CroBorg Super Commuter

Fun with Temporary Battery Packs

or, Fun with Bricks ;)

I have a few 8 amp hour Zippy packs. Two 6S and three 5S. At the moment I have a temporary pack made from the three 5S to give 15S. I was thinking I might get another 5S or 6S pack so I could make 18S or 20S. But I could, without buying anything, do 5+6+5+6 for 22S. I am not crazy about 24S due to the lack of voltage margin, but 22S might be a nice spot to try! Also 6+5+6 for 17S is not bad.
 
Alan B said:
Matching the FETs is a job for the controller manufacturer. Selecting them from the same manufacturing batch should be pretty close.
Click to expand...

Should be but I've seen quite a variance that is surprisingly large and others that are all really close.
 
Package arrived with 12FET backup controller. Really fast shipping from Lyen! I put connectors on to match the CroBorg.

I also made a Cycle Analyst extension cable that doesn't have the throttle control wire in it. So just by manipulating plugs I can disable that feature since it is not working right yet in my CA. I used the small crimper from Sparkfun. It worked GREAT on the JST connectors used for the CA. It really helps to have the right tool. Makes those connectors a pleasure to work with.

So tomorrow we'll see if the CroBorg works again at 15S... Maybe this weekend I can give a go at 22S. :)

I sent the folks at Yasusu an email asking them which end should go where. They replied with an apology that some parts were delayed. On well. Clearly not English majors. :)

I'll just go ahead and try it the other way.
 
Alan,
For crimpers, the right tool indeed makes a big difference. Does the SparkFun crimper also work for the JST connectors used for balance wires, which I believe are JST XH? I have a crimper that is OK for the JST SM connectors as used for the cycle analyst. It is also OK for the male JST XH pins, but is real struggle for the JST XH female connectors.
Rich
 
I have not tried the crimper on the JST-XH female pins. I hope it does work on them. That's one of the reasons I got it. Turns out that the JST-SM pins used for the Cycle Analyst seemed to fit the largest of the crimp spots, something like 1.9mm. This crimper has about four sites, 1.0, 1.3, 1.6 and 1.9mm if I remember correctly. Which one do you think is needed for JST-XH female?

At lunchtime I tried to swap the shock over, but it won't fit the other way. The swingarm doesn't have enough clearance for the ends of the shock. I had a similar problem at the upper end, I had to file a bunch to get it to fit. There needs to be more clearance to fit these shocks with wide heads and fairly short necks. So I don't really have an option to turn this one over. Fixing that would be difficult as it would require removing metal from some pretty solid material.
 
Took a spin around the neighborhood last evening. Great way to meet people, riding around on an unusual looking bike on a warm Saturday evening. Met some neighbors a few blocks away who were quite impressed with the setup.

Today I'm going to try 22S. If that works I'll take a longer ride, the three bears loop around a couple of lakes here, with three increasingly challenging hills. I should get regen going for this. Charging batteries now. It will be 6S+5S+6S+5S at 8AH for 670 watt hours. That will make 22 miles at 30 watt hours per mile, so I'll have to stay under 30 wh/mi to make this 22 mile ride. Or pedal home.
 
The Three Bears Loop

IMG_20120617_113708.jpg


I hooked up regen this morning, and made up a 22S 8AH pack of Zippy Lipo. Then I readjusted the Cycle Analyst beta3 to 2 milliohm shunt.

I tested the regen as I rolled out. No dice. I guess the programming is not set for it. This 12 FET is still on factory settings.

With this battery pack and facing a 23 mile ride with plenty of climbing I decided to take it easy and pedal a lot.

22S was a bit over 90 volts to start. Running high voltage makes many changes to the system. It not only goes faster, it dumps more power and the throttle is more sensitive. It is more difficult and tiring to manage the throttle.

But it does dump lots of power. I saw peaks of about 5-6kw. Nothing popped. I tried to keep it down as I needed economy on this run. My average speed was 16 mph, and that included some fast downhill runs. The CA indicates my top speed to be well over 100 mph, but I only remember getting to about 40 mph on a big downhill. The handling at speed was sure-footed and smooth.

This ride is a bit rough in spots, this is very rural pavement. The suspension and cloud9 seat soaked it up and made a comfy ride. A thin layer of gravel on the pavement didn't bother the traction, the tires just felt planted. Very nice feeling. Not like the sketchy feeling one gets with bicycle tires in gravel.

Beautiful day for a nice ride. I noticed that the young cyclists are interested in the ebike and start talking about how they could use one, where the older cyclists say you are cheating. The younger folks are embracing technology to a larger degree and they don't see it in quite the purist way. The electric bicycle is a different vehicle than the road bikes they were enjoying today. And commuting is a different purpose than a Sunday ride. I did enjoy blowing by them at 20 mph on a long uphill, though, and they didn't seem to mind at all. :)

This Cromotor is really something. It wanted to leap ahead, speed up. I felt as though I was holding it back the whole time. And I was, to make the power budget, which I did make but the voltage was starting to drop at the end, so I think it was close. The CA claims only 6 amp hours were used of 8, but the voltage tells a different story. I suspect the shunt is not calibrated well enough yet.

I checked controller and motor temperatures a few times with the bare hand test. The motor never got above barely warm. The controller got quite warm on the long uphill climbs. Not hot, but almost hot. You could hold your hand on it without discomfort. Based on that I think the 12 FET is okay for a backup but not the best choice for a totally reliable primary controller for the Cromotor at 22s. The 24 FET never got warm, and it felt stronger as it was dialed to higher current.

I didn't try a full speed run, but with 22S it wanted to zip right up to 30mph and was still pulling when I backed off.

All in all it was a great ride. Happy Father's Day! Time to BBQ! :)
 
Hello Alan, great build, been following it, i ordered a ATS speed drive from accountant for my own build but unfortunately it has 2 bent lugs, any ideas what they did to repair your drive? Im really disappointed as i was looking forward to installing the drive. heres more pix on this thread,

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=40296&p=598675#p598675

Any help appreciated
 

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Thanks Alan sorry to hijack your thread I might try and straighten it by squashing that part in a large metal vice I have. Il see what accountant says first as don't want to mess anything up

Sent using Endless-Sphere Mobile app
 
Hi Alan-

Can you do me favor take it look at single freewheel

It's on dealextreme, I don't know if this is the one will fit on the CroMotor?
 
Made up a different "temporary" battery pack. This one has 12S 8AH and 15S 8AH both in the same pack using 2x 6S and 3x 5S Zippy 8AH batteries. The pack is 6x6x8 inches and fits nicely in the upper battery storage area. It is a bit too wide for the side panels but not in the way for pedaling.

I just took it for a spin with 12S. It was still gently accelerating at 26 mph on the level, and on the 10% grade it made 11-12 mph with no pedaling using the 12 FET controller.

The 24 FET controller had one shorted FET which has been repaired and it will be back from the doctor shortly.
 
Brought the rig to work today (on the vehicle, didn't ride in), and showed it off at the noontime safety display. They had some bike vendors, etc. It did well, no popped FETs this time. :)

Lots of interest from folks.

Another news flash - the Regen IS working! It didn't seem to be the other day when I installed it, but it is now. I do feel a shifting the first time I apply it, so it may be loosening the nuts. I just tightened them, I do think they shifted a bit. So that's not good.
 
Working on the battery layout. My original plan just doesn't quite fit. Very close but not enough room for the wiring. This was based on fitting 6x2 of the 6S 5AH bricks into the upper compartment. If there were no wires on the packs they would fit, but that would defeat the purpose of having them. :)

So on to plan B. The pack will be made up of three modules, each having four 6S 5AH bricks in parallel. These modules will be wired in series for 18S or about 70 volts at 20 amp hours, or about 1.4 KWH. Two of these modules will fit in the upper battery volume. The third will half fill the lower battery volume, leaving about half of it for a charging system or other.
 
Hi Alan,

First of all, very nice thread. I am about to pull the trigger on a Cromotor, and I learned a lot by reading your whole thread.

Regarding the regen - what kind of torque arms are you using? The inevitable wobbling of the axle will loosening the nuts in no time. With double Ebike.ca torque arms on each side of the axle, my HT3525 (when it was still working) would still wobble between accelleration and regen.




Alan B said:
Brought the rig to work today (on the vehicle, didn't ride in), and showed it off at the noontime safety display. They had some bike vendors, etc. It did well, no popped FETs this time. :)

Lots of interest from folks.

Another news flash - the Regen IS working! It didn't seem to be the other day when I installed it, but it is now. I do feel a shifting the first time I apply it, so it may be loosening the nuts. I just tightened them, I do think they shifted a bit. So that's not good.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the comments.

No torque arms at this time. The Greyborg frame dropouts are specified to handle the Cromotor if it is all the way forward into them. They are Chrome Moly Steel and quite thick.

I have NordLock lockwashers installed, and it did not transition over a step on them, but it did move a little, so I think it is a problem. I will probably add the Kiwi torque arm and then I could oppose the free play in the dropouts vs the torque arm and eliminate the motion. In the meantime I am going to reduce the use of regen and tighten those nuts frequently.

I do have a problem in that there is no room for a torque arm unless I take the disc adapter off the motor which I will do. The newer Cromotors have longer axles so you will have more space.

Kiwi is working on a new disc with a thinner adapter that might work for the rear, I want a rear disc brake which won't fit right now. He needs 3 more orders to make them.
 
Be carefull if you are using heavy moped wheels and tires with a strong brake/regen. You gotta make sure you have the axle well fitted specially on the disk side, otherwise the axle might move a little when you are in the air and hit the brakes hard.
Its alot of energy to deal with.


PS: its a general advice not related to the warp frame only.
 
Can you post a link to a thread with that new adapter ...
Well appreciated :mrgreen:

Alan B said:
Kiwi is working on a new disc with a thinner adapter that might work for the rear, I want a rear disc brake which won't fit right now. He needs 3 more orders to make them.
Click to expand...
 
hjns said:
Can you post a link to a thread with that new adapter ...
Well appreciated :mrgreen:

Alan B said:
Kiwi is working on a new disc with a thinner adapter that might work for the rear, I want a rear disc brake which won't fit right now. He needs 3 more orders to make them.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25459&p=602057#p602057

scroll up about half a dozen postings in the above thread.
 
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