For lacing purposes, would this rim be acceptable?

[HK12K]

Looking to replace a failed rim on my 1500w leaf and am considering this option.

https://www.ridersdiscount.com/pro-...x16-aluminum-black-for-yamaha-tt-r125l-963103

Both are 36 hole but idk my arse from my elbow here so figured I'd double check before I commit to placing an order in the event I am missing something obvious.

Assuming it's appropriate lace wise, I presume I should wait to receive it to gather the necessary measurements before ordering spokes, washers, nipples and such... Correct?

 

[calab]

How on earth do you even know the motorcycles/mopeds rims erd?

They are literally never ever mentioned in anything at all I have ever checked out and I have checked and checked and checked.
The closest thing I have ever gotten was a website that mentioned the height of inflated motorcycle tires and maybe the diameter of the nipple hole.

You have to get the rim first in your hands, do the erd measurements yourself and measure the erd 4.5 times minimum.

I have laced motorcycle rims to hub motors and I measured the erd 8.75 times and yet I still got it wrong and was off by a few mm, and it was nothing trivial by any means as that few mm stuck out big time yet I still rode it that way. I do not know what I did wrong, maybe I measured at the wrong place on the nipple bowl of the rim. I have tried to get a straight answer, and never gotten one.

Remember those nipple holes are bowled and angled.

Reminiscing of days yore I would probably measure the top of the bowl on one side and the top of the bowl on the other side, then do the same with the bottom, average them out and make that your erd #

Are you going to flare washers for the nipples?
John Holmes used to sell spokes and nipples for what your doing, a bigger nipple head but I dont think he does anymore. Just got rid of his order run and thats that.

Looking to replace a failed rim on my 1500w leaf and am considering this option.

https://www.ridersdiscount.com/pro-...x16-aluminum-black-for-yamaha-tt-r125l-963103

Both are 36 hole but idk my arse from my elbow here so figured I'd double check before I commit to placing an order in the event I am missing something obvious.

Assuming it's appropriate lace wise, I presume I should wait to receive it to gather the necessary measurements before ordering spokes, washers, nipples and such... Correct?

 

[amberwolf]

Looking to replace a failed rim on my 1500w leaf and am considering this option.

https://www.ridersdiscount.com/pro-...x16-aluminum-black-for-yamaha-tt-r125l-963103

Note the nipple holes are angled, so check with something like the grin spoke calculator, etc, to see if the angles that will result from the diameter of that rim vs the diameter of the motor spoke flanges will work with the angle of the nipple holes in the rim.

Assuming it's appropriate lace wise, I presume I should wait to receive it to gather the necessary measurements before ordering spokes, washers, nipples and such... Correct?

Yes.

As noted by calab, depending on the spoke thickness you use, you'll probably need nipple washers too, or nipples that have flanges that fit the motorcycle rim holes but threads that fit the spokes.

 

[HK12K]

It appears I'm in for some fun. Guess I'll plan to keep on walking to work for the foreseeable future. This sounds like it's going to take me a while.

 

[Eastwood]

It appears I'm in for some fun. Guess I'll plan to keep on walking to work for the foreseeable future. This sounds like it's going to take me a while.

Actually you’re in luck, I received that same exact rim. pro wheel, 16” 1.60. I have the spokes and rim I’m just waiting on the new motor QS205V3TI 6T. I should have the motor in about two weeks and I can let you know if my ERD measurement was correct. Most people say they ordered the spokes too long when trying to lace Moto rims.

I used a straight object/shifter cable housing by feeding it through the spokes holes corresponding to the opposite end. then measured the actual object. Instead of using two spokes threaded into the nipple and measuring the gap between, The standard way.
I also measured the ERD just using a flexible tape measure then just added the extra millimeters for the spoke depth that goes into the rim inside the nipple.

You can’t measure the ERD the standard way with moto rims because of the spoke angles, so you need an object that will give you a straight line.
Look at the 2nd and 3rd picture you can see the angle, not possible to measure with spokes threaded into the nipple.
I have the ERD measured at 383mm, i’ll post a picture below

Also I can give you a contact for spokes for 10 gauge. $50 with nipples straight off the Chinese press lol
Unless you plan on using bicycle spokes which work just fine but you’ll need to make washers for the spoke nipples. Then you need separate washers for the spoke head. my last moto rim I used 12 gauge spokes and they are horrible. They constantly loosen so I would stay away from 12g and either go to an actual Moto spoke size 10g or use actual bicycle spokes 13/14g. The good thing with the thicker spokes is they don’t loosen or stretch so you don’t need to make adjustments. But with lacing with Moto spokes the wheel will not have flex like a traditional bicycle wheel.

These cheap Chinese spoke nipples fit perfect in the rim with no washer that’s why I went this route. I typically use namebrand spokes but with the name brand stuff they don’t go any bigger than 12g.

 

[calab]

I measured it a few different ways many many times
string
picture hanging wire
spokes
desk ruler
tape measure
a home made caliper that spreads out and you get the distance then tighten the wing nut. I had originally made it to measure the hub motor itself.

Spokes were still to long.

I really do not know why the rim manufacturers never ever have the erd of the rim. When I was looking around, even the motorcycle dealers parts department always wanted the year, make and model of the motorcycle. Websites want the same info.

My next build I will buy some dirt cheap spokes off ebay then spring for the good stuff.

 

[Eastwood]

I really do not know why the rim manufacturers never ever have the erd of the rim.

Well Moto rims are different. Typically they you don’t use custom spokes they come as a kit. That’s why they don’t tell you the ERD because people are not ordering custom cut spokes.

You can click this link to see example. It’s just sold by the inch of rim not in millimeters.

https://sinaparts.com/spoke-10-12-14-16-17-19-for-dirt-bike-front-or-rear-wheel-rims-c-style-rim-hub-only-47050skn1?gclid=CjwKCAiA1JGRBhBSEiwAxXblwYR-Co-TRfQ2T-0pPBLttlbyDUJWmI_3_wuK9Rqs7Y6xQYjG7tw6xRoCzlAQAvD_BwE

 

[HK12K]

Well this is most fortunate! I'm going to order the rim now and will be following along intently.

The wheel building process is new to me so this will absolutely help improve my confidence in being able to source the correct items and get them in front of me.

Once the erd has been nailed down I'd love more info about those 10ga moto spokes and nipples. Sounds perfect for this application.

I actually have a 16" Holmes rim on my Raptor. QS205, pretty sure 10ga spokes, and that is stout to say the least. I've got a couple thousand miles on that bike and haven't had to even think about touching the wheels. I didn't build the wheels however and was lucky enough to buy pre-owned. The front is a Pro Wheel and that seems every bit as stout as the Holmes, which is why I focused on the brand to begin with. Shame that Holmes got out of the hobby, though I get it.

 

[Eastwood]

Once the erd has been nailed down I'd love more info about those 10ga moto spokes and nipples. Sounds perfect for this application.

OK I’ll confirm the ERD once I get the wheel built :thumb:

Here’s the contact for the spokes, this is her WhatsApp number
+86 134 0153 6906
She’s an Amazon seller and other platforms as well but you can just contact her directly and pay through PayPal. I don’t know how they do it but the shipping is only 2 to 5 days from China, and not just spokes pretty much anything you need ebike related they got it. The company is NBPower

 

[docw009]

Using the spoke calculators for bicycle rims, they always come in too long. Usually about 2mm. One time I asked the spoke guy to thread on an extra 1mm of thread, but he said his tool couldn't do it.

 

[calab]

Maybe the shipper just wants a good review. Once I bought a $1.00 stylus pen on ebay as my first purchase probably from the same country.
Certain items can have a faster shipping time like if you choose e-packet it can be pretty quick. Fasttech used to have epacket shipping and it was the pretty cheap.

 

[DogDipstick]

Why do you guys like 16"? I got a 18" to lace: I have done 17" but that wheel was small.. like odd looking on a MTB size frame. My 19" Sur Ron rims are ok. I got someone in Detroiet who will cut me whatever 12g with large nipples available.

I am still torn between 10g and 12g. One person says 12g, one person says 10g. And so on. I do wanna say, those galvanized spokes are the worse. I like painted or stainless.

 

[Eastwood]

Why do you guys like 16"? I got a 18" to lace: I have done 17" but that wheel was small.. like odd looking on a MTB size frame. My 19" Sur Ron rims are ok. I got someone in Detroiet who will cut me whatever 12g with large nipples available.

I am still torn between 10g and 12g. One person says 12g, one person says 10g. And so on. I do wanna say, those galvanized spokes are the worse. I like painted or stainless.

Well this will be my first time running a 16 inch rear. My past experience with full-size dirt bikes are 21 front 18 rear 2strokes.

Now with electric I believe smaller is superior, even on a Moto track for many reasons.

That combo is about 20 pounds heavier than a 19 inch front and 16 inch rear. So for one it’s about the weight savings which will help with range and acceleration. Also the wheel diameter is slightly smaller as you know it will give you more torque. That being said the overall wheel diameter for a 16 inch rear is not that much different than a 18 or 19 inch. I’ll post a picture so you can see. The 16” tires have a really thick/taller side wall Compared to the 19 inch front tires I’m running in the rear. I can’t fit a full size 18 inch rear tire on my stealth bomber clone.

Oh and most importantly I’m running the 16” rear tire for better hill climbing ability. The Enduro trails I ride on are mostly in the mountains with steep hill climbs.

 

[Eastwood]

I am still torn between 10g and 12g. One person says 12g, one person says 10g. And so on. I do wanna say, those galvanized spokes are the worse. I like painted or stainless.

Trust me those 12 gauge spokes are a nightmare. Have to true the wheel every other time I ride and sometimes every time. This is the first wheel Build that I needed to constantly tighten so it’s contributed to the 12g spokes. I used spoke prep as well which works really great on all of my other wheel builds they never loosen.

 

[amberwolf]

If you're having troulbe with spokes not staying tight, then either they are:

--really poorly made and continue to stretch beyond their normal full-tension length (which means they are getting thinner and thinner as they are retensioned again and again),

or

--they are too thick for the rim and/or not fully tensioned and unable to pull the rim "tight" so the rim keeps pulling and relaxing and letting the nipples rotate and unscrew

or

--they are not thick *enough* for the rim and can't put it under tension, causing the same thing as above (haven't ever run into this, but if it's a motorcycle rim it might require much higher spoke tension than the spokes you have can provide).

 

[HK12K]

Sorry for not revisiting this thread long enough to be able to reply. It's been a hellatious few weeks.

Thanks very much for the contact info for the spoke seller. I have two rims enroute and am really looking forward to getting confirmation of the ERD. Once that's nailed down I'll order the spokes and nipples and get to work building. I have done far too much walking lately. :lol:

As for why a 16", this is for my Giant Revive which came equipped with 20" wheels stock. That said my Raptor has a 16 on the rear and a 17 on the front and I have no complaints. The wheels are super strong and being a hub motor the smaller diameter is beneficial.

If it were a powerful mid drive and I were building from scratch I'd definitely consider larger, but again, no complaints.

 

[Eastwood]

If you're having troulbe with spokes not staying tight, then either they are:

--really poorly made and continue to stretch beyond their normal full-tension length (which means they are getting thinner and thinner as they are retensioned again and again),

or

--they are too thick for the rim and/or not fully tensioned and unable to pull the rim "tight" so the rim keeps pulling and relaxing and letting the nipples rotate and unscrew

or

--they are not thick *enough* for the rim and can't put it under tension, causing the same thing as above (haven't ever run into this, but if it's a motorcycle rim it might require much higher spoke tension than the spokes you have can provide).

Well it’s not the 1st scenario there sapim spokes

Not the 2nd scenario there excel dirt bike rims with 12g spokes.

Then for the 3rd option, the front wheel is 12ga as well but they don’t loosen as much. So I still say it’s because of the QS205. I just don’t think the 12 gauge spokes are sufficient with the QS205 especially for off-road use. It’s just too much torque and weight for those thin spokes, hence that’s why QS drilled the hub motor for 8 gauge spokes. Which is probably overkill for most people situation. I think 12 gauge spokes would work just fine for commuting purposes but with off-road use they seem to not be able to handle the demand. So that’s why I’m going to 10 gauge spokes for my next QS205 build. That being said this is also a bike that weighs more than 160 pounds with 15+kW power.

Edit: also here’s some pictures you can see some issue with the 12 gauge spokes with the QS205. Spoke head is pulling through the flanges because it’s not big enough, and then The spokes themselves are just too thin you can actually see through the flange hole

 

[Eastwood]

Thanks very much for the contact info for the spoke seller. I have two rims enroute and am really looking forward to getting confirmation of the ERD. Once that's nailed down I'll order the spokes and nipples and get to work building. I have done far too much walking lately. :lol:

OK I got you covered :thumb:
The new motor should be here next week and will let you know how the spoke length turned out. I measured the ERD about 50 times lol hope its right 8)

 

[E-HP]

Well this will be my first time running a 16 inch rear. My past experience with full-size dirt bikes are 21 front 18 rear 2strokes.

Now with electric I believe smaller is superior, even on a Moto track for many reasons.

That combo is about 20 pounds heavier than a 19 inch front and 16 inch rear. So for one it’s about the weight savings which will help with range and acceleration. Also the wheel diameter is slightly smaller as you know it will give you more torque.

That tire combo is pretty close to an 85cc dirt bike:
https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/motocross/models/yz85lw

 

[Eastwood]

That tire combo is pretty close to an 85cc dirt bike:
https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/motocross/models/yz85lw

Yeah it’s also similar to pit bikes. But some pit bikes actually have a 14 inch rear and 17 inch front. considered a 14 inch rear but it’s just too small for off-road use because of the attack angle. Here’s a picture you can see all 3 different tire heights. The tire mounted on the rim on the bike is a 19” then the tire in front of that is the 16” then the tire in the front is a 14”

I like that YZ 85cc, looks clean!

 

[Chalo]

The good thing with the thicker spokes is they don’t loosen or stretch so you don’t need to make adjustments.

You got that wrong. Thick spokes chronically loosen because they don't stretch enough. If you use a moto rim, it can tolerate the very high tension required to keep spokes tight... but you're not using a moto hub. Flange tear-out is a thing to be aware of.

Almost all the problems folks have with could have been avoided if Chinese manufacturers hadn't pandered to idiots by drilling hub motors for spokes too thick for the application.

 

[999zip999]

What's the problem Chalo just redrill the motor. Or brass washers and only two broken spokes two years.

 

[E-HP]

What's the problem Chalo just redrill the motor. Or brass washers and only two broken spokes two years.

I don't think you can drill the holes smaller.

 

[999zip999]

Oh yes grasshopper just move it in the middle between the original spoke holes. EZ
Oh you can also drill the holes larger. Lol

 

[E-HP]

Oh yes grasshopper just move it in the middle between the original spoke holes. EZ
Oh you can also drill the holes larger. Lol

Got it. Haven't heard of anyone doing that.