Speed increase help

[Ebikeman300]

Hello!

I own a Freego f3 pro max, and have been looking for ways to increase the speed after it took a hit due to motorcycle tires.

The controller is 24 amps, there are 2 batteries each 48 v with 20 ah and 35 ah. They are not wired in series and both have their own individual loading points on bike. The motors are 750w, one on each wheel. Peak they are 1000w, the 750 is nominal. The batteries are rated for discharge at 50 amps

What is the cheapest and most effective way to increase speed? Upgrade controller? Upgrade motors?

Upgrading battery voltage is kinda outta the question as Id lose my awesome 55 ah unless I spend a bazillion bucks.

Thanks everyone!

 

[HANDSOME-TOM]

my viewpoint is to add a driver or a gearbox,firstly will make sure its torque whether enough if add a gearbox

 

[Ebikeman300]

Sorry I am quite new to getting my hands dirty with ebikes, could you elaborate on what you mean about in the second part? Also, what is a gearbox or driver?

 

[HANDSOME-TOM]

Sorry I am quite new to getting my hands dirty with ebikes, could you elaborate on what you mean about in the second part? Also, what is a gearbox or driver?

i think under the same torque to change a motor is the best cheapest

 

[Eastwood]

You mentioned 750 W, that must be geared hub motors?
Yeah, if you want to increase the speed, you would need higher voltage and a new controller. But., Then trying overpower a geared hub motor is not the best approach, a direct drive motor would be better for this scenario.

You could consider selling the bike and starting a new build, If top speed is important to you.

Edit: so I looked up your bike, website says it has a top speed of 34 mph which is good for an ebike. What speed are you trying to achieve?

 

[Chalo]

Upgrading battery voltage is kinda outta the question as Id lose my awesome 55 ah unless I spend a bazillion bucks.

Agreed. But that's what will net you the most top speed, no question. There are some other things you can do to get minor increases.

The next most effective thing is to increase wheel diameter. It looks like you could add 2-3" no problem, if you delete the fenders. Then relace the hubs to 24" or 26" (whatever fills the space best) and the fattest tires you have room for, and you can get that percentage of extra top speed, probably without doing anything else.

The next most effective thing you can do is to get lower on the bike. Swap those high rise bars for flat bars no wider than 24", and you'll present less of a bluff surface to the wind. The same power as before will move you faster. Pedal cyclists know this, but we e-bikers have forgotten, or never knew it, or don't care.

Smooth treaded tires (Vee Apache Fatty Slick 20" would fit your bike) will reduce the power required to maintain a given speed, and they'll increase your grip on pavement. But on both counts the effects will be pretty slight. Smooth tires that are smaller in diameter than what you have would help performance, but not top speed, so you want to find a tire that's as tall or taller than what you have now. .

After that? Hmm... not too much. More powerful controllers will dramatically increase acceleration and climbing ability, but would only increase top speed by a little bit.

With 55Ah of battery and 48 to 100A of current, the best way to go a lot faster would be to ride a real bike. Going as fast as possible with limited power is what they're all about. Obese dwarf bikes lose speed because obese and then lose more speed yet because dwarf. They get in their own way.

 

[calab]

What is the cheapest and most effective way to increase speed?

Pedaling with the right gears.

 

[E-HP]

Build a second faster bike rather than chucking all the parts from the one you have, or be just happy with what you have. Looks like a fun bike for the flats.

 

[Ebikeman300]

You mentioned 750 W, that must be geared hub motors?
Yeah, if you want to increase the speed, you would need higher voltage and a new controller. But., Then trying overpower a geared hub motor is not the best approach, a direct drive motor would be better for this scenario.

You could consider selling the bike and starting a new build, If top speed is important to you.

Edit: so I looked up your bike, website says it has a top speed of 34 mph which is good for an ebike. What speed are you trying to achieve?

I just want 40, a little more if possible. Would just a new controller get me there?

 

[Ebikeman300]

Agreed. But that's what will net you the most top speed, no question. There are some other things you can do to get minor increases.

The next most effective thing is to increase wheel diameter. It looks like you could add 2-3" no problem, if you delete the fenders. Then relace the hubs to 24" or 26" (whatever fills the space best) and the fattest tires you have room for, and you can get that percentage of extra top speed, probably without doing anything else.

The next most effective thing you can do is to get lower on the bike. Swap those high rise bars for flat bars no wider than 24", and you'll present less of a bluff surface to the wind. The same power as before will move you faster. Pedal cyclists know this, but we e-bikers have forgotten, or never knew it, or don't care.

Smooth treaded tires (Vee Apache Fatty Slick 20" would fit your bike) will reduce the power required to maintain a given speed, and they'll increase your grip on pavement. But on both counts the effects will be pretty slight. Smooth tires that are smaller in diameter than what you have would help performance, but not top speed, so you want to find a tire that's as tall or taller than what you have now. .

After that? Hmm... not too much. More powerful controllers will dramatically increase acceleration and climbing ability, but would only increase top speed by a little bit.

With 55Ah of battery and 48 to 100A of current, the best way to go a lot faster would be to ride a real bike. Going as fast as possible with limited power is what they're all about. Obese dwarf bikes lose speed because obese and then lose more speed yet because dwarf. They get in their own way.

How much drain would a new controller add to batteries?

How much top speed are we talking?

Honestly I only need 6 mph more or so, just to recover from a speed/acceleration hit I took when I put on motorcycle tires. I miss that 6mph lol.

 

[JackFlorey]

I just want 40, a little more if possible. Would just a new controller get me there?

IF your current controller will not do phase advance - perhaps. But phase advance is fairly lossy so I wouldn't do it if you want 40mph continuous.

 

[amberwolf]

Hello!

I own a Freego f3 pro max, and have been looking for ways to increase the speed after it took a hit due to motorcycle tires.

Did it do the speed you want before changing the tires?

If so, then changing them back will get you the speed back, or increasing the available power to the wheels.

there are 2 batteries each 48 v with 20 ah and 35 ah. They are not wired in series and both have their own individual loading points on bike. The motors are 750w, one on each wheel. Peak they are 1000w, the 750 is nominal. The batteries are rated for discharge at 50 amps

Are they *each* rated for 50A?

Or is that a total?

The controller is 24 amps,

Is it just one controller (or controller pair) for both motors, for a total of 24A?

If it's not a total of 24A, but 24A for each motor, then that's 48A, and if your batteries are limited to 50A total, then you cannot get more power out of the system without stressing the batteries or causing them to shutdown whenever you ask for the extra current, depending on how their overcurrent protection is setup.

If it's a total of 24A, then you could double that with a new pair of controllers for double the available power**** but you will be replacing the entire controller / display system, having to figure out the wiring for new controllers vs your existing stuff on the scooter, setting up any menus / etc on the new controller / display system it might have to work with your stuff, etc. It's not a plug-and-play option, and you may lose features you have if they aren't available on whatever new controller system you get.


**** note that whether your system can *use* that power depends on the load placed on the controller. Extra power doesn't give you extra speed by itself, it just enables that extra speed *if* the extra speed requires extra power under the specific riding conditions you have. See the simulators at ebikes.ca for how these interactions work.

What is the cheapest and most effective way to increase speed? Upgrade controller? Upgrade motors?

That depends on what is causing the speed loss.

 

[E-HP]

How much drain would a new controller add to batteries?

How much top speed are we talking?

Honestly I only need 6 mph more or so, just to recover from a speed/acceleration hit I took when I put on motorcycle tires. I miss that 6mph lol.

Run the packs in series and buy controllers that can handle 26S. Monitor the voltage of the 24Ah pack for charge status.
I’d advise adding temp sensors to the motors so you can keep from cooking the motors.

 

[E-HP]

**** note that whether your system can *use* that power depends on the load placed on the controller. Extra power doesn't give you extra speed by itself, it just enables that extra speed *if* the extra speed requires extra power under the specific riding conditions you have. See the simulators at ebikes.ca for how these interactions work.





That depends on what is causing the speed loss.

You can do a quick compare of the load curve in the Grin simulator to determine the power necessary to do 40mph and compare with the peak power the system is consuming now at 35mph. That will show if more power can overcome the wind resistance and yield more speed.

Looks like around 2300w for 40mph. It's unclear for the current system whether it's 24A @ 48V with 12A going to each motor, or if it's 24A x 2 @48V with 24A going to each motor. If the latter, then it's likely not power restricted

 

[Eastwood]

I just want 40, a little more if possible. Would just a new controller get me there?

Naw just the controller is not going to help with top speed. The voltage of the battery affect the rpm. So, if you just change the controller, TopSpeed would not increase, but if it was an adjustable controller, you could possibly get more acceleration, but that’s not gonna help with top speed.

Also, like I mentioned, you have the wrong motors to be trying to overvolt because they have plastic gears inside that wear out under normal use, so especially if you’re trying to push the motors hard.

If you wanna faster bike, I would recommend starting with new bike/build. Everything would need to replaced with your current bike.

A direct drive rear hub motor rated for 1500watts would suit you well. Also an adjustable controller with a 60v or 72v battery.

As a reference, I have a mountain bike with a 1500 W rear hub motor and 48 V battery and it gives me a top speed around 35mph. So that being said, you would need at least 60 V to increase speed. Also, it’s good measure to have more speed than you need so you’re not maxing out the motor while cruising.

 

[E-HP]

Also, it’s good measure to have more speed than you need so you’re not maxing out the motor while cruising.

This is important if you want usable speed. If the bike isn't accelerating at a decent clip when at full throttle, then any "speed" above that point is useless in normal riding. I see the YouTube videos where they test the "top speed" of ebikes, that go something like this "30mph!! ooo, ooo, 30.2mph!!, ooo 30.4mph!! whoa!! I saw 31mph OMG!!" , none of that is usable in normal riding (he should have been at 31mph before the first ooo); I consider those barely 25mph bikes, assuming the torque curve hasn't taken a dive by then, and they still have decent acceleration between 25mph and 30mph.

 

[Ebikeman300]

Did it do the speed you want before changing the tires?

If so, then changing them back will get you the speed back, or increasing the available power to the wheels.




Are they *each* rated for 50A?

Or is that a total?




Is it just one controller (or controller pair) for both motors, for a total of 24A?

If it's not a total of 24A, but 24A for each motor, then that's 48A, and if your batteries are limited to 50A total, then you cannot get more power out of the system without stressing the batteries or causing them to shutdown whenever you ask for the extra current, depending on how their overcurrent protection is setup.

If it's a total of 24A, then you could double that with a new pair of controllers for double the available power**** but you will be replacing the entire controller / display system, having to figure out the wiring for new controllers vs your existing stuff on the scooter, setting up any menus / etc on the new controller / display system it might have to work with your stuff, etc. It's not a plug-and-play option, and you may lose features you have if they aren't available on whatever new controller system you get.


**** note that whether your system can *use* that power depends on the load placed on the controller. Extra power doesn't give you extra speed by itself, it just enables that extra speed *if* the extra speed requires extra power under the specific riding conditions you have. See the simulators at ebikes.ca for how these interactions work.





That depends on what is causing the speed loss.

I'll find out about the controllers and get back to you. I'm pretty sure its a single 24amp controller though.

 

[nicobie]

Run the packs in series and buy controllers that can handle 26S. Monitor the voltage of the 24Ah pack for charge status.
I’d advise adding temp sensors to the motors so you can keep from cooking the motors.

This is the correct answer. Higher voltage is the only way to get a substantially higher speed.

 

[E-HP]

I'll find out about the controllers and get back to you. I'm pretty sure its a single 24amp controller though.

Two brushless motors can’t run off if a single controller, so it may be one metal box, but there are effectively two controllers housed inside. Take a picture of the label or any markings.

 

[Ebikeman300]

This is important if you want usable speed. If the bike isn't accelerating at a decent clip when at full throttle, then any "speed" above that point is useless in normal riding. I see the YouTube videos where they test the "top speed" of ebikes, that go something like this "30mph!! ooo, ooo, 30.2mph!!, ooo 30.4mph!! whoa!! I saw 31mph OMG!!" , none of that is usable in normal riding (he should have been at 31mph before the first ooo); I consider those barely 25mph bikes, assuming the torque curve hasn't taken a dive by then, and they still have decent acceleration between 25mph and 30mph.

Yeah, i get to 30 fast (27 on phone gps) and then its a slow climb to 34.

 

[Ebikeman300]

You can do a quick compare of the load curve in the Grin simulator to determine the power necessary to do 40mph and compare with the peak power the system is consuming now at 35mph. That will show if more power can overcome the wind resistance and yield more speed.

Looks like around 2300w for 40mph. It's unclear for the current system whether it's 24A @ 48V with 12A going to each motor, or if it's 24A x 2 @48V with 24A going to each motor. If the latter, then it's likely not power restricted

View attachment 342682

It's telling me that at 300 lbs (180lb me + 120lb bike) 2000 watts should get me 37 mph. This is a little higher than the current amount I get, but not by much, Only 3 miles faster. It seems that I am then pulling 2000 watts which likely means it isn't power restricted, correct? I can ask more about controllers