Resurrecting an Ultra Motor A2B Metro with 20S power

[edamame]

John,

I use an iCharger 3010B which does balance charge up to 10S. There's a picture of it on the first post. I don't balance charge that often. When I do, they are pretty close. That might not always be the case though. I got lucky with these packs.

Jim

 

[John Bozi]

Cheers,

I originally went 6s setup because everyone is using them, and being new to lipo I just followed the lead. Looking at higher than 6s packs I still get confused because I don't understand the charging process when it appears there 2 balance leads and 2 x red and black.

Just to make no mistake at all, Are those batteries you have there only got one red and black, and one 10s balance plug?
Is there long wiring run down the length of the pack (kind of like to 5s bricks together) or are the actual cells all really long?

So do you directly plug your balance leads into the charger without the balance board?

how long does it take to balance charge 10s2p? Why wouldn't you balance charge when you have the equipment for it?

That's awesome you run it on solar power! I will have to look into doing that one day.

Thanks so much,
p.s. have borrowed some of your cool pics in my build blog http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49136&p=920053#p920053

 

[edamame]

Cheers,

I originally went 6s setup because everyone is using them, and being new to lipo I just followed the lead. Looking at higher than 6s packs I still get confused because I don't understand the charging process when it appears there 2 balance leads and 2 x red and black. You just have to charge one pack at a time if you want to really get them balanced.

Just to make no mistake at all, Are those batteries you have there only got one red and black, and one 10s balance plug? Yes, but I had to combine two sets of 5S balance wires into one 10S balance plug. Slightly tricky. The owner of Progressive RC helped with this though I wouldn't expect him to help.

Is there long wiring run down the length of the pack (kind of like to 5s bricks together) or are the actual cells all really long? It is two 5S bricks shrink wrapped into one.

So do you directly plug your balance leads into the charger without the balance board? Yes, the 3010B has a 10S balance port.

How long does it take to balance charge 10s2p? 15 mins per pack after I bulk charged most of the way up.

Why wouldn't you balance charge when you have the equipment for it? Bulk charging is a lot faster. One hookup rather than four. My batteries stay pretty much equal. I balance them once in a while.

That's awesome you run it on solar power! I will have to look into doing that one day. I highly recommend buying a blemished 230-250W residential panel off of Craigslist and a good solar charge controller (The Kid) and a pair of new 100Ah AGM batteries to store it in. A hobby unto itself.

Thanks so much,
p.s. have borrowed some of your cool pics in my build blog http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49136&p=920053#p920053

 

[velooman99]

hello, I allow me to contact you because I love you a few questions it's possible?
I have a metro a2b, 2011 I think (buying opportunity)
battery as part works, but the secondary battery is down to 2 volts, and nothing happens when I put the charger (as if nothing were connected)
so I would just like to take a look in the battery, how you managed to open the secondary battery of A2B Metro? (Battery back then)
I unscrewed the 5 screws I removed two small black rods (5 mm insignifant so I think) on the side
but it is impossible to removed the black cover to access the cells
on the other side, it is the same thing, it seems stuck?

yet another question,
I bought a battery of 48volt 20ah to Crystalyte,
I wanted the installed behind, but I've realized that the rear cable was worn, the friction on the rear wheel (the cable is unplugged and that is wedged on the tire, the attachment plug is a half worn, frayed cables ....
 
I tried nevertheless connected to the battery on the bike when I put the key to "B", the display lights up, but no acceleration,
made by the controller is the problem, I assume that the controller is in the rear battery?
how to use the controller for my 48v battery?

I'm stuck with my bike

thank you for your precious help

 

[fechter]

I never had a stock rear battery, so maybe not much help there. I think you have to take both ends off and press really hard to slide the battery out of the case.

You should be able to use your 48v battery with the rear connection. The controller is not in the rear battery, the bike can run with just the frame pack. If it lights up, seems like it should go unless the actual battery voltage is dropping when you hit the throttle. I would try measuring the voltage at the battery connector while giving some throttle. I think the controller cuts off if it goes below 30v.

You can see how I did mine here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50590

 

[velooman99]

you think the controller is in the engine?

5 What is a small thread color that are in the large cable in the back?
I cut and I find the interior + and - (the two large cables) for battery power, but also 5 other thinner wire
I do not understand

 

[GCinDC]

you think the controller is in the engine?

5 What is a small thread color that are in the large cable in the back?
I cut and I find the interior + and - (the two large cables) for battery power, but also 5 other thinner wire
I do not understand

yes, the controller is in the motor. read the first post carefully: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43482#p634201

in the second pic, the controller has been removed.

same motor (i think) as in my stromer, and i have more pics here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63809#p957394

good luck

 

[velooman99]

Okay I understand,
why my engine is not running when I accelerated?
and why do I have multiple extra wire in the rear cable (the cable connecting the rear battery)
I have two cable (+ and -), but I have 5 + wire, the son went to the battery back home (my original rear battery died) and apparently was using the cable has some thing

 

[velooman99]

I never had a stock rear battery, so maybe not much help there. I think you have to take both ends off and press really hard to slide the battery out of the case.

You should be able to use your 48v battery with the rear connection. The controller is not in the rear battery, the bike can run with just the frame pack. If it lights up, seems like it should go unless the actual battery voltage is dropping when you hit the throttle. I would try measuring the voltage at the battery connector while giving some throttle. I think the controller cuts off if it goes below 30v.

You can see how I did mine here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50590

I read that you noticed the extra thread is bizare right?
I just noticed that when I installed 48volt battery at the back, I did not touch the pedal, and therefore, it happens sometimes it takes pedaled slightly before the audience gets going, I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[fechter]

I don't think it's related to the battery. Possibly some problem with the throttle or the built-in controller. Check the throttle connector that's buried in the bottom of the frame by the relays.

 

[velooman99]

ok, so I once tried to connect + battery
by setting the key to "B": the display lights up and gives information, but again, no electric assistance.
and when I put the key to "A", the 36V battery works perfectly.
it's pretty bizare
may be a solution:
I have heard that there is a special motor for 250w of europe, and as I am in Europe, can be my 250w motor and thus the battery does not work with 48V engine is?
and can be that if motor has asked the controller that is normally found in the rear battery (apparently there are batteries with a check back, it is the result of 4 or 5 cables at the back)

 

[fechter]

That's possible the controller is different than mine. You could try tapping your rear battery for 36V and see if it works. If taking apart the battery is a pain, possibly find another 36v source just for testing, like a power supply or lead-acid batteries.

 

[jamesbs]

I'd really appreciate advice on two things:

1/ Replacing the internal controller. I've used a gear puller as others have suggested to remove the shell on the motor wire side. I then cut the hall sensor wires from the controller but dont know how to remove the potted controller. Would removing the motor shell on the cluster side help? What tips can be shared to make the removal easier.

2/ What kind of power can this motor take? I'd like to run it on a 20s setup; likely using a mobipus 72200 or similar controller (this would be overkill but its not a significant $ increase. I'll add ferrofluid and heat sinking.

Any tips very much appreciated.

 

[amberwolf]

First...be careful; the rust on there may have penetrated under the magnets, and if so, they may come off when power is applied to it. If they do, you can glue them back on after cleaning up all the rust; there's a few threads about rust removal, restoration, and magnet reattachment.

1/ Replacing the internal controller. I've used a gear puller as others have suggested to remove the shell on the motor wire side. I then cut the hall sensor wires from the controller but dont know how to remove the potted controller. Would removing the motor shell on the cluster side help? What tips can be shared to make the removal easier.

See this thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86600
It's from a stromer but the motor is about the same.

2/ What kind of power can this motor take? I'd like to run it on a 20s setup; likely using a mobipus 72200 or similar controller (this would be overkill but its not a significant $ increase. I'll add ferrofluid and heat sinking.

The one on the Stromer is marked as 500w, while it's internal controller is marked as something over 350w. I haven't tested it yet for how much power it can actually handle, but it's going to be run on my SB Cruiser trike in a 20" wheel by a Grinfineon "35A" controller on 14s, so at least 1500w (probably 1800-2000w peaks). It may not be able to be run at that continuously, but I'll find out by monitoring temperature in the windings. Since there's two motors on the trike, the power to run it can be shared between them, if necessary.

It's also going to be tested using Incememed's SFOC5, which is probably capable of melting the motor into goo. :lol: I'd likely have to upgrade the phase wires from what I've got in there right now, to go up very high on the phase currents.


For the actual Metro version fo the motor, see what Fechter runs his at (or maybe he changed to a different motor? Can't remember, but it's in his A2B thread.)

 

[fechter]

As I recall, the controller is held in by 3 screws that go in from the rear, so you will need to separate the magnet ring from the stator. Use the puller tool. Be really careful not to get your fingers anyplace where they could get pinched by the magnets.



With a 52v pack, I can get mine up to about 50A. It's a bit happier at 40A, so around 2kW. As long as I can maintain 10mph or so, it doesn't overheat (using a heavy dose of ferrofluid). Only when climbing steep trails at low speeds does it really overheat.

Link to my build thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50590&hilit=A2B+metro