pulled over. And it gets even more fun when you start riding across state lines!

...Do mopeds require DOT components and VIN numbers? It may not be practical to register an electric bicycle as a moped unless you start by building on a moped frame. Or is that what you are planning?..

Yes, mopeds require/have a VIN. Starting with a moped frame isn't a bad idea. Or even starting with a larger scooter or motorcycle frame is an option. Another option is what the OP mentioned in the first post; registering it as a home built vehicle. That's an option in many states, though the specific rules and how onerous the state makes it vary widely. Some states require very little to get a VIN issued for, title and register a home built vehicle. Others make it nearly impossible. Personally, I don't know the California process.

...You can ride an electric bicycle on a restricted to bicycles path by pedaling with the motor off. A moped is not allowed there at all. Mopeds are not very practical to pedal due to the weight and lack of proper gearing. The moped I had weighed 100 pounds and the pedals were only for starting the engine...

Indeed, modern mopeds are meant to pedal start, not pedal power. This fact seems to elude many would-be moped owners who have never ridden one. They'd do better walking and pushing a broken down moped than trying to pedal it any distance.