It definitely helps the front brake on my SB Cruiser.
electric worksman front-loader cargo trike
- Thread starter eobanb
- Start date
LI-ghtcycle
10 MW
Very kewl to see some worksman trikes being converted! 
They are by far my favorite US manufacturer of trikes, and bicycles in general (been making them longer than Schwinn even!), as they never went over-seas with their manufacturing. 8)
http://www.worksmancycles.com/
[youtube]zzPK-DIlIyE[/youtube]
I have been considering electrifying some of their more traditional deltas like this one:
To the OP, I would strongly advise that you talk with worksman about getting some brakes for the front wheels, (drum brakes might be an option) in the factory environment at the ford plant, the original design made sense, out on the road climbing steep hills with heavy loads, it would be an accident waiting to happen IMHO.
On any vehicle where your load is, there is your best potential braking, I believe having only one break, and particularly the rear being the only source of braking is a very bad situation, even at slow speeds, heavy loads can cause serious injury, from a potential liability situation alone for you, your employees, or possibly injuring a by-stander, I would listen to your instinct, one rim brake on the rear, no matter how good, won't be enough.
I have lower weight on my cargo bikes (recumbent Vision R40 was my first, then I went to pulling a trailer as I didn't like the handling of the bike with heavy loads attached), and they are more traditional bikes built for the road, but I think what you all are doing is great!
I especially love the House Greening trike design in that you have modified it for use with more traditional bicycle bars and such, and just as DS said, making a disc break mount is easy (you can buy a ready made disc tab to weld right to the frame for the rear, and most modern DD hub motors come equipped with disc mounts, DD hub motor is probably your best bet since you don't need speed, just grunt to get going at slow speeds).
However, with the very heavy trikes, and potentially heavy loads they will carry, your best bet IMHO is to get brakes set up on all wheels.
Rim (V-brake style) would be the most cost effective and simple for the rear, and possibly doing discs on the two front wheels would require less fabrication, but especially as 75% of your breaking power is in the front, not having brakes on the front is really scary. (especially if you have to go down-hill for any distance!
I live near a 2 mile long hill with 7% grades )
Here is a good supplier for said disc brake tabs that would then be welded to the frame:
http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/home.php
Here is a direct link to the part (you may need a different style of tab depending on your frame, I bought 2 to make sure I had what I needed, they are pretty inexpensive, and I ended up using the second one once I fitted it to the frame for welding).
Here is the tab welded to the frame:
We recently built up a 114 lb cruiser bike that we plan to put some serious power through the DD as mid-drive, and I only mention this since our bike is near the unladen weight of your trikes, but right now it is hauling a trailer at moderate speeds, and disc breaks (standard 120mm) have been more than enough, even at high speed (35mph in testing) however, most of the time, I only go around 10 - 15 mph while hauling a trailer with about 100 - 200 lbs of combined cargo/trailer weight, even up a very steep long hill (2 miles 3 - 7% grade) this is with disc brakes front & rear with just standard cables & leavers, not hydraulic.
I will be very interested to see what solutions you come up with!
They are by far my favorite US manufacturer of trikes, and bicycles in general (been making them longer than Schwinn even!), as they never went over-seas with their manufacturing. 8)
http://www.worksmancycles.com/
[youtube]zzPK-DIlIyE[/youtube]
I have been considering electrifying some of their more traditional deltas like this one:
To the OP, I would strongly advise that you talk with worksman about getting some brakes for the front wheels, (drum brakes might be an option) in the factory environment at the ford plant, the original design made sense, out on the road climbing steep hills with heavy loads, it would be an accident waiting to happen IMHO.
On any vehicle where your load is, there is your best potential braking, I believe having only one break, and particularly the rear being the only source of braking is a very bad situation, even at slow speeds, heavy loads can cause serious injury, from a potential liability situation alone for you, your employees, or possibly injuring a by-stander, I would listen to your instinct, one rim brake on the rear, no matter how good, won't be enough.
I have lower weight on my cargo bikes (recumbent Vision R40 was my first, then I went to pulling a trailer as I didn't like the handling of the bike with heavy loads attached), and they are more traditional bikes built for the road, but I think what you all are doing is great!
I especially love the House Greening trike design in that you have modified it for use with more traditional bicycle bars and such, and just as DS said, making a disc break mount is easy (you can buy a ready made disc tab to weld right to the frame for the rear, and most modern DD hub motors come equipped with disc mounts, DD hub motor is probably your best bet since you don't need speed, just grunt to get going at slow speeds).
However, with the very heavy trikes, and potentially heavy loads they will carry, your best bet IMHO is to get brakes set up on all wheels.
Rim (V-brake style) would be the most cost effective and simple for the rear, and possibly doing discs on the two front wheels would require less fabrication, but especially as 75% of your breaking power is in the front, not having brakes on the front is really scary. (especially if you have to go down-hill for any distance!
I live near a 2 mile long hill with 7% grades )Here is a good supplier for said disc brake tabs that would then be welded to the frame:
http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/home.php
Here is a direct link to the part (you may need a different style of tab depending on your frame, I bought 2 to make sure I had what I needed, they are pretty inexpensive, and I ended up using the second one once I fitted it to the frame for welding).
Here is the tab welded to the frame:
We recently built up a 114 lb cruiser bike that we plan to put some serious power through the DD as mid-drive, and I only mention this since our bike is near the unladen weight of your trikes, but right now it is hauling a trailer at moderate speeds, and disc breaks (standard 120mm) have been more than enough, even at high speed (35mph in testing) however, most of the time, I only go around 10 - 15 mph while hauling a trailer with about 100 - 200 lbs of combined cargo/trailer weight, even up a very steep long hill (2 miles 3 - 7% grade) this is with disc brakes front & rear with just standard cables & leavers, not hydraulic.
I will be very interested to see what solutions you come up with!
housegreening
1 µW
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2016
- Messages
- 3
Wow! Thanks to all who've chimed in.
I had no idea that hydraulic brakes even existed! Makes total sense that the most braking power will come at the rim. I am definitely not skidding the tire when brakes are applied. One issue with a hydraulic setup is that my lever also has a wire that travels to the controller and shuts off the motor when it's engaged. That might be a tough one to overcome.
I think I will try the jagwire setup first since it's so inexpensive. I would imagine it could be used with a disc brake setup as well if I continue in that direction. I'm ordering one today so will post again once installed.
I had no idea that hydraulic brakes even existed! Makes total sense that the most braking power will come at the rim. I am definitely not skidding the tire when brakes are applied. One issue with a hydraulic setup is that my lever also has a wire that travels to the controller and shuts off the motor when it's engaged. That might be a tough one to overcome.
I think I will try the jagwire setup first since it's so inexpensive. I would imagine it could be used with a disc brake setup as well if I continue in that direction. I'm ordering one today so will post again once installed.
Chalo
100 TW
In checking over your photos, it's clear that you have a freestyle brake lever (for caliper brakes). I assume this is because you needed a lever with a hinged clamp and perhaps one for a 1" handlebar diameter. But it's absolutely the wrong lever for a V-brake.
However, you can rectify its incorrect pull ratio with a gizmo called a Problem Solvers Travel Agent. That allows you multiply the cable travel by a factor of 2, making your freestyle lever compatible with a V-brake.
A booster is a great idea; using low compression housing is fine (though it makes little difference in my observation). But neither of these things will help nearly as much as using a lever that matches the requirements of the brake.
However, you can rectify its incorrect pull ratio with a gizmo called a Problem Solvers Travel Agent. That allows you multiply the cable travel by a factor of 2, making your freestyle lever compatible with a V-brake.
A booster is a great idea; using low compression housing is fine (though it makes little difference in my observation). But neither of these things will help nearly as much as using a lever that matches the requirements of the brake.
easy to fix the lever--there are hydraulic (hydro) levers with switches or addins that go inline. Es has a few threads that mentiono them if you poke around. Or just add a button switch or a magnet and reed or hall to the new lever. Or to the caliper; doesn't matter where it is.
Adverse Effects
10 W
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2016
- Messages
- 73
i haven't read the full thread but why not disk brake the front wheels and hub motor with heavy regen on the back wheel?
i am sure you can find a wireless type of thing for the throttle (they use them on the E-skateboards)
i am sure you can find a wireless type of thing for the throttle (they use them on the E-skateboards)
Chalo
100 TW
Adverse Effects said:
Because the hubs aren't compatible with discs, and the axles are specific to those hubs. Making the wheels and axles disc-ready would take a lot of fabrication work compared to other options.
In the case of unequal braking on the front wheels, there would be a large steering input towards the side with more braking force, due to the pivoting axle (as opposed to Ackermann steering like a car). Separate brakes on the front wheels would make this inevitable as brakes fall out of adjustment or become contaminated, even when they're both applied by the same lever.
Front wheel braking is a good idea, but it really should be a single brake that acts equally on both wheels. That's why I suggested spoon brakes, like those on a hand truck:
housegreening
1 µW
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2016
- Messages
- 3
Chalo said:In checking over your photos, it's clear that you have a freestyle brake lever (for caliper brakes). I assume this is because you needed a lever with a hinged clamp and perhaps one for a 1" handlebar diameter. But it's absolutely the wrong lever for a V-brake.
However, you can rectify its incorrect pull ratio with a gizmo called a Problem Solvers Travel Agent. That allows you multiply the cable travel by a factor of 2, making your freestyle lever compatible with a V-brake.
A booster is a great idea; using low compression housing is fine (though it makes little difference in my observation). But neither of these things will help nearly as much as using a lever that matches the requirements of the brake.
Roger that! Thanks!
eforce
1 µW
Here's the Worksman Front Loader music trike I put together this summer. Calling it either the Beat Bike or the Trickshaw. Using a Leaf Bike 1500 watt motor kit, DD motor with low speed winding and their 12 Mosfet controller with an EM3EV battery pack (14S-8P 30Q cells). Also carrying around a ridiculous 130lb AGM Lifeline RV battery to power the sound system. Need to change that, and work on better brakes as well as a new sound system.
I used the Evolution V-brake clamp on mounts I ordered through Porkchop BMX but the seat stays on my Worksman were too thin for the clamps so I had a friend weld some metal sleeves to increase the tube diameter allowing the clamp on mounts to work.
Thanks for all the good discussion on stopping a Worksman Front Loader e-trike, getting mine to go was the easy part. And great to see you using one of Jason's EBO motor kits Housegreening
I used the Evolution V-brake clamp on mounts I ordered through Porkchop BMX but the seat stays on my Worksman were too thin for the clamps so I had a friend weld some metal sleeves to increase the tube diameter allowing the clamp on mounts to work.
Thanks for all the good discussion on stopping a Worksman Front Loader e-trike, getting mine to go was the easy part. And great to see you using one of Jason's EBO motor kits Housegreening
Attachments
eforce
1 µW
Chalo
100 TW
WoodlandHills said:
It will help a bit, but not as much as using the correct lever. And it will cost more and be harder to install.
