Oldboy
10 W
All good Rix mate , I've decided to drop the ball on the project now anyway but thanks for letting us know that anyway .
E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners
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Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
I've been browsing the instructions for setting up a nucular controller. I'm pretty sure I'll have it all figured out by about next October. It'll take me that long to work up the courage to try and install it. It makes setting up a kelly controller look like kindergarten. At least the wiring looks pretty straight forward. One nice thing is I already have XT150s on my motor.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
In my mind exhaust resonance tuning on a gas bike, is equivalent to field weakening on an eBike.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
On Youtube there's only one eBike brand with videos using Nucular controllers. Guess which one? SurRon again. Looks like SurRon's love Nucular controllers. One video I watched they said with a stock battery their range was doubled from 30 to 60 miles. They claim now the bike will do power wheelies at 30 mph, and top speed went from 44 to 58 mph.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
Sounds interesting, no?
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
FOC — field-oriented control of the motor. Apprently if you know this much you're already ahead of most people. Nucular is a FOC controller
This is one mans explaination of it.
In my very basic understanding:
Maximum torque/efficiency is achieved when the magnetic forces are tangential to the rotor, with no radial component. The radial component applies no useable force, and is wasted energy = heat.
Since the motor coils are inductors, there is a phase lag between voltage and current. And the magnetic field is created by current, not voltage.
Pure sinusoidal control doesn't take this into account, and applies voltage to the coils according to rotor position only. So the magnetic field (current) is slightly lagging and not optimised for maximum efficiency. Some energy is wasted as that non-usable radial force.
FOC measures/calculates that phase lag, and uses that information to adjust the applied voltage so the current (magnetic field) is optimised, in order to maximise the tangential forces and minimise the radial forces.
This is one mans explaination of it.
In my very basic understanding:
Maximum torque/efficiency is achieved when the magnetic forces are tangential to the rotor, with no radial component. The radial component applies no useable force, and is wasted energy = heat.
Since the motor coils are inductors, there is a phase lag between voltage and current. And the magnetic field is created by current, not voltage.
Pure sinusoidal control doesn't take this into account, and applies voltage to the coils according to rotor position only. So the magnetic field (current) is slightly lagging and not optimised for maximum efficiency. Some energy is wasted as that non-usable radial force.
FOC measures/calculates that phase lag, and uses that information to adjust the applied voltage so the current (magnetic field) is optimised, in order to maximise the tangential forces and minimise the radial forces.
Also, an FOC controller's throttle is modulating the phase current to the motor directly, rather than the average voltage to the motor. This gives more precise control of the motor by the rider with FOC.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
Someone shoot me now
Lebowski
For me FOC means that (when powering) the motor current vector is lined up with the Back EMF vector, for max efficiency. During regen the current vector is lined up with the Stator voltage vector, again for max efficiency. This is called SOC, Stator Oriented Control.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
I noticed the Nucular insrtuctions talk about 4 types of throttle operation.
You can select the following types of throttle and brake presets:
Linear — smooth increase, direct dependence.
Exponential — slow increase.
Normal — average between linear and exponential.
Polynomial — average between normal and exponential.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
If you don't understand FOC controllers you're in good company, it seems like the only people that do are phd level. Luckily we don't have to fully understand the tecnology to utilize it. After a crash course last night I now have a very rudimentary understanding. All I really care about is it's more efficent, offers more power, less heat, and less power consumption, or another way to look at it is some real smart mofos found a way to put magic in a box.
Allex
100 MW
Nice that you got the NUC now. At the beginning is seems very overwhelming, but you will get there, it is easier than lacing up a wheel.
Also join their telegram chat group, you will get help very fast with over 400 members. Link: Nucular Electronics
What I have connected is:
Screen to the controller.
Throttle into the screen
Regen into screen.
Thats it, three wires then of course you have 3 phase and 6 hall wires that goes to motor on top of that.
Oh yeah, then next level would be to charge the battery through the controller.. Then you will see cool stuff on tisplay like, how many amps/watts flows into it. And a nice feuture I like is how much km you can drive at current state of charge. Thats actually my favourite.
Also join their telegram chat group, you will get help very fast with over 400 members. Link: Nucular Electronics
What I have connected is:
Screen to the controller.
Throttle into the screen
Regen into screen.
Thats it, three wires then of course you have 3 phase and 6 hall wires that goes to motor on top of that.
Oh yeah, then next level would be to charge the battery through the controller.. Then you will see cool stuff on tisplay like, how many amps/watts flows into it. And a nice feuture I like is how much km you can drive at current state of charge. Thats actually my favourite.
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Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
Thanks Allex, I'm looking forward to it. I'm not even planning to use regen. What I think I'm going to enjoy the most is finally having a display I can actually see when riding. My bike is so fast and smooth now that I can't really tell 35 from 55 mph. It's going to be nice for the first time ever to have a speedo I can see.
I do like my Kelly controller a lot though.
I do like my Kelly controller a lot though.
Allex
100 MW
Other nice thing is that you can throw two of your favorite measurement to main display, want the used or remaining Ah/Wh to be shown? You can put it in. You want max speed or voltage, yeah that works too.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
That's cool alright.
What type of throttle operation do you like best?
Linear — smooth increase, direct dependence.
Exponential — slow increase.
Normal — average between linear and exponential.
Polynomial — average between normal and exponential.
Those are just response curves, which determine how much current you get at what throttle position. Which one is better for you depends on your preferences and usage scenario(s); if it lets you change it then you can try each one and see what you like best.
field weakening is basically a trade off no free lunch, more top speed less torque. I don’t think you will care that much because you’re on road so foc would be good for you. Btw that surron guy is F.O.C. No way in hell are you doubling mileage going to a nuc. The controller may be more efficient than a stock one esp if he had one of the og square wave controllers…unless the guy is reducing power by 3/4...as Brak says never trust a monkey!!
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
Yeah I figure he was exaggerating too. That being said, I feel like I'm getting better range With the Kelly than I was with the stock controller, but it seems dependant on what speed I'm riding. At super low speed range seems about the same, but there seems to be a sweet spot between 25 and 30 mph where it gets better range than before. At high speed it sucks the power either way.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
It's here. I ordered it at the end of last July, and gave it up for dead about a month ago, but here it is, TaDa
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Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
I find this interesting. My first impression when I picked the nuc up out of the box was how heavy it felt. I decided to weight it compared to the stock controller. I wasn't imagining it, the stock controller is 35 oz. The nuc is physically smaller, but weights 47 oz, 12 oz more.
litespeed
100 kW
What I noticed going from a Adaptto to a Nuc 24 was the motor was substantially cooler and more powerful at the same setting. 14KW on the Adaptto felt like 10KW on the Nuc. That said it is definitely more efficient than the Adaptto and that was after years of adjusting the MaxE for efficiency using the videos that Doctorbass created. Nuc did it pretty much plug and play. You literally plug it all in, run an auto-setup and go….there are some settings you have to do but it’s pretty intuitive once you start navigating the software.
Great product…..once the BMS is available nothing, and I repeat nothing on the market will compare.
Looking forward to your results TV.
Tom
Great product…..once the BMS is available nothing, and I repeat nothing on the market will compare.
Looking forward to your results TV.
Tom
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
That sounds encourging Tom. I'm not going to get in a hurry, I just rebuild my bike last October, and it's running great now with a Kelly controller, and QS205 motor.
What would be you guess for setting my phase current, if I set the nuc for 100 battery amps?
litespeed
100 kW
I would start at 175 up to 225 phase amps to start.
Tom
Tom
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
That sounds reasonable. The nuc instructions suggest 1 1/2 to 2 times battery current, and I was planning 100 amps battery current.
