Testing Hall Sensor on Sur Ron

[chuzevolt]

Sur Ron lite bee
After some "urban trials" riding, I got a stuttering motor with low power. I thought I had partially shredded the primary belt and limped it home. Turns out the belt is in good shape. I tested other cut-off sensors and throttle on the bike and they are good. Testing the hall sensor I think I have found my problem but I want to double check before ordering a new one. Here is what I did -
Input voltage, (black and red wires) test at 4.0v. Advertised is 4.5v, but this may be OK as the battery is <50% charged?
One lead on the negative (black wire) and one on each of the phase wires:
Each phase wire (blue, green and yellow) does oscillate in output voltage, but only up to 0.6V. They were consistent in behavior across the lot, but I am assuming these values area too low and hall sensor needs to be replaced

 

[amberwolf]

You need to test using the hall sensor wires, not the phase wires.

The phase wires are just for the motor current to drive it. (which will have MUCH higher voltages than what you see, battery level voltages, so perhaps your meter is not working or setup correctly?).

For hall signal testing, the meter (for a typical multimeter) needs to be setup as 20VDC, red lead on the meter's DCV plug, black lead on the meter's Common or Ground plug. If the meter is battery powered, then a low battery can cause wrong readings (usually they read too high, rather than too low).

Grin Tech has a number of good troubleshooting documents, including how to test hall sensors here:
https://ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html

Keep in mind that typical ebike motor hall sensors don't output any voltage. They only ground the voltage provided by the controller on each hall signal wire from the controller. If the motor and controller are not connected, and not powered on, then you won't get any valid signals.

The signals should toggle between nearly ground (0.5-1v) and controller's pullup output level (usually 5v, sometimes 12v) every time a magnet passes a sensor inside the motor, so one magnet will change sensor output to ground level, then the next to controller output level, the next back to ground, etc. Any that doesnt' toggle *and* is definitely connected to the controller signal line and that line is supplying voltage.




The voltage on the hall sensor +5v wire can vary; it's typically around 4.5v because they often put a diode on it inside the controller in case of a short with a phase wire so it doesn't blow up the whole controller and everything else connectedt o the cotnroller 5v (throttle, etc). If it's too low, you won't get valid results from the hall sensors; depends on the p/n sensor actually used in the motor and what it's spec sheet says it requires for operation. Most will work at higher voltages, some up to 30v or more, but 3-4v is often the minimum supply voltage. It doesn't change voltage with battery voltage, unless something is wrong with the controller's internal voltage regulators. Those should keep all the supply voltages constant, other than the motor phase voltages.

Sur Ron lite bee
After some "urban trials" riding, I got a stuttering motor with low power. I thought I had partially shredded the primary belt and limped it home. Turns out the belt is in good shape. I tested other cut-off sensors and throttle on the bike and they are good. Testing the hall sensor I think I have found my problem but I want to double check before ordering a new one. Here is what I did -
Input voltage, (black and red wires) test at 4.0v. Advertised is 4.5v, but this may be OK as the battery is <50% charged?
One lead on the negative (black wire) and one on each of the phase wires:
Each phase wire (blue, green and yellow) does oscillate in output voltage, but only up to 0.6V. They were consistent in behavior across the lot, but I am assuming these values area too low and hall sensor needs to be replaced

 

[TommyCat]

From your description it sounds as though you're testing with the controller disconnected, or bench testing the motor...
As the motor's hall sensors need a source signal voltage from its controller that the sensor shorts to ground. When bench testing, one needs to be provided.

Graphic taken from this thread that will give you more information on testing a BLDC motor's electrical components...

Testing BLDC motor's Phase Wiring - Hall Sensors and Wiring.


Regards,
T.C.

 

[chuzevolt]

OK thanks this is helpful. I misspoke calling them "phase" wires, I am probing at the 6 pin connector that connects the hall sensor with the controller.
EDIT***You got me thinking about my test procedure. I did have the bike together, testing wires at the correct spot with motor and controller on, BUT my multi meter setting was incorrect. I switched it to 20v and got the correct reading. The sensor looks good. I have tried timing it forwards and backwards to improve this stuttering issue and have not had any success. What else should I test, the controller? I am looking back to the ebikes.ca website to see if there is info on testing controller there

 

[TommyCat]

Just to be clear… you tested all 3 motor position hall sensors and they passed? Triple checked the wiring,connector, and pin/contacts for both halls and phase coils?

What are your voltage readings now with the meter set correctly? Input as well as signals.

Helpful information seen here…
https://electricbike.com/forum/for...ight-bee-electrical-troubleshooting#post90011

 

[Jwildman]

Magnet broken?? Try puttin paper over it and iron dust to see the pattern. There is a post here.

Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

he wants from europe not from russia with triple prices ^^

endless-sphere.com

im working on an abs version using magnets from a pedal assist sensor disc. Seems hopefull. If it works out ill share the stl file on thingiverse..

 

[Jwildman]

3d printed in ABS. Hope it holds up. Will be testingit in a day or 2..

 

[Jwildman]

jimwildman's Thingiverse Profile

Computer Programmer, Circuit designer, and Fabricator.

www.thingiverse.com

Hall Sensor Magnet info - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

So My Buddy rode all winter, and the water got in through the hall port. split the casing off the sensor, and cracked the magnet, on one of the sub zero nights. The sensor we have a replacement for, also have the motor apart and it looks fine other than the magnet ring.. Anyone have any idea on...

electricbike.com

 

[Jwildman]

The bike has been out on 2 rides at the local dirt jumps and is working like new. It still cool here so cant say its been heat tested. But considering there are other ABS parts in the same area im confident it is within its range.. if motor goes up to 350f it will start to soften the plastic. I dont see that happening with a stock bike. most controllers would shutdown before that.