GT i-drive 2.0 Build

[GCinDC]

I did my first ride today, great !

WTF, no video?? :lol:

just kidding. cells look better!

unplug the discharge plug and balance charge it again...

 

[dan974]

wondering about parallell charging...
exemple with 18SS 3P
1) you charge each battery of each P to the same Voltage then you make the 3 pack of parallell batteries
2)you discharge
3)do you need to balance each single battery everytime you want to parallell charge, or do you only need to balance each Pack you did or do you only need to charge them parallel with the BC168 ? No As I rode before but I should ask why and how ?

if you charge the 3P in parallell how does it balance the batteries in each P ? why discharging can create disbalance and not charging 1 pack with for ex 3 // batteries ? how can the charger identify if a cell got a difference since you're charging a pack of batteries in parallell ...? why would the pack disbalance when inseries and not when in parallell ?

maybe cause when in series one can discharge in another while it's not possible when in // ?
as usuall I like to know the stuffs to do but to understand them and next to be able to explain...I guess it's a professional deformation

I found that you're DB25 can accept 2,25Amp max are you and Jay putting the 8Amp of BC168 ?

 

[GCinDC]

if you charge the 3P in parallell how does it balance the batteries in each P ?

short answer: you can parallel charge the pack at 6s9p!

but your questions aren't very clear. so let's go back to the beginning....

lay out 9 packs that are each 6s of whatever ah. check the balance of each pack. make sure there are no duds.

then make three groups of three packs. for each group, parallel the power leads AND the balance leads to 'parallel the packs at the cell level'. some people just parallel them at the power lead level, but i don't see the point of this. yes, the capacity gets tripled, but then you have to worry about the balance of each individual pack! however, if you parallel the balance leads, then one weak cell can never go below the other ones it is balanced with, and you only need to monitor the 3p pack as one group of cells rather than three groups of cells.

for those just tuning in, how do you parallel the power leads? if they've got bullet connectors, there's no way to just use the existing connectors! you have to create a new 3 in 1 cable that connects to the existing bullet connectors of three packs and has only one set of connectors on the other end, and figuring out how to crimp 3 10g high strand wires together is not particularly easy. or you cut off the bullet, strip and wirenut each set of leads, with folks here do it lots of ways. you can look them up. then you gotta make a 3 to 1 balance lead connector, typically using jst-xh extensions. if you don't, you will be very unhappy trying to locate every single hidden jst-xh of each pack when all the wires are bundled up...

so once you get 3 sets of 6s packs configured in 3p at the cell level, then you need to create two wiring harnesses:

for discharge to the controller, you need a power lead harness that puts each 6s3p subpack in series for 18s3p.

to bulk charge, (with no balancing) just plug in an 18 x ~4.15V = XX V charger.

to parallel charge:
A - use hyenas balance charger and plug in each subpacks jst-xh to the breakout board, or
B - with a 6s capable RC balance charger, you need to create cables that parallel the power leads and the balance leads (at 6s) and you will be charging 6s9p...

i hope that helps...

 

[pendragon8000]

If you don't want to unplug the controller each time you can have a parallelled off set of main discharge leads for charging. This is how I have my commuter bike set up now - so the controller is always connected so it does away with needing a precharge lead too.

sorry if i missed something but what do you do when you balance charge? obviously you would disconect the series harnes/plug and when reconect...? sparks? arc the contacts of the series harnesss?
they are prety anoying to set right after arcing, IMO, almost need pliers to squash them into place.
.............
EDIT
just remembered that you only balance charge every one in ,,, ever. its not really an issue.

 

[dan974]

if you parallel the balance leads, then one weak cell can never go below the other ones it is balanced with, and you only need to monitor the 3p pack as one group of cells rather than three groups of cells.

I think I gotcha, as soon as your make the parallell 3p pack it balance itself beetween the cells of the 3 packs ...and then if you got unbalanced with the 2 other 3p packs that are in series with the first one it means that there is a weak cell, and the only way to find it is to disparalleling the 3P pack and test each pack again.

to Resume I would say : when paralleling packs, they autobalance themselves this is why we must put lead wires in parallel and balance wires (I think I did not rode it enough as a noobsi frenchi ) in the 3p packs,(and if you want the 3x 3P packs to be exactly the same when parallel charging, let them a couple minutes together on the balance board (as recommanded somewere in a thread, maybe the supermega charger from doctor flash mac Jay :wink: )
when putting packs in series if they don't get same states cells, they'll come unbalanced and so they can discharge or charge one in another and here comes fireworks :wink:

and with the BC168 as soon as you charge each 3P pack you do not need to unpluged the lead wires, but if you wanna parallel charging the 3x 3P packs you need to unplugged them not to make a shortcut as the balance plugs would // them ... and so you must not forget to unplugged the parallel charging board (coming with the BC168) before putting the lead series connections the BC168 is a true hyenvolution :wink: : bulk charge and the balance charge each P pack so, no need to unplugged lead and precharge connection.

just one question remain, when you use the BC168 for // charging, and the // board to charge 3x 3P packs unbalanced, do you need to balance each P one by one before //charging the 3P or can you directly balance charge them and they will autobalance themselves inside each P pack ? isn't the charger cheated like this...I know parallel charging goes faster...

if main contactors were not that much expensive I would use them to unpluged series connections...

did you put 8amp (from teh BC168)in your DB25 plug ? cause they're rated only 2,22amp ?

thanks for the light Greg about how parallel packs just balance themselves ...and sorry for my poor frenglish

 

[pendragon8000]

The db25 would have 8/3 amps per pin so that works out about right and with fat wires on either side it would disipare any extra heat.

 

[dan974]

yeah watch out that in my cas 20S 2P it would be 8amp/2 and those http://www.winfordeng.com/products/pic/brksd25f-c_strain_relief_end_large.jpg are rated 2,25 Amp continous...I'll maybe jump to a 40 or 50 and use 2 to reduce resistance...

would just love to find a waterproof cap...not let drops getting inside of it like on Jay's one...

LAST EDIT : I found them there's strong cap for the SCSI centronics plugs (http://www.amazon.fr/Bouchon-SCSI-CENTRONICS-50-mâle/dp/B000GRVFRY http://www.iec.net/cn50hcf.html) hihihi, Hyena is the queen of the jungle...I could only find some dust cap http://www.iec-usa.com/BR000000/framesc.htmllfor the DB25...

LAST LAST EDIT...: I could find some on ebay with the good keywords...http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=DB25+terminator&LH_PrefLoc=2

hyena use the centronics 36 way for 18S= 3x 6S so 3x7wires ...

 

[GCinDC]

i bulk charge pretty fast at 1kw, so in no hurry to balance charge... most i've done is 3A! and yeah, i was feeling the wires... :lol:

 

[pendragon8000]

Yeah may by up grade if 8/2 amps. For a cover I just got an extra plug to cut of wire connectors and coat in silicone.

 

[Hyena]

just one question remain, when you use the BC168 for // charging, and the // board to charge 3x 3P packs unbalanced, do you need to balance each P one by one before //charging the 3P or can you directly balance charge them and they will autobalance themselves inside each P pack ? isn't the charger cheated like this...I know parallel charging goes faster...

Firstly you need to hard wire your parallel packs into a single, fixed configuration and stop thinking of them as seperate batteries. From now on your 3P 5ah bricks are a 15ah battery with a single set of balance wires. Now any other parallel charging you're talking about is the other parallel groups in the battery which you MUST make sure are not in series if you're going to charge them all at once.

Typically unless you have a really weak cell in one sub pack if the battery has been discharged as a series unit then all the cell voltages will be much the same. A small voltage imbalance isnt going to cause fireworks, it's only if you have a big difference of say 3.7v - 4.1v that things will get toasty real quick. That said because of the discharge curve of lipo you it's less of an issue at lower voltages. Eg say a bunch of cells at 3.1v and some at 3.6v. This will be less of an issue to parallel up (because the 3.1v will very rapidly bounce back) than say a bunch of cells at 3.7v and some at 4.1v.

would just love to find a waterproof cap...not let drops getting inside of it like on Jay's one...

Yeah they're hard to find, if at all possible. I use a strip of duct tape over mine if it looks like rain :lol:
A few people on here have 3D printers now and could knock you something up fairly easily. Thats eventually what I'll do.

The centronics plugs themselves are very hard or expensive to find these days as straight solder pin plugs and not pre-made cords or adaptors.
I did find a supplied in china but htey wanted me to buy in mega bulk.
Maybe I should order 500, send them to a sweat shop and get them to solder them up like I do with JSTs coming off them and then sell them here on ES for the rest of my days :lol:

Hyena is the queen of the jungle

You were going so well until that point! Just call me Sheena
(I'm going to let that one slide and chalk it up to the language barrier, you crazy frenchman )

Yeah may by up grade if 8/2 amps. For a cover I just got an extra plug to cut of wire connectors and coat in silicone.

I charge at the full 8 amps the charger can put out through single pins in the centronics plugs and it takes it fine. The same black magic that allows these chargers to put 8 amps through standard balance tap wires extends to transferring that same current through the pins of the the centronics / DB connectors too.
As I've said before though, I find the insertion/removal of centronics to be superior to DB - click in-click out. DBs often require a bit of wiggling which is not good for a regularly used plug.

 

[dan974]

You were going so well until that point! Just call me Sheena

I was more refering to your wild rides ...and as a Hyena could not have say King...otherless I would have say queen of the desert
:lol: :lol: :lol: but I wouldn't have allowed me that ...snails and frogs eater joke

Yeah they're hard to find, if at all possible. I use a strip of duct tape over mine if it looks like rain :lol:
A few people on here have 3D printers now and could knock you something up fairly easily. Thats eventually what I'll do.

have a look @ the links upper, there's dust cover , or even terminator...
http://www.iec-usa.com/BR000000/framesc.html
I could fin the male one on ebay but not the female one ...http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULTICOMP-5...769275272?clk_rvr_id=446387982061&mfe=sidebar

A few people on here have 3D printers now and could knock you something up fairly easily. Thats eventually what I'll do.

I do have one @ school so if anyone need a special piece once, I just need a ".stl" CAD file...

I charge at the full 8 amps the charger can put out through single pins in the centronics plugs and it takes it fine. The same black magic that allows these chargers to put 8 amps through standard balance tap wires extends to transferring that same current through the pins of the the centronics / DB connectors too.

that's exactly what I tought but I expected that you'll answer as the dark wizard of the BC168 (do you feel confortable with that ) ?

 

[GCinDC]

so from last page...

Pack 2: 19.35v, 0.062
3.878 - 3.883 - 3.888 - 3.882 - 3.825

i was an idiot...

...cells look better!

you guys gotta call me on stuff like that.

seriously. i hope you don't think i've got too much pride! lol

axel received the BC164 or whatever and we tested it out last night. he's been balance charging, and after an 8ah ride yesterday, we checked each 10ah pack with the BC164 (better name, anyone?) and EVERY cell was at 3.701 except one which was at 3.700....

my chargery BM6 lipo buzzer, from which the pack data above was measured, is total frigging crap, with regards to accuracy. it's useful as a blunt tool, when near the end of a pack, as long as it's kept in mind that one cell reads 0.06V high...

so he'll start bulk charging now. :wink:

oh, and just to be clear, i was wondering, if each of 5 cells charges @ 3A, then a 5s 40ah pack will get charged at 15A in 2.66hrs, right?

in other news, i think axel's pretty happy about the bike. some passerby's have been flabbergasted! and what was it about the guys in the truck? they tried to keep up with you for a while and were shaking their hands in amazement? that stuff is priceless, in my opinion.

but first and foremost, eyes on the road! my worst accident happened on a nice day in March when i was looking around and didn't see the traffic up ahead....

i was surprised axel doesn't mind the cold, until i remembered the paragliding... give a picture of your helment/headgear, axel...

 

[Axel]

Yes, so I did the bulk charge, less than an hour.
After that I checked with the BM6 and I had
Pack 1: 0.031
Pack 2: O.066
Pack 3: 0.043
Pack 4: 0.015
I checked also with my tester "Smart Guard" and it gave me
1S: 4.172
2S: 4.166
3S: 4.164
4S: 4.174
5S: 4.177
so 0.013

after that I plug the batteries in the BBC168 (and not 4 !) and I read
4.18, 4.17, 4.17, 4.18,4.17
I pushed the button charge/mute, but it doesn't charge, so I pushed the button Balance and it balanced during 2 minutes and all the cells showed 4.17.

So I did a new test with my Smart Guard, and i saw a difference of 0.011, it was before 0.013

and here is the helmet !

 

[GCinDC]

that's awesome!

 

[chroot]

Haha freaking awesome looks good on you.

 

[dan974]

now is a dirt pilot =)

 

[pendragon8000]

Dirt pilot! Lol. Nice one Dan

GC, how's the periferal vision in there?

 

[GCinDC]

You lost me with the Dirt Pilot... no idea what that means.

GC, how's the periferal vision in there?

crap. i hate the peripheral vision in my ski goggles! i have to ride much more cautiously, use my mirror much more, and occasionally turn my head more than i'd like. i MUCH prefer a normal bike helmet and sunglasses since it seems i have twice as much peripheral vision.

however, in sub freezing temps and wind chill, the discomfort is just not worth it, so i use the full face helmet and goggles...

 

[Axel]

so from last page...

oh, and just to be clear, i was wondering, if each of 5 cells charges @ 3A, then a 5s 40ah pack will get charged at 15A in 2.66hrs, right?

I just tried to charge with the BC168, and it charges from 3.77 to 3.83 in 2h45
???

 

[GCinDC]

that was charging each cell at 3A?

 

[Axel]

yes

 

[GCinDC]

maybe hyena can save us? (by providing a quick answer before making us read his long thread, or alternatively the hundreds of posts on ES that include "BC168")?

in the meantime, bulk charge that sucker!

 

[Axel]

I did a bulk charge and I use the BC168 to just do the balancing
now I am going to ride with the bulk charger in my backpack !

 

[dan974]

You lost me with the Dirt Pilot... no idea what that means

I guess this is unswitchable french humour :

until i remembered the paragliding

Flying pilot vs DIRT (bike or ...) pilot
(I remember being 15 y old that americans got quite a hard work to understand the second degree french humour, while it was a bit more understood while I visited Aussies)

I guess it's time for me to adopt a low profile, cause I do understand that my english is worst than I tought :?

 

[pucksterpete]

Its like when we say "when pigs fly"

and the French say "when chicken have teeth"