KiwiEVs next project fast EV
- Thread starter kiwiev
- Start date
Brilliant!
That looks like it would make an epic sleeper. And the funds saved by using a pile of junk like that can go towards an even better drive train or batteries.
Cheers
That looks like it would make an epic sleeper. And the funds saved by using a pile of junk like that can go towards an even better drive train or batteries.
Cheers
Lurkin
100 kW
I used to thrash the absolute bejesus out of a diesel one of these when I was a kid... can't help but think it would be a sweet drift base for something different.. seems kinda counter productive to drift in a perfectly eco friendly electric vehicle, but predictably heaped power is exactly what is required and what the old diesel puppy was sorely missing...
kiwiev
100 kW
Lurkin said:
Eco-frendly Lol its all about the Torque
Ordered a gearbox adapter plate from EV west today for a Toyota R-22 also a Expro battery SOC meter, little bits at a time for this project.
I also heard a rumor that batteries aren't going down in price as a friends in the north have more demand in the local market China is eclipsing the world in EVs 8) 8)
Cheers Kiwi
The Toecutter
100 kW
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
- Messages
- 1,316
Please, keep the truck looking the same as it does now. It would make the perfect sleeper like that... 
kiwiev
100 kW
The Toecutter said:Please, keep the truck looking the same as it does now. It would make the perfect sleeper like that...
will do I will make sure smoke those skinny tyres.
Going to Elmofo at Newcastle at the end of the month to check his Parker motors and battery packs out.
Cheers Kiwi
kiwiev
100 kW
Kiwi, you got me thinking a few post back when you talked about the torque of the dc but the regen and rev range of the ac. Why not get the best of both worlds and mate the two together. They both use dc batteries, so no problem there. Rig up the dc to only kick in when the pedal is pushed past a certain point, implying you want grunt. The rest of the time run 100% off the ac. I guess the difference in revs would be the problem...whether to run gears or not.
kiwiev
100 kW
galderdi said:
Yes it would be cool to have an on demand DC motor if therewas a way to match rpm.
Food for thought
Cheers Kiwi
Physically link the shafts, so the DC motor is always already spinning, just either not connected to the controller, or else the controller simply has it's throttle input "gated" so it doesn't get any input until the pedal is past that "grunt" point.
As long as the controller can't do regen on the DC motor, then the only disadvantage is that you have to run the system so the DC motor is never over-revved (or the commutator can/will explode), and that you always are running the DC motor, so there is always a little bit of system loss in bearings and brush/comm friction.
If the controller is kept disconnected from the motor then it has to be able to handle a sudden voltage application at it's output terminals (as it will get when suddenly connecting it to the spinning motor, which will have a voltage at its input terminals proportional to it's speed).
As long as the controller can't do regen on the DC motor, then the only disadvantage is that you have to run the system so the DC motor is never over-revved (or the commutator can/will explode), and that you always are running the DC motor, so there is always a little bit of system loss in bearings and brush/comm friction.
If the controller is kept disconnected from the motor then it has to be able to handle a sudden voltage application at it's output terminals (as it will get when suddenly connecting it to the spinning motor, which will have a voltage at its input terminals proportional to it's speed).
What about running the ac as a front wheel drive with no gear box and run the dc through a box to the rear. Then just drive it like a traditional manual for acceleration or in neutral for economy mode 100% off the ac. Maybe rig a switch on the gearbox so the dc only operates when its in gear. The great thing is if you do this on the hilux you should be able to use 4x4 front hubs, drive shafts etc.
kiwiev
100 kW
galderdi said:
If I had the coin mate I would think seriously about doing this
Cheers Kiwi
kiwiev
100 kW
Cowardlyduck said:Yeah, that's still 18k.kiwiev said:CD I can also get those Tesla packs for about $1300. Per 3kw module complete in housing heating cooling bms and fuse only problem is I need 14 modulesto get enough amps I need to win Loto
Cheers Kiwi
I'm not giving up hope for an 18650 based pack for you though. Keep in mind that the 10 amps per cell of the above posted 3500mah 18650's is continuous...they can and will peak above that without issue.
If amps is the issue then you could easily get away with 50P of these:
http://ru.nkon.nl/lg-18650-hg2-3000mah-20a.html
With 50 of these in parallel you could pull 1000A continuous all day, easily hit 1500A peak. It would weigh less than 75KG, but only have 17.7KWh, and cost 11.4K before shipping.
If cost is the issue, then you could go with 100P of these:
http://ru.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/panasonic-ncr18650pf-3-7v-2900mah.html
At 32S X 100P so 3200 cells, that would still only be 12.5K AUD before shipping, still manage 1000A continuous, and still weigh less than 150KG and be 34.3KWh. Only catch would be the extra welding to do 3200 cells.
Well CD
STill thinking about batteries
If I was to use 18650 would I make them in 100p blocks and then link them???
I am worried about finding away to connect them with 1000-1500 Amps flowing thru has anyone worked out away
OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS PLEASE
Cheers Kiwi
Given the above, I would go for the Panasonic's IMO. 12.5K for nearly 35KWh is pretty good TBH.
Cheers
Gooooooood timing!!!kiwiev said:Well CD
STill thinking about batteries
If I was to use 18650 would I make them in 100p blocks and then link them???
I am worried about finding away to connect them with 1000-1500 Amps flowing thru has anyone worked out away
OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS PLEASE
Cheers Kiwi
Given the above, I would go for the Panasonic's IMO. 12.5K for nearly 35KWh is pretty good TBH.
Cheers
I'm seriously close to putting in an order for cells...probably in the next few weeks.
You should have a flick through this thread for some good advice on spot welding:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68005
So yeah, your spot on (pun intended). It would be spot welded 100p blocks that would then be linked in series to each other.
There are 2 way's the series links can be done;
1st: Like most Ebike batteries around here you can just solder lots of wire at strategic locations to share the load for each series connection. Like this...but a bit more elegant:
Only pay attention to the series links with multiple connections here. This battery is very low load so it doesn't really matter about the other links, but the current sharing principal still applies.
The key/problem with this method is building the grid of cells in a way that then allows equal current sharing, and then finding the best points to solder wire for series connections that equally drains all cells. For this method to be able to handle 1500A you would need to use the right gauge of wire for the number of connections you make...http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
8Awg can handle 75A according to the above, but if you use fine stranded silicone wire you can really/easily get away 100A+ at even 10Awg. See Doctor bass video test of this:
[youtube]0DhzWPoSYoQ[/youtube]
For 100 paralleled cells you could easily get away with just 15 links of 10Awg wire...so one wire link per 7 cells, but that's an awkward number to figure out, so depending on how long you intend to sustain 1500A, you could go with 20 links or 10. I would just do 10 if your peaks are only going to last 10 seconds or less, but 20 if you really want to be sure it will be ok. The key is putting the wire in a position that is equal distance from all the cells around it. That's why you want either 10 links or 20, not 15 since 15 links means you would have 6.6 cells per link if you wanted to keep it even...which is not possible. With 10 links you have 5 cells either side of each wire, with 20 links you have 2 cells to one side side and 3 to the other since it's not ideal to solder directly on top of a cell. This makes the drain uneven so it is really not ideal, but since the load is lower on the link it's kind of ok.
Ideally you would do 50 links of 2 cells per link, but that's nuts and would take way too long.
The second approach is to make the pack using a full grid type setup with bus bars for grouped links or one link of nickel per series connection.
The bus bar approach I don't really know about, but you would basically just have to spot weld sections of the nickel to the bus bar periodically like the wire above. I guess you could also solder or weld to it, but I really don't know how that would work.
For a full grid type setup of nickel you would want at least 0.3mm thick nickel. The chart from the first link I posted above shows it nicely:
As above, if your 1500A peaks are less than 10s you could probably get away with 0.2 nickel which is far easier to weld. Using the JP spot welder on 0.3 nickel can be a stretch and would really push it's limit's doing 1000's of cells.
Ultimately I think it depends on the shape of the battery you are trying to make. If you can just make a giant squarish grid, then a full grid of nickel all spot welded together would probably be the easiest/simplest approach.
However if your going to need to split up the pack into different shapes or sections, then the soldered wire links will work best as you can adjust them to suit allowing you to stack paralleled sections etc.
Flick me a PM if your keen to put through an order for cells. I'm hoping to know in the next week or so if I can make a pack to fit my recumbent after which I will probably be putting in an order for 300 or so cells, but it will definitely be cheaper for both of us if we can bulk order 1000's of them instead.
Cheers
kiwiev said:galderdi said:
If I had the coin mate I would think seriously about doing this
Cheers Kiwi
"The coin"? I found a coin in my doner car. It was an aussie 2c coin so it is copper. Is that the coin you are after? I guess copper is always useful.
kiwiev
100 kW
galderdi said:kiwiev said:galderdi said:
If I had the coin mate I would think seriously about doing this
Cheers Kiwi
"The coin"? I found a coin in my doner car. It was an aussie 2c coin so it is copper. Is that the coin you are after? I guess copper is always useful.
Nice mate :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Cheers Kiwi
Lurkin
100 kW
So much room for batteries, win.
Whats the plan so far?
Whats the plan so far?
kiwiev
100 kW
Lurkin said:
Well at this stage I think 18650 are best capacity for buck I really would like like 35 Kwh to give me hopefully 200km range.
Still want AC motors at this stage twin AC 50s, but could change this build will always have to past director of finances
I really do like the HPEV AC motors.
Cheers Kiwi
Not sure if you already saw this one, but I missed it before:
[youtube]RigE5x11kpY[/youtube]
This guy hasn't done it the best way with mixing cells which I wouldn't do, but the methodical approach he takes is commendable and would probably roughly apply to how you will need to do it for your ute.
Cheers
[youtube]RigE5x11kpY[/youtube]
This guy hasn't done it the best way with mixing cells which I wouldn't do, but the methodical approach he takes is commendable and would probably roughly apply to how you will need to do it for your ute.
Cheers
The Toecutter
100 kW
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
- Messages
- 1,316
kiwiev said:
You're going to need some aerodynamic modifications to pull that off if the desired range is achieved at 90 kmh or more. This truck is a big, unaerodynamic, heavy beast of a vehicle. To get that range on that amount of capacity, you'd have to almost match the Nissan Leaf in terms of efficiency. That's far from impossible, mind you, but your truck won't look stock anymore...
kiwiev said:Still want AC motors at this stage twin AC 50s, but could change this build will always have to past director of finances
I really do like the HPEV AC motors.
Cheers Kiwi
What kind of performance do you want out of this truck? Desired 0-100 kmh acceleration? Desired top speed?
Twin AC50s at 144V/530A each would give you a total of 175 horsepower/172 lb-ft of torque. If your truck ends up weighing in at 3,500 lbs and you retain the transmission, you're looking at 0-60 mph in somewhere just under 9 seconds.
Twin AC75s and AC76s are worth looking into, as is a high power DC drive, if you want to go faster than that...
kiwiev
100 kW
The Toecutter said:kiwiev said:
You're going to need some aerodynamic modifications to pull that off if the desired range is achieved at 90 kmh or more. This truck is a big, unaerodynamic, heavy beast of a vehicle. To get that range on that amount of capacity, you'd have to almost match the Nissan Leaf in terms of efficiency. That's far from impossible, mind you, but your truck won't look stock anymore...
Im hope for 200 km combined highway city drive which I dont think is unrealistic
kiwiev said:Still want AC motors at this stage twin AC 50s, but could change this build will always have to past director of finances
I really do like the HPEV AC motors.
Cheers Kiwi
What kind of performance do you want out of this truck? Desired 0-100 kmh acceleration? Desired top speed?
Twin AC50s at 144V/530A each would give you a total of 175 horsepower/172 lb-ft of torque. If your truck ends up weighing in at 3,500 lbs and you retain the transmission, you're looking at 0-60 mph in somewhere just under 9 seconds.
Twin AC75s and AC76s are worth looking into, as is a high power DC drive, if you want to go faster than that...
The AC 51s are 144 volt
The AC 50s are 96 volt which Michael from EV west are running at 120 volt and giving just under 250 ft lb with 2 motors.
As far as performance goes more focused on 0 to 60 times. I have a mate down hear who has the duel cab version with a warp 9 at 144 volts and 380 Amp limit on his controller and I have been with him and it does 0 to 60 in 9.2 seconds.
Btw his car weighs 1350 kg all up.
So the space cable is lighter not sure by what thou?
So I think 0 to 60 under 7 seconds is do able
But in the end it is just truck,
Cheers Kiwi
oatnet
1 MW
His motor is starving for amps... I run more amps on my 450kg street-legal Dune Buggy with a 9" ADC DC motor. With a better warp 9 motor using Helwig brushes, he should be able to run at least 600a, if not 800a for 220lb-ft of torque (thought it was higher than that, just checked the motor chart I was wrong). A warp 9 will survive 10 seconds of 1,000a (240+ lb/ft) for drag racing, just set it high but don't hold down the pedal for too long. Some extreme cooling may be required. :lol:
144v is low too, especially when the (Pb?) batteries sag. With advanced timing he should be able to put 170v into the motor, so 144v sagging to 100v or lower leaves a lot of KW on the table. A Zilla controller will take a higher input voltage and buck it down to 170v or whatever you set it to, so battery sag will never slow you down.
Power may not be his design criteria though, just saying what the potential is.
-JD
kiwiev
100 kW
oatnet said:
His motor is starving for amps... I run more amps on my 450kg street-legal Dune Buggy with a 9" ADC DC motor. With a better warp 9 motor using Helwig brushes, he should be able to run at least 600a, if not 800a for 220lb-ft of torque (thought it was higher than that, just checked the motor chart I was wrong). A warp 9 will survive 10 seconds of 1,000a (240+ lb/ft) for drag racing, just set it high but don't hold down the pedal for too long. Some extreme cooling may be required. :lol:
144v is low too, especially when the (Pb?) batteries sag. With advanced timing he should be able to put 170v into the motor, so 144v sagging to 100v or lower leaves a lot of KW on the table. A Zilla controller will take a higher input voltage and buck it down to 170v or whatever you set it to, so battery sag will never slow you down.
Power may not be his design criteria though, just saying what the potential is.
-JD
No worries mate
It was buget build and he only has 90 Ah lithum and built the controller himself.
Its his daily driver for the last 4 years 8)
Btw you buggy is way cool bro 8) 8)
Cheers Kiwi
oatnet
1 MW
kiwiev said:oatnet said:Power may not be his design criteria though, just saying what the potential is.
-JD
No worries mate
It was buget build and he only has 90 Ah lithum and built the controller himself.
Its his daily driver for the last 4 years 8)
Btw you buggy is way cool bro 8) 8)
Cheers Kiwi
Thanks! I think your sonic is cooler though, and definitely a better platform for high speed.
I'm only running 60ah lithium - but it can put out 1800 amps. Gotta give props to your mate's build with 4 years as a daily driver...
IMO reliability is harder to achieve than speed, and heck I don't have the skills to build a controller.-JD