Water bottle battery

mihai_atanasiu said:
very interesting pictures; are the green cells A123 26650 cells ?

Can you measure one cell ? if it has 26 mm diameter it is A123 26650.


Sorry, it is a Lithium ion 10 S. Maybe 18650 round cells.
Click to expand...
I sorry. The images are taken from another forum in the web. I still not open the pack.
 
mihai_atanasiu said:
You have 40 cells total; because there is 10S you have ten strings of four cells in parallel.
For 14S you need another 16 cells to make four strings; But, first thing: the bottle is too small; second, you need another BMS for 14S; third you need another charger.

It's not so easy to upgrade an existing pack;
Click to expand...
No, I have 40 cells but i want to buy 2. There are place for them in a holder. 42/3=14s3p. The charger is cheap but I hoped that would modify.
 
skeetab5780 said:
well you can always ditch the bottle and add on the pack with more cells of your choice.. if you get the same 26650 cells you can just bulk charge with a power supply and not have to worry about the bms, just make sure you balance your pack on weekends or check up on them.

also make sure your controller can handle the voltage before you plug in and smoke your capacitors
Click to expand...
My caps are very small, 50v allthougth i spected that with the 10% tolerance I could use, but would buy a new controlador or update the capacitors. I think that's not the problem, but I do not want problems with the battery, explode or shorten your life. How can I balance the battery on weekends? Can I run without bms? And charge it?
 
dnmun said:
yep, there is nothing you can do but eat the lesson you learned. if you buy a little bitty battery you cannot make it into a linebacker.

in order to use that as a 14S battery you would need to find a14S BMS or hack the new BMS down to 14S from 16S which you can obtain commercially.

the cells would have to be identical, essentially from the same lot or manufacturer with the same encapsulation and tabs. the internal resistance can be so different in those different manufactured lifepo4 cans that the pack would never balance with those 100 ohm shunt resistors even if the processor ran the shunt transistors full on all the time, but they always have big hysteresis between HVC and the cut on voltage added to the change in the internal resistance as it ages makes it very difficult if not impossible to keep the pack balanced. just wait and buy a bigger battery that will supply enuff power from the beginning.
Click to expand...
Yes, so was wondering if anyone has experience modifying these bms. I know there are batteries of this type of 24, 36 and 48v, and so in my battery there are two holes to add two more cells, and maybe the bms only is modified some resistance. The pack is new, it have less 15 charges. And the batteries from this pack are sold loose.
 
Sorry just use the battery you got and save up for 48v 12ah or better. A sheep has 4 legs and a horse has four legs but would be a funny animal if put togethere. O.K.
 
Yes with 42 cells you can make an 14S3P pack; but with these li-ion 18650 cells that it is not a good solution; these cells are max 2C; in practice it is good to use them 1C max. 3P is 6.6Ah that is too low. And you still need another BMS for 14S; that 10S BMS cannot be modified for 14S; and to run your pack without BMS is crazy. Also you need a charger because it is difficult to modify the existing charger.

Like other say, use the pack as is and in the future buy another pack; or try to sell it now;
 
he doesn't have to sell it, he can keep it and combine it with a 48V battery if that is what he wants. he would use diodes on top of this pack and combine the two together so that the 48V pack would do the most work until the lower voltage pack began to add power as the voltage dropped, and then when the 48V pack shuts for LVC the small pack would provide the empty tank ride home or to the charger.

it just is not possible to hack that BMS to 14S and cutting up that pack and finding cells identical is not feasible and the soldering would introduce more variations in the combined resistance of the 3 cells in parallel.

but you can get a 16S BMS and hack it to 14S too. then ask the guy who built the pack to sell you two identical cells and do it.

adjusting the charger voltage is pretty easy to do. but the cut and paste of all those nickel coated straps. i hate that.
 
Wish I'd found this thread some time ago, I am building a Globe single speed with a bottle battery. Is the outfit still going ok?
 
Samd said:
Wish I'd found this thread some time ago, I am building a Globe single speed with a bottle battery. Is the outfit still going ok?
Click to expand...
Yes. Rather surprisingly actually.

Last month we removed the ebike kit and put the Globe up for sale without it. It did not sell, but the MAC/Fisher ebike we listed sold instantly. So we reinstalled the Cute100/bottle battery kit back on the Globe and for whatever reason, it seems to run better than before. It is quieter going up our killer hill than the MXUS with the 39v battery that is now on the Bella Ciao. Not sure why.

When warm weather comes in a month or so (we are in the southern hemisphere), we will relist the Globe with kit for sale, but for now it serves as a backup bike until the Bafang CST motor arrives. We want to try the CST on a Montague Crosstown with a bottle battery made with NCM cells. As usual, we are pushing the envelope, so everything takes more time to get.

For someone starting from scratch, I would not say that the Globe is the best combination of price and performance... The traditional European steel tube bikes are a much nicer ride and are reasonably priced for what you get.

However, few people are buying bikes for a lifetime anymore (I still have my 1971 Peugeot PX-10) so as a bike for a few seasons, if you have already bought the Globe, you should do fine with it. If not, I would recommend either a new European city bike, or a classic like a Raliegh (provided you can put good brakes on it).

Good luck and be sure to post some pics when you are done.
 
Thats interesting. I've got a front ezee in a 700c wheel coming, I nearly bought a BPM/MAC/Puma but spent the extra and will run it on RC LIPO at 10S 17A (~700W pk), just for a flat commuter to work in my suit.

I chose the globe due to the minimal look, and the aluminium back end keeps the weight down for when adding back the battery and motor. I'm making a retro wooden triangle frame box with a vintage feel. And I want to swap the front basket for a porteur style beer crate holder like yours.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44284

But the cuteq100/bottle battery could make a great wife bike out of the box for cruising around central Ballarat and school runs. How do you find the torque on the cute? How many amps are you dumping into it?

I hear ya on the weather front. Greets from across the pond in OZ.

SD
 
Samd said:
But the cuteq100/bottle battery could make a great wife bike out of the box for cruising around central Ballarat and school runs. How do you find the torque on the cute? How many amps are you dumping into it?
SD
Click to expand...

Torque is enough to get me up our hill with strong but not leg-sapping pedalling. We don't get a lot of flat riding here, so it's either assist uphill, or motor-off downhill. No idea how many amps, but I expect it's not great... it's the Chinese kit from http://elifebike.com.

If you want a nice setup for your wife, I would recommend a classic bike such as this restored one http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/fitzroy/bicycles/1960-s-genuine-ladies-vintage-bike/1007667988 from a guy in your neighbourhood who restores old bikes. Presuming it uses a cassette, install a Bafang CST rear motor and a S530 32 pulse pedalec sensor.
 
A question for those of you that have a bottle battery on your bike. I have a 36v bottle battery from BMS Battery but it came with no instructions. At the bottom of the battery is a multi-segmented light with green and red segments. It illuminates when the battery is turned on and the button in the middle of the light display is pressed. I presume this is some kind of charge indicator. Does it show how much charge I have left? How accurate is it?

 
It works on voltage. Don't take too much notice of it. You can get a nice little waterproof LED voltmeter from Ebay for next to nothing, which is much better to figure out what's happening with your battery.
 
Is that the 8a or the 10.4a? My roommate has the 10.4 on his bike and yes the lights are the battery gauge and it's pretty accurate. On the site under the description or specs there are some special instructions for charging the battery. For some reason the instructions say to turn the battery on during charging. It may be that the battery has to be on for the BMS to function properly and balance charge the battery. My roommate does this and has had no ill affects. What kind of motor/controller do you have it hooked up to? Did you already wire the connector to mate up with your controller? If it's the connector with four connection points for the wires there are numbers on the connector if you take it apart to solder on your wires. They are, 1,2,3,4. 1 and 2 are positive and 3 and 4 are negative. I hope this helps.
 
It's the 10.4ah battery. I started off using a KU65 controller but for some reason it didn't seem to be compatible with the 328rpm Q100 so I switched to an inexpensive controller from Greentime. I emailed my controller concerns to BMS Battery but after 3 emails they have yet to respond. The bike runs great (about 22mph with 700c wheels). I haven't figured out what my range is yet; I just keep checking my odometer waiting for the controller to shut off the motor when the battery gets low enough.
 
I would like to buy a water bottle battery. I was hoping to find a l-ion battery shaped like a water bottle to use with a 350Watt motor. 36V, ~10AH. I have seen many on ebay but they are rather large... 90mm diameter by 330mm length. Does anyone know of any smaller sized water bottle type batteries? I saw one on keyde that was 72mm by 210mm but I couldnt see how it hooked up to the motor or how to buy it.

Thanks for any help,
Ian
 
The smaller size one may have been less than 10 ah.

Get at least 10 ah, unless your bike is truly only 250w.

Look for limn rather than lifepo4, that will be the smallest 10 ah package. They call them water bottle batteries because the use the water bottle cage mounts. They are not the size of a water bottle. More like double that size.
 
If you don't get a battery strong enough to match your controller and motor you will just blow it up and waste money. What is your motor controller combo ? I to would like a battery that would fit in a bottle cage. But find for my needs it will never be done.
 
Thanks for the help. I was really surprised to find a smaller bottle that claims to have > 10ah. I just can't figure out how it attaches to the bike, how to buy it or if it is really that small.

I found it here:
http://www.keyde.com/?do=product&lang=en&event=view&ids=61
Images are of the bottle and the specs.

Anyone have any thoughts or have seen anything similar? I am going to have a 350W 36V geared rear motor.
 

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pendragon8000 said:
Hi Ian,
Can't speaks for quality , but the company has done OK with my buying of a 1.2kw charger.
http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/571-bottle-ebike-battery.html
Looks cool with USB charger output.
Click to expand...


I ordered one of those on sep 9th to inspect it's construction and test, still not shipped, tracking number given to me shows " cancelled " ..

not cool.
 
10 ah will be big enough. Wattage ratings of kits is so full of bull, but 12 amps controller is small, so 10 ah is ok.

Hopefully the bottle battery comes with some kind of plug and wire to connect to the bottle. The other end, you put a connector onto that that matches the plug on your controller.

Those bottle batteries bolt to the bike using the same bolt holes in the frame you would use to put a bottle cage on a bike.
 
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