waste of time. don't bother.

[Anonymous]

Hi,
I bought a scooter and am moving all the grip shift, controller, batteries, cabling, to a bicycle.
I have currently got a cheap-ish 100 watt/ 120 watt controller for my scooter project conversion, sadly the controller won't turn the motor when I plug it in. it used to work when i plugged the motor in while the controller was on the scooter, but now after i removed the controller from the scooter completely and tried to reconnect it, i have wired it up wrong and not for love nor money will it spin the motor.



I have 2 more of these controllers so i am sure the controller hasn't burn out (no smoke, no arid fumes, nothing, the motor just won't work because I have not hooked it up correctly.
previously, when the controller was plugged into a 'fuse' and had a 'brake cable'(cut-out switch) attached to it it would turn the motor, so now i am at a loss as to whether.
1. it needs the fuse re-attached, and to which cable?
2. does it rely on having the brake cut-out as well? (deducting from answers below, this is a no it only needs the lock and derailleur assembly plugged in.

3: which cable goes where is a mystery to me, there are four red cables and two black ones. i also wouldn't assume the two black cables connect to one another because one of the black cables connected to the fuse (becoming a red cable) out the other end of the fuse plugging into the ''LOCK'' part of the controller.





here's another pic of the wire setup:



if anyone has had some experience with this then please help me, as I am at a loss as to what to do and do not want to burn the controllers out.

I have updated some pictures.

update: I have burnt out my first controller due to stupid wiring and have ordered another one off ebay, received the 2nd controller and was DOA, luckily the third one works and spins the motor but the throttle still doesn't work when I press it, it's definitely a wiring issue.

 

[Gow864]

I think that the block marked "lock" will need to be shorted to make it work. This generally runs to the key switch.

Gow.

 

[fechter]

I don't have direct experience with that model, but generally the brake input does not need to be connected to make it work. The Lock connector should probably be connected like Gow864 says.
If you have a voltmeter, you could measure the voltage on the 'deralleur' connector, which I assume is going to your throttle. Most controllers will have 5v on the + connection, and you should see the signal line go from around 1v to around 4v as you advance the throttle.

 

[TylerDurden]

Posting clear images of both sides of the controller will help.

 

[Anonymous]

Posting clear images of both sides of the controller will help.

i've posted clearer pictures of the back of the controller. thank you for the tip

 

[TylerDurden]

Yeah, what the other folks said: short the two pins for 'lock'. If the brake cable is plugged-in, make sure the lever is not depressed/actuated (or unplug the cable).

Double check your battery & motor polarities with a meter.

 

[Anonymous]

I did get a reading of 5VOLTS when I checked the derailleur tab using the multimeter.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't have direct experience with that model, but generally the brake input does not need to be connected to make it work. The Lock connector should probably be connected like Gow864 says.
If you have a voltmeter, you could measure the voltage on the 'deralleur' connector, which I assume is going to your throttle. Most controllers will have 5v on the + connection, and you should see the signal line go from around 1v to around 4v as you advance the throttle.

the voltmeter DOES get a reading, but the motor still does not spin and now it DOES get a reading from the derailleur, so is the derailleur the problem? how does one fix a derailleur?

 

[Anonymous]

Hello everybody

I have been looking high and low for a suitable sprocket for the Etek motor. the shaft size is 19mm so I would need a sprocket that is 20mm.

I have been unsuccessful, and the only thing i found was a freewheel (good) sprocket from Cyclone.tw who's shaft size was far too small, ending in a wobbly sprocket

I have no access to a lathe or any milling equipment as I live in a rather rural part. also, the only tooks I presently own is a power drill and some hand-tools - that's all I have to work with.

 

[fechter]

Are you using a twist throttle? I don't know what the deralleur thing looks like, but the ones I've seen function like a throttle when the chain increases in tension so it's a pedal activated system.

Normally, the motor should go full throttle when you connect the + wire to the signal wire.

You could get a whole new controller for cheap on ebay.

 

[fechter]

You might try asking Dave:
http://www.electricrider.com/custom/index.htm

 

[Electricdirtbiker]

If your refering to the eariler eteks, shafts come in 3/4" and 7/8". 19mm (.748") is close to the 3/4" size. McMaster Carr, online mail order, has many roller chain sprockets to choose from in 3/4". A sprocket with a 20mm (.787") bore would be too loose to attach. Try to seek out friends or local services that can machine or weld. Mounting an etek, batteries and controller on a bike platform is a handful of a project. I converted a honda cr85 using an etek running at 48v. Its a blast to ride, but the etek will break anything in the drive train that is marginal, including the rider. Let us know how its coming along.

Wesley

 

[Electricdirtbiker]

I checked the McMaster Carr book and I think bicycle chain pitch and roller diameters are the same as on an ansi #41 sprockets. However #41 sprocket is too wide to fit a bicycle chain.
It has to be machined thinner, till it fits a bicycle chain. I have not come across bicycle type sprockets with motor shaft bores in them.

 

[Anonymous]

If your refering to the eariler eteks, shafts come in 3/4" and 7/8". 19mm (.748") is close to the 3/4" size. McMaster Carr, online mail order, has many roller chain sprockets to choose from in 3/4". A sprocket with a 20mm (.787") bore would be too loose to attach. Try to seek out friends or local services that can machine or weld. Mounting an etek, batteries and controller on a bike platform is a handful of a project. I converted a honda cr85 using an etek running at 48v. Its a blast to ride, but the etek will break anything in the drive train that is marginal, including the rider. Let us know how its coming along.

Wesley

well, so far I've gone through the main parts, and like you said, it is quite a handful if you're starting brand new, and the controller I chose to install today did not make it easier.
see I figured that a small-ish 100watt or 250watt controller wouldn't break the chain, and would create a gentler power curve, making it easier on the derailleur.

the part that I'm stuck on right now, (the bit to complete before finishing the mount for the ebike) is the controller's throttle grip. I can't figure out the cabling not for love nor money, it's a hall throttle, and is based on the small razor-style 100 watt controller. it's practically a relay-box but it does the job well for what I want it. the etek is big overkill for such a tiny controller, but then I didn't want to spend on an alltrax or kelly controller and want the closest thing to a switch there is.

 

[Anonymous]

You might try asking Dave:
http://www.electricrider.com/custom/index.htm

do you know of a way to use a drill as a lathe/milling tool? 19mm is asking a lot, but do you think it could be done? how would I keep it straight perhaps drill both on a wooden makeshift pedestal with a sliding bit of wood? what do you think? (I have no knowledge of anybody in this area with milling abilities)

 

[Anonymous]

Are you using a twist throttle? I don't know what the deralleur thing looks like, but the ones I've seen function like a throttle when the chain increases in tension so it's a pedal activated system.

Normally, the motor should go full throttle when you connect the + wire to the signal wire.

You could get a whole new controller for cheap on ebay.

would a 250watt controller suit?

 

[Anonymous]

Are you using a twist throttle? I don't know what the deralleur thing looks like, but the ones I've seen function like a throttle when the chain increases in tension so it's a pedal activated system.

Normally, the motor should go full throttle when you connect the + wire to the signal wire.

You could get a whole new controller for cheap on ebay.

that's a derailleur, it's a throttle control thing, it's been misnamed on the controller block.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Razor-Electric-Scooter-E-Bike-Start-Throttle-Original_W0QQitemZ170394102751QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CartsParts_Vehicles_ATVQuad_Trike_Parts_Accessories_SM?hash=item27ac47abdf

 

[Electricdirtbiker]

How many volts and what type of batteries are you using? A free spinning etek draws about 4 amps. if you are using say a 36 volt battery pack, then 4 x 36 = 144 watts. You will already be at your motor controller's limit without an external load.
Does your controller have an amp and voltage limit printed on it? 200watts would be closer to whats used in a small push scooter.
I too enjoy taking a part from here and there for my projects, mostly to save a few bucks. You can do that in the lower power systems. But its a balancing act to be sure everything is fairly balanced and up to the job and safe. The weakest link in the chain (pun) fails first. Your controller is likely the weakest link. When they fail, they can be shorted closed or blown open. Open is not too much a problem except for the long walk and smoke. A shorted controller will send all the power across to the motor and the bike will take off quicker than you can stop it. The more undersized the controller is, the more likely one of the 2 conditions will happen. Try to include some kind of battery quick disconnect in your design so you can shut down the power in an emergency. I don't know too much about hall type speed controllers. I would ask in a seperate topic.
The load to the derailer is the same no matter the torque of the drive. The sprockets and rachet that will break first. I've ran almost 6hp through my little motocross bicycle and the pieces in the cassette still held, for now.
Most of the quality sprockets are case harden for wear. So theres a fair amount of hardened metal to remove and it needs to be cut straight to not wobble. How many teeth do you need? You could put an ad in the wanted section of this forum seeking what you need done, all through the mail.
Do you have a picture of your bike?

Wesley

 

[diver]

i bought my sprockets at mc carr and used 35 chaine on my etek dual powered trike. I have it at 72 volts with a altrax 450 amp controller. all i can say is hold on when its finished. my trike was ok powered by one etek but now with two it is just plain ol fun.

 

[Electricdirtbiker]

Thats where I buy my sprockets too. I also use a #35 chain to a jack shaft and then a #42 chain drive on the final. What surprises me is the jack shaft is a 3/4" keyed aluminum shaft and is still holding. I thought the key way would start getting sloppy and I would have to change shaft materials. I use an orginal etek running on 48v from a123 pack, and also an alltrak 72v, 450amp controller. I like having an oversize controller with lots of margin.
Tell me about your trike, sounds interesting.

Wesley

 

[Anonymous]

You might try asking Dave:
http://www.electricrider.com/custom/index.htm

I asked dave, and he wasn't very enthusiastic, he compared it to a race car and told me that out of the five people that had ridden it four haven't tried again...I'm skeptical :|

 

[Anonymous]

How many volts and what type of batteries are you using? A free spinning etek draws about 4 amps. if you are using say a 36 volt battery pack, then 4 x 36 = 144 watts. You will already be at your motor controller's limit without an external load.
Does your controller have an amp and voltage limit printed on it? 200watts would be closer to whats used in a small push scooter.
I too enjoy taking a part from here and there for my projects, mostly to save a few bucks. You can do that in the lower power systems. But its a balancing act to be sure everything is fairly balanced and up to the job and safe. The weakest link in the chain (pun) fails first. Your controller is likely the weakest link. When they fail, they can be shorted closed or blown open. Open is not too much a problem except for the long walk and smoke. A shorted controller will send all the power across to the motor and the bike will take off quicker than you can stop it. The more undersized the controller is, the more likely one of the 2 conditions will happen. Try to include some kind of battery quick disconnect in your design so you can shut down the power in an emergency. I don't know too much about hall type speed controllers. I would ask in a seperate topic.
The load to the derailer is the same no matter the torque of the drive. The sprockets and rachet that will break first. I've ran almost 6hp through my little motocross bicycle and the pieces in the cassette still held, for now.
Most of the quality sprockets are case harden for wear. So theres a fair amount of hardened metal to remove and it needs to be cut straight to not wobble. How many teeth do you need? You could put an ad in the wanted section of this forum seeking what you need done, all through the mail.
Do you have a picture of your bike?

Wesley

I am using 24volts for now, I did not realize that the controller was that pushed, well, is there a relay system that I could perhaps adapt? an industrial 12v relay in series sounds like the ticket. I will definitely place a kill switch, I have a switch handy for just that scenario, I witnessed one of my controllers blow open yesterday, I can't think how terrifying that must be on the bicycle...we shall see...I'm sure I could place the battery on the negatives to run on the switch, that shouldn't create too big a spark (or will it? time will tell). I will be uploading loads of pictures pretty soon once I get the right screws and bits to mount the motor.

something tells me I need to give up on chinese controllers and use a better throttle control mechanism, i think the most expensive controller I could find was at £38, that's a 1500 watt rated at 60volts. sounds good to me.

 

[Electricdirtbiker]

24v is a good starting voltage. Using relays or switches you could parallel 2 12v batteries for a low speed and switch to series for 24v high speed. The arc going to high won't be too bad, but the low speed will be interesting. With relays, there is a danger of the contacts welding themselves shut.
The chinese controllers work ok for the application they were intended for, but there is little margin over that. Thats part of why they don't cost too much. 1500watts is much better, especially with a 24v system. However if your batteries are healthy, an etek can easily draw 300 amps or more. Thats +7200 watts.
Where are you located, perhaps I can point you to some resources?
Wesley

 

[Anonymous]

24v is a good starting voltage. Using relays or switches you could parallel 2 12v batteries for a low speed and switch to series for 24v high speed. The arc going to high won't be too bad, but the low speed will be interesting. With relays, there is a danger of the contacts welding themselves shut.
The chinese controllers work ok for the application they were intended for, but there is little margin over that. Thats part of why they don't cost too much. 1500watts is much better, especially with a 24v system. However if your batteries are healthy, an etek can easily draw 300 amps or more. Thats +7200 watts.
Where are you located, perhaps I can point you to some resources?
Wesley

Hi, first of all, thank you so much for the post, I suppose arc-ing is my main fear, I wonder what sort of relay i'd need? i don't know if you could guide me as to the correct resistance? I live in stafford, in the UK. 24v sounded safe :lol: but when i turned the etek on....jet engine!

 

[Anonymous]

Hello wonderful members,

I have had an idea on my mind sometime and being unable to afford even a cheap curtis controller had set about looking online for an alternative to make my 'throttle grip' work without the controller.
Given the fact that without the controller I have welded together at least two switches today I can confidently state that I am still just as far from reaching my goal as ever.
I have come across this diagram


that I would like to put into working order. it shows an alternative to the speed controller in that the switch goes along a variable resistor outlay (graphite? or something much more resistive) and then gradually reaches the second switch for faster...and so on

please help, as I am going through hell's peak trying to build this thing...if it helps at all I have in my possession a 500k slider potentiometer (which i've burnt out) but the mechanism is still there, but more importantly how do i build this thing??!

regards

Nad