Holy grail of solderless 18650 is close but not idiot proof.

Solderless is the holy grail because long term it enables total reuse of old cells. After 8 years a saggy pack with high internal resistance and only 70% of initial capacity might be no good to you on your mobile EV, but I will buy them by the ton to use in huge stationary energy storage packs where they can go on to last another 20 years (given it is a stable chemistry such as NCA).

Even current Tesla packs are totally useless for use at the cell level because they are all glued in place. Ever seen the one the video where the drop a Telsa pack 20 feet from a fork lift and still can't pry the 18650's loose?

At the module level, YES, you can reuse Tesla batteries in some respect, but it does not allow any real flexibility, and no real secondary use ecosystem for reuse of batteries will ever come to be as it does not make financial sense. I would much rather be able for a robot to tear down the pack, resort and rematch the gold cells after tossing the duds, and then rebuild it into compact stationary pack. I don't care if it is the size of a fridge using outdated 8 year old tech. It will power solar homes for pennies on the dollar.

If we standardize on the cell format and go solderless then ANY module can simply be torn down and rebuilt. If all manufacturers moved in this direction they could build battery packs into any form factor they like and still have a second life. No one has figured out large scale second life use of lithium batteries yet. Does your stationary battery system only use Leaf modules, or Tesla modules, or GM modules, or air cooling, or liquid cooling, or whatever?

Right now that form factor is 18650. In a few years the new standard will be the gigafactory cell format.

Also note when you tear apart a 8 year old pack usually only a few cells are bad (outliers) because they have extremely tiny defects. If a cell hasn't developed high self discharge after 8 years it means it has basically ZERO manufacturing defects. These cells are like gold even though they have lost capacity and have higher resistance due to plating. It's like someone has stress tested your cells for you for 8 years to sort out the duds. Thanks dude! When you rebuild a pack using these gold cells you will never have to service it again.

It also allows the service of new modules. You could have a brand new module with 100 cells in parallel. If enough cells go bad that the module require replacement (let's say 7), current practice is to just replace it and toss the old one. You could have 93 Rank A almost brand new cells going to the recycler. This is insane.

Here again is where small format cells make sense besides the safety factor. If those 100 cells were made as one big large format cell, now any internal defect would require all "100 cells" be junked. With 100 cells in parallel if you lose one cell you only lose a small percentage of total pack capacity. If you had a large EV with no cells in parallel (all very large format), any time a single large format cell developed a problem, the whole pack would have to be rebuilt or junked. During a pack rebuild a pack with small format cells will always have a larger percent of salvageable watt-hours of energy storage than a large format pack, hence the green option.
 
davidcandlelight said:
Any more suggestions?
Thanks!
Yes make a kit for sale. I really enjoyed the video. I found it and watched the same day it got posted here. I'm recycling batteries and reading the warning in the homemade thread. I find the exchange there with neptronix and liveforphysics entertaining, It's also fun reading and watching the evolution of the thread regarding charging systems. I wish there was a good kit with something like NTS designed for their bikes. Sadly, for me, I don't have access to the sorts of items you found. If not a kit a breakdown on the copper specs and parts you used and where they are accessible. That's probably asking to much but I sure would like to emulate your design for a smaller pack. Well done! Now someone make a kit or a detailed layout!!!

Perfect kit for me
 
liveforphysics said:
The key to making any of the solderless designs work is independent and adequate spring force designed into contacts that allows the cells to wiggle and shift a bit from stress events and still remain a low resistance electrical connection to each cell.

Solderless has many advantages over spot welded tabs. Snath's battery design is my current favorite for round-cell pack designs.

Love this thread
Just wonder if instead of having so many small/thin delrin stands, perhaps you could take a solid rectangular block of delrin and drill holes just big enough for a slight wiggle/heat expansion of the batt cells when slid into each "honeycomb" round tube hole and then drill and tap just a few screw holes in the entire block top (rather than one for each stand) to mount to the FR4 plates top and bottom?

Just don't know how much heavier it would be vs individual stands, but I'm guessing not much more than the stands/ extra screws taken as a whole? And then like the Snath creation, perhaps leave one side of the FR4 plate without screws and use the closed cell foam/rubber washers between the plate and a 3rd "sandwich" plate.

So the order goes (from bottom to top) FR4 bottom with screws attached to the Delrin block of enclosed cells, then the top has an FR4 plate #2 and then a layer of closed cell foam/rubber washers, then a plate #3 that has holes and screws to draw the #3 plate tight to the block like a sandwich. Sort of the Snath method but without a "box" enclosing both sides, just one side with the entire product forming it's own "box" in essense.


Flathill - "Even current Tesla packs are totally useless for use at the cell level because they are all glued in place. Ever seen the one the video where the drop a Telsa pack 20 feet from a fork lift and still can't pry the 18650's loose? ..."

Does this mean the cells don't need to be able to move slightly or expand if they are glued in the Tesla version? ...Nobody has really addressed what would happen exactly, even if you had the proper types and thicknesses of metal and properly lined up connections, if the cells were to wiggle/move slightly at the connection points (due to vibration/shaking from riding) whether it would cause shorts or resistance or other issues that would defeat the purpose of making this type of solderless connection, or not? Just curious...
 
Love the idea, sorry you abandoned it as its needed soldering is time consuming i would know as I've used soo much hours just creating a 20 cell charger now i have to build the battery packs for my home and i'm like nar too much work, so i am researching into a solder-less solution as well, we keep trying!

jdevo2004 said:
And that is why I am going to abandon this potential business project.

However, my loss might be the communities gain. After about $500 spent on materials I have come away from the project with some knowledge that could bring about the holy grail of a relatively cheap, extremely strong and capable 18650 solderless battery solution. The only problem is, does anyone really want to spend the extra $3000 it will take to actually fully test the thing and then market it to all the idiots of the battery world who will muck it up and burn down their homes. Then blame you!

OK on to the product. Simply put, just take two printed circuit boards and squeeze some batteries in the middle. Using printed circuit boards provides an easy solution for all the different battery combinations that one can think of. Printed circuit boards are also easily designed and procured from any number of sources for a very reasonable cost in lower quantities. Printed circuit boards also offer a wide array of copper thickness and trace size solutions to handle very high power.

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The problem: Finding a suitable battery contact that can solder to the circuit board. The ideal contact would be nickle plated copper to offer excellent conductivity a good mating surface that stays clean and does not corrode.
The solution so far: After several different products including designing my own nickel plated copper buttons that I had shipped in from china, I settled on tacks... But not just any type of tacks. These are retail security tacks that are used to pin RFID tags to expensive products. These tacks are flat, are only slightly larger than ideal size and are nickel plated. Importantly, they provide a soldering point for through hole PCB use. They are however made of steel rather than copper, but that can be compensated for by using pads and thick vias. These tacks come in boxes of 1000 and can be had for as low as 3.5 cents each, perfect for a low cost solution.

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Now on the the biggest and most expensive challenge: How to squeeze those batteries together.
The solution: delrin plastic stands....a forest of them. These stands are 66mm long, and 7.7mm in diameter. This allows a grid of 18650 batteries exactly 18.5mm on center. They are light and very strong. By using a stand on 4 sides of a battery, you can create a very strong contact between the pcb and the battery for every single battery. They are threaded on the top and bottom to allow the use of screws to attach to the pcb boards. These single stands are also very versatile in that they allow an infinite number of possible pcb battery designs. I have had 9 manufactured at a cost of around $300!! just to test how they would work with 4 batteries. Worry not because you will need a lot of these things and that means that a mold will have to be made. A mold will cost about $1000 and after that each piece will be about 30 cents to make. To put that into perspective, if you created a 100 battery solution, you would need a forest of about 120 stands which would cost about $36. They only weight 2.25g each.

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The final product ended up being much stronger than I ever imagined. Even with only 4 batteries and 9 stands the structural integrity was excellent. The stands and batteries themselves act like struts and end up forming a solid immovable brick. I can only imagine the strength of dozens of stands and batteries will be. The contact between the battery and the board is excellent and would be almost impossible to move as more stands and batteries are used. Initially I thought that I would have to use .93" or .124" FR4 board, but my prototype is using .62" and it is definitely strong enough. I was also worried that the delrin plastic stands would strip easily, but they are actually very resilient, and very tough to strip if you use the right length of screw. 5/8" #4 hex machine screws work perfectly. If this project were to continue, I would suggest 3x8mm screws to make it more international friendly.

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Fusing proved to be a challenge. My initial plan was to use extra small low profile blade fuses like they use on motorcycles. One for each cell but that proved cost prohibitive. After being inspired by the Tesla Motors battery pack, I settled on fuse wire which can be found in Europe. While this approach works, it is far more time consuming to implement than I had imagined. If the project were to go forward, I would suggest ditching this route in favor of designing PCB fuse traces. This will not be an easy task since PCB fuse traces do not allow a lot of consistency and can not be easily repaired. However, I feel it is the only route to allow a low cost easy to produce solution. If a trace is burned away, the customer should use fuse wire to repair it.

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Why am I abandoning this project? Well honestly it worked much better than I ever thought it could. However, as I was putting batteries in I realized how easy it would be for someone to either electrocute themselves, improperly install a battery and severely burn themselves, improperly install a battery and possibly burn down their house. There are tons of scenarios that can end up very bad and the blame will fall not on the customer, but on the kit manufacturer. After watching some 18650 exploding battery videos I decided this project was too much risk for me and I was out. Yes you can limit liability by incorporating and having people sign wavers, but the thought of someone hurting themselves or losing a home because they could not build the battery properly was too much for me to bear. Fortunately there are braver people than me out there and this project might live on. I would be glad to answer any questions.

All my progress is available to purchase at a small fraction of the cost to make plus shipping to a VERY SERIOUS buyer only. Includes all materials and CAD designs and quotes.




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