KLS-N + MY1020D nonsense

[100percentjake]

Hi all. Currently messing with various EV powertrains in a cheap Amazon minibike before committing to a street-legal conversion.

Bought a VEVOR 48v motor+controller combo. Very amusing. paired it with a 5ah battery I built out of a Honda Insight 5ah 12s lithium sub-pack. I then bought two 19.2ah orange batteries and a Kelly KLS-N controller to see how much better the performance would be. Hooked it all up, got it spinning and calibrated, but it cogs like MAD. Weirdly the cogging is worse in one direction than another. After googling it looks like the cause is/could be the hall effect sensors are slightly advanced in one direction.

Not even sure if "cogging" is the right word. It stutters extremely bad going CCW, and going CW it runs smooth until over 4000rpm and then it stutters in a similar manner to an ICE car rev limiter.

So my options are, as I see them:

1. Attempt to 'fix' the motor by relocation the hall sensors. ($free? but i have no idea what I'm doing)

2. New motor. Golden Motor BLDC-108 perhaps? ($168)

3. New controller. This guy on Youtube has the exact same motor, throttle, hell even batteries and connectors as me, but he's using a Kelly KVD ($120)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ch_kvkdwJI

Any other insight or a best route welcome and appreciated.

The eventual goal here is for a powertrain that I can transfer into my Suzuki FA50.

 

[Bossomatic]

Sounds like you have a sensored brushless DC motor and the phases are out of sync between the motor and controller.

Unfortunately there isn't a standard across manufacturers for what yellow, green, and blue actually mean so when you mix and match controllers and motors you can't just connect like to like, you get to guess what order is correct

The good news is that it's not hard to figure out. The bad news is that it's very tedious. You'll have to work through all of the combinations until you find one that works.

Since you have it sort of working, but just running rough you're closer than you might think! Keeping the motor phase wires as-is, swap your hall wires around until you find a working combination. I find it best to write out all permutations and check them off one by one:
YGB:YGB
YGB:YBG
YGB:BYG
YGB:BGY
YGB:GBY
YGB:GYB

It's possible you will need to try the above with a few motor phase permutations as well, but since you already have it running I'd bet you'll get it working just with hall wire swapping.

Edit: Just re-read your post and realized I actually have a very similar build. An electric mini bike with one of those Vevor motors and a Kelly Controller (KBSX). I'll double check my build and report back later, it's possible you can use the same combo I ended up with!

 

[100percentjake]

What's odd is that it runs FLAWLESSLY smooth at specific RPMs... in one specific rotating direction.

It feels like a car with a coil going bad. Intermittent missfires at specific RPM/load scenarios.

I opened up the motor and moved the sensors from their mechanically advanced position to a neutral timing position and recalibrated the controller and absolutely nothing changed.

Before:


After:


(the utter lack of strain relief gives me the heebie jeebies)

Some people are saying a trapezoidal controller is required to make these cheap motors work. I'm not sure why that is... is it because it's a "dumber" algorithm it's less sensitive to cheap motor construction? I'll order a Mini KVD tonight if that's the case, since it'll plug right in in place of what I have. Keep the KLS-N around for when I get a nicer motor or for another project or something.

 

[Bossomatic]

What you are experiencing sounds EXACTLY like mine did before I got the phases correct.

I just looked at my build and without changing the physical position of the hall sensors I got it working with the following
Controller:Motor
Phase - YGB:YGB
Hall - YGB:BYG

 

[amberwolf]

There's a few threads about the Vevor motors, including some with the problem you have here. I don't recall which ones found solutions, but at least one discusses the possible non-neutral hall timing issue.

Not everything in the list linked below is applicable, but you can check to see which are. (or refine the search), if you haven't seen them already:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=vevor&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

 

[100percentjake]

What you are experiencing sounds EXACTLY like mine did before I got the phases correct.

I just looked at my build and without changing the physical position of the hall sensors I got it working with the following
Controller:Motor
Phase - YGB:YGB
Hall - YGB:BYG

I should be able to quickly confirm this by looking for a specific pattern of hall sensors switching on and off as I manually rotate the motor, right?

 

[Bossomatic]

I should be able to quickly confirm this by looking for a specific pattern of hall sensors switching on and off as I manually rotate the motor, right?

Yep, I’ve always just swapped wires around because it’s faster but to my understanding that should work.

 

[E-HP]

I should be able to quickly confirm this by looking for a specific pattern of hall sensors switching on and off as I manually rotate the motor, right?

Yep, I’ve always just swapped wires around because it’s faster but to my understanding that should work.

How does that ensure that the wiring on the controller end will match up? I have two controllers where matching all the colors works with the motor, and two where all hall wires match, but need the yellow and green phase wires swapped; same motor. I don't think there's a simple short cut, given the motor or controller, or both, can have random wire colors, except using the logic chart to quickly narrow the combinations requiring testing:

https://imgur.com/HRaeRi4
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kits/golden-motor-magic-pie/110168-testing-bldc-motor-s-phase-wiring-hall-sensors-and-wiring

 

[100percentjake]

I should be able to quickly confirm this by looking for a specific pattern of hall sensors switching on and off as I manually rotate the motor, right?

Yep, I’ve always just swapped wires around because it’s faster but to my understanding that should work.

How does that ensure that the wiring on the controller end will match up? I have two controllers where matching all the colors works with the motor, and two where all hall wires match, but need the yellow and green phase wires swapped; same motor. I don't think there's a simple short cut, given the motor or controller, or both, can have random wire colors, except using the logic chart to quickly narrow the combinations requiring testing:

https://imgur.com/HRaeRi4
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kits/golden-motor-magic-pie/110168-testing-bldc-motor-s-phase-wiring-hall-sensors-and-wiring

I verified my hall sensors are all triggering, and in the proper

123
101
100
110
010
011
001

order. So, at least that much is good.

I then moved on to that flow chart. With the config in the top middle, it was stuck. Moved to the left, stuck. Moved one down, stuck. Moved to the lower-left. Ran, but rough. Went up to the upper right, ran rough. Went to the far right, ran rough.

Fairly unsure where to go from here other than conclude "sine wave Kellys can't run MY1020s worth a crap".

 

[Bossomatic]

Very odd issue. I’ve never worked with a true sine wave controller so I can’t speak to that, but I can confirm that a Kelly KBSX (trapezoidal) controller works perfect with an MY1020 motor.

 

[E-HP]

I then moved on to that flow chart. With the config in the top middle, it was stuck. Moved to the left, stuck. Moved one down, stuck. Moved to the lower-left. Ran, but rough. Went up to the upper right, ran rough. Went to the far right, ran rough.

Fairly unsure where to go from here other than conclude "sine wave Kellys can't run MY1020s worth a crap".

Puzzling. I think I'd try making changes to the three rough running configurations, and make the same changes/swaps to the hall sensor wires.

 

[isthatvinny]

Hi all. Currently messing with various EV powertrains in a cheap Amazon minibike before committing to a street-legal conversion.

Bought a VEVOR 48v motor+controller combo. Very amusing. paired it with a 5ah battery I built out of a Honda Insight 5ah 12s lithium sub-pack. I then bought two 19.2ah orange batteries and a Kelly KLS-N controller to see how much better the performance would be. Hooked it all up, got it spinning and calibrated, but it cogs like MAD. Weirdly the cogging is worse in one direction than another. After googling it looks like the cause is/could be the hall effect sensors are slightly advanced in one direction.

Not even sure if "cogging" is the right word. It stutters extremely bad going CCW, and going CW it runs smooth until over 4000rpm and then it stutters in a similar manner to an ICE car rev limiter.

So my options are, as I see them:

1. Attempt to 'fix' the motor by relocation the hall sensors. ($free? but i have no idea what I'm doing)

2. New motor. Golden Motor BLDC-108 perhaps? ($168)

3. New controller. This guy on Youtube has the exact same motor, throttle, hell even batteries and connectors as me, but he's using a Kelly KVD ($120)

Any other insight or a best route welcome and appreciated.

The eventual goal here is for a powertrain that I can transfer into my Suzuki FA50.

you can reflash your current KLS controller to KVD trapizoidal for free by emailing kelly your controller specs and serial number and asking for the reflash program, file and instrustions. the hardware between the KLS and KVD is the same, the software is the only difference. i did the same thing bought a KLS for my my1020 motor and realized i needed a KVD so i reflashed it