Noslisu Tilting Cargo Trike

[gromike]

Recently I became transfixed with the idea of front loading tilting cargo trikes. I have need to fill a critical transportation issue in my life and this style of a cargo bike/trike will do it, at least I so believe. In my search for this style of machine I ran across the Noslisu Cargo Trike from Kawasaki. It was released this summer and is only available in Japan.
Suffice to say, I want one.

This thing is equipped with a 36v 180w rear geared hub motor, which is laughably underpowered IMHO. It appears that in Japan anything more powerful is subject to licensing. I would remotor it with a larger wattage direct drive motor and a 52v system. In my mind a DD motor with regen braking is the right motor for this style of trike. The front loading tilting cargo trikes heretofore that I found were all mid-drives, with slightly less ridiculous power and speed restrictions. I really wouldn't want to pay $10K for something that wasn't "fixable". It retails in Japan for $3k. Can't find it here, but I am in .

 

[calab]

Gmac would be the best, or the 27mm dd motor called 212 (or something) or the Leaf dd 35mm (1500w) has more mass for better cooling and get the right kv. Your rear dropouts look like mine, but using Grintech ta's on them is easy.

 

[amberwolf]

You might check out Hodala's thread about his tilting system. It is interesting.

https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/leaning-trike-cargo-bike-front-end-kit.86613/

You could adapt it to a remote steering version like the Noslisu to expand the cargo area.

 

[hodala]

Look at the geometry seems not good,no king pin inclination, its lean angle less than my trike, no front absorber

 

[DaLanMan]

The issue I am running into with what I have found thus far:
1) The designs that are around work. However have fatal material flaws. No I can not explain. i am parroting the statements of a fabrication specialist. I keep sending images and once he says he will build it, I will bring in some nice folks that owe me favors and will work the project because they are nerds and love me.
2) Lots of solutions work.. for very light loads, they are not materially or engineering challenged, they just rely on various factors that lack scale. Despite dropping 70 pounds since diagnosis. I weigh in at 260 still (yes, I am huge, and no, wasn't very fat before. I spent my youth doing physical things and it stuck) add 260 pounds, to the hundred odd pounds of kit I am gonna have strapped to a standard bike and we are at mechanical failure for many designs.
3) I can afford to build this, I just however will not spend "decent used car money" There are folks producing a solution that I could use... but they well, most of them *start* at 15k. I just can't do that for something that was built for about 2. I get profit. Just don't try to make it all off the disabled and physically challenged (I will cut the commentary there, but just mentally back fill a half hour of cursing)
4) I can't wait for the industry to cough up a solution. I am fighting health and time. I am ok with where this road ends.. I just don't want to get there on a walker.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

The issue I am running into with what I have found thus far:
1) The designs that are around work. However have fatal material flaws. No I can not explain. i am parroting the statements of a fabrication specialist. I keep sending images and once he says he will build it, I will bring in some nice folks that owe me favors and will work the project because they are nerds and love me.
2) Lots of solutions work.. for very light loads, they are not materially or engineering challenged, they just rely on various factors that lack scale. Despite dropping 70 pounds since diagnosis. I weigh in at 260 still (yes, I am huge, and no, wasn't very fat before. I spent my youth doing physical things and it stuck) add 260 pounds, to the hundred odd pounds of kit I am gonna have strapped to a standard bike and we are at mechanical failure for many designs.
3) I can afford to build this, I just however will not spend "decent used car money" There are folks producing a solution that I could use... but they well, most of them *start* at 15k. I just can't do that for something that was built for about 2. I get profit. Just don't try to make it all off the disabled and physically challenged (I will cut the commentary there, but just mentally back fill a half hour of cursing)
4) I can't wait for the industry to cough up a solution. I am fighting health and time. I am ok with where this road ends.. I just don't want to get there on a walker.

Given your stated body limitations, do you need to travel at speeds above 20km/hr in a turn? The one time it all goes wrong (due to some car driver - not your choice), will you lose the ability to ride (or walk) at all? And if so, would it be better to choose a solution that doesn't involve high-speed cornering to avoid being in jeopardy?

That might relieve you of the need to have a leaning trike, and increase your options. The Greenspeed Magnum XL is designed for large weights, and a static frame of your own design should be achievable for much larger weights. Static, meaning 'not leaning'.

As well, you need the brakes to slow this 500+ pound vehicle. Might it be true that these limitations lead to a choice to keep the envelope within the boundary requiring any leaning at high speed?

You may still travel fast in a straight line. In my Motorcycle Safety Foundation riding course, I was taught to do all my braking in a straight line before turning, and from that lowest speed accelerate into the turn.

I have some physical catastrophes looming over me if I push my body too far in several ways (as advised by competent medical authorities) so I am deliberately trading speed for carrying capacity in my own design (see signature). It's not as much fun, but it's more fun that being in a wheelchair.

My trike is designed to carry my camping gear or shopping, tow a trailer, and get me up any hill I need to go up in order to get home and out of the rain. As well, this means I fear no wind or hill, so I will keep riding and moving including adjusting the motor input so there need be no strain on my joints - I wish it were just a matter of strengthening my muscles, I could do that. But some of my joints won't permit the loads needed to strengthen my muscles - so I'm designing for long term movement, even when walking becomes difficult.

If that limitation is otherwise a good choice for you, you can eliminate the worry about a leaning trike which would greatly simplify your design requirements.

 

[DaLanMan]

The leaning trike is an attempt to overcome a few issues.
1) Standard trikes are a pain. I have produced a few for people and after chatting with a few sharp folks here, and the "trike guy" at a bike shop about 100 miles from here. My deduction was, they do not build trikes for people that peddle. They build them for people that cruise. Hence the wobbly weird ride. I am in possession now of another brands solution and will report my findings on that.
2) I am *not* there yet. I have a few mobility issues that are clear indicators of my future, but like recovering from the pelvis break. I am not one to let a little thing like severe pain and risk of future agony deter me from my goal. I mean literally, that was the Dr's attitude about me refusing to take it easy in recovery. Fired him and found a Dr that supported my goal of regaining mobility. Now I am looking at a double barrel issue. I am gonna ride with my kid and live my life as long as I can. When I am forced to a change I will accept it, but have made plans to get around it as much as possible.
3) I have a potential break solution in route now. If it works, I am going to ask a few peeps to test it.. then If that works, you will hear about it. Find a big problem, find a small solution. Good engineering goal, in the meanwhile, I have dealt with poor breaking strength. It just takes a bit more careful driving.
4) The greenspread looks pretty cool, and if I did not need a air lift assist to get up when my bum goes below my knees it would be a consideration. The knee thing has been an issue for years.. Now I finally was gonna tap out and get a bilateral replacement (mum in law had one, walked out of the car to the house that afternoon, Medicine is awesome)

I am not trying to be a grump. I am just trying to find a solution path that can meet my goal. If I can't well, as I said, if the Mt won't come to .. ok, no idea where that was going. If my answer is "sucks to be you" I will go with Plan B. Build out a delta and make it work as well as possible.

They told me I was deaf when I was 10.. turned out I needed surgical intervention. Gran kept at it til a Doc put grommets in me ears. and sure enough. I could hear, just couldn't drain.

They told me I was probably just going to be genetically small, my parents must have been (above average on both, granted not ginormous) Turned out, I grew.

I have a habit of not accepting things when other people say it is not possible. There have been things that turned out were doable, but were not fiscally feasible. There have been a couple things where I had to give in and accept it was not gonna happen. I have never once found a situation where I could not keep working on my body and succeed. I made it into Ranger school and all the way through to the end with a cracked shin bone and a shoulder that kinda started going south in the third week. They also gave me greif about my size (I said I was a late bloomer. Joined the Army at 5'2, 18 months and a lot of discomfort later I was a foot taller)

I think this is a possible solution, it is just the one item that has me baffled. I generally can find a solution set to things. In this case while there are some out there, I have as of yet to find a good solution that is reproduceable. If I have to, I know a couple MiT Mechanical Engineers that I will bloody beg borrow or steal time from to get a solution set.

Telling my son Dad was not gonna be there at graduation was hard enough. I am not gonna tell him I can't go stupid things with wheels.