arthurtuxedo said:
The purchase price might be similar, but that used car will drive you straight into the poorhouse. The 5-year total cost of ownership on any 4-wheeled motor vehicle is well into the tens of thousands of dollars.
Almost no one I know that drives a car takes any costs other than the initial one into consideration when buying one. I suspect that is a fairly common attitude, and is why I did not bring any of that up, because the people that think that way are some of the ones that wouldn't buy a bike instead of a car.
That's part of the problem with our consumerist society in general--not considering the future costs of things. :/
This is the chicken and egg problem. Negative attitudes cause low ridership, leading to lack of education and advocacy, and lack of investment in bike infrastructure. This lack of investment means safety (and more importantly, perceived safety) does not improve feeding right back into negative attitudes and starting the loop over again.
Yeah, and that's why I pointed it out. It wont' change until it's forced to happen, and I don't know of a way to do that.
Agreed on all points, although in an ideal world planners would recognize that the cost to provide adequate infrastructure for bikes is a small fraction of the cost to provide it for the same number of auto drivers and passengers.
The catch is getting them to provide it even though they don't see the need for it (yet), *and* getting them to see bikes as a primary transportation mode rather than an annoyance that carry undesirable people to their location.
(which can unfortunately be true in some areas--there's places I sometimes have to go where I won't stop to help a "fellow cyclist" because they are just as likely to hurt/rob/etc me as they are to accept help, especially when there is a group of them. At my workplace and places I shop for groceries at, a significant portion of the bike riders that come are thieves and not customers).
Folding bikes go a long way to solving the theft issue, but it's hard to make a folder that's also a decent electric.
I don't know about that--I've ridden around on a little old Prodeco Mariner, and it was good enough to handle anything I would have asked of a normal bicycle, though it was too heavy for me to carry like I would have a regular folder--to use it on a permanent basis I'd've had to do something like Brompton has, putting wheels/casters on the rear rack.
However, small/portable folding bikes don't make great cargo bikes, expecially heavy-duty ones which are one good way to completely replace a car.
See my CrazyBike2 and SB Cruiser threads for a couple of "extreme" cargo cycles, which while they're not something most people would use, but there are quite a few that could use them if they knew they existed and were willing to make the rest of the lifestyle changes needed to ditch the car and go with a cargo 'cycle. There's a few people I've talked to while riding those, especially the trike, who are definitely interested in the idea, but not yet willing to commit to the rest, even though I'm proof that owning/driving a car is not necessary; that I can do what I need to with just the trike or bike (and a trailer for occasional stuff that can't fit onboard).
Quite a few are interested in them as toys, entertainment, bragging rights, etc.,
Agreed, but I would argue that it's mostly due to ignorance. If people ever stopped to consider the heavy price they are paying in lost time, health, stress, and money, they might not be so fond of their cars.
I've talked to a fair number of people over the years, and while some *added* a bike to their transportation lineup, none have eliminated the car from it, or even used the bikes to do serious replacements of car trips. I think one couple did start using their bikes for a fair bit of local grocery trips, but I don't know that they are still doing that, nor did it replace even a minor amount of their car usage, relatively speaking. (or get them to get rid of any of their multiple cars).
Even the coworker I've loaned an ebike to only uses it for her work commute (less than 1/2 mile) sometimes, and when she goes home for lunch she drives her car back more often than she rides the bike back.
Another coworker I gave a pedal bike to (also living less than 1/2 mile away) used it until a car was available, then didn't use it anymore. Same thing with each other person I've given a bike to; only ones that didn't stop using the bike haven't got the option of a car yet.
I've offered bikes to others and they're unwilling to even try, even if it was electric and they wouldn't have to pedal at all. They'd rather walk, take the bus, or get rides from others in cars. A couple of them would rather spend money on taxis and uber/etc than ride a bike, even though they don't even make enough money to afford food or utilities all the time.
and I find myself instinctively starting to do things like drive on the sidewalk to get around jams before I stop myself.
Unfortunatley there's a fair number of drivers that will do that on purpose, even if the sidewalk is occupied. There's a lot of roadside murder marker sites around town from them.
I may be an oddball, but I suspect a significant chunk of the population would come around to that view if they had my experiences
I'd love that to be the case...but I doubt it. Until the whole process changes from a young age, I dont think people's POV will change.
I myself would probably be driving a car if it weren't for a set of circumstances back when I first had the chance to buy a used one from my first real job, once I'd moved up far enough after a few years. I bought an old Mustang from the year I was born, and a parts car came with it; I was going to rebuild them into one really nice car. But my mom's car died unfixably (too expensive) and there was no chance of getting her another anytime soon, and she had to drive to work every day (*she* wasn't a possible cyclist, and ebikes weren't evolved enough for that even if I'd heard of them). So she got my fixed-enough-to-drive car, and I kept using my pedal bike, and getting rides from her, etc.
More stuff (layoffs, back to square one pay-wise, mom having heart attacks and being unable to work, etc) happened over time, and I just never got out of bikes and into cars, mostly because of money (lack of it). By the time I finally could've just about afforded a car, I was just beginning to attempt to figure out DIY ebikes (DayGlo Avenger), and then the place I'd worked a dozen years for went out of business, and I was back to (below, actually) square one with money, so I just stuck with bikes; it'd already become my way of life.
Overall it's probably much better that I never got into car driving, financially--though using a bicycle for transport has actually cost me a few jobs, due to their (illegal?) bias against anyone that rides one instead of driving a car.
