Panasonic 18650PF vs. Samsung 25R

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LikeToRideMyBike

100 W
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Jan 9, 2016
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I'm looking to make a custom battery for myself that's reliable and doesn't get too hot, as I'll be wearing the battery pack in a backpack on my back. I'm trying to decide between the panasonic 18650PF cells and the Samsung 25R cells. Both are suppose to be great, so which would you choose. Thanks peeps of the Endless-sphere! :p
 
electricbike said:
How many amp is your controller? You can paralell as many cells as you need.
I actually think he meant 29E.
Click to expand...

Sorry I actually meant Samsung 25r cells. I have a BBS02 750w that puts out 25 amps from the controller.
 
It seems that the Samsung 25R cells are cheaper, but the Panasonic PF cells are the best. I'm just not sure what the difference is. I know that 25r's are 2500mah and PF's are 2900mah, so if I'm not mistaken the PF's have more discharge power...? I've been studying a lot lately but have yet to come across a comprehensive article that compares name brand cells (advantages/disadvantages). If anyone can point me in that direction I would appreciate the help. Thanks all. Ride on
 
LikeToRideMyBike said:
It seems that the Samsung 25R cells are cheaper, but the Panasonic PF cells are the best. I'm just not sure what the difference is. I know that 25r's are 2500mah and PF's are 2900mah, so if I'm not mistaken the PF's have more discharge power...? I've been studying a lot lately but have yet to come across a comprehensive article that compares name brand cells (advantages/disadvantages). If anyone can point me in that direction I would appreciate the help. Thanks all. Ride on
Click to expand...
I believe 25R cell can do 20A continuous, PF 10A. Also the PF may be able to do more cycles, but not seen documentation on that. https://www.electricbike.com/18650-cells-for-e-bike/
 
IOW's the PF cell is rated at 3.4C, and the 25R is rated at 8C.
 
Ok guys, so it sounds to me like the 25R is the superior cell. With a higher C rating and a higher output amperage. But what about the mah? Samsung 25r = 2500mah & Panasonic PF = 2900mah How does that affect performance? Doesn't a higher mah = good?

Thanks for the article BTW Jon NCal!

And just so you guys know. I'll be making a 48v11ah 13s4p 30A pack for my BBS02 750w motor. I want to get the most range and performance I possibly can out of this little pack! https://endless-sphere.com/forums/images/icons/smile/mrgreen.gif
 
LikeToRideMyBike said:
And just so you guys know. I'll be making a 48v11ah 13s4p 30A pack for my BBS02 750w motor. I want to get the most range and performance I possibly can out of this little pack! https://endless-sphere.com/forums/images/icons/smile/mrgreen.gif
Click to expand...

Range is a function of capacity (mAhr), but performance is a vague term ? ..what exactly do you mean ?
If you only need 30A max, then neither of those cells are the optimum choice.
Consider something like the Samsung 30Q, or the Sanyo 3500GA.
 
Hillhater said:
LikeToRideMyBike said:
And just so you guys know. I'll be making a 48v11ah 13s4p 30A pack for my BBS02 750w motor. I want to get the most range and performance I possibly can out of this little pack! https://endless-sphere.com/forums/images/icons/smile/mrgreen.gif
Click to expand...

Range is a function of capacity (mAhr), but performance is a vague term ? ..what exactly do you mean ?
If you only need 30A max, then neither of those cells are the optimum choice.
Consider something like the Samsung 30Q, or the Sanyo 3500GA.
Click to expand...

ok, thanks Hillhater. Nice username. :D I haven't looked into those cells at all yet. By performance I guess I mean holding the highest nominal capacity for longest. So I guess that would also have to do with range. I will usually be charging the battery to 90% capacity, so I want it to hold those 48.8v as long as possible, so i can get optimal power for longer periods. Does that make sense?

I'll look into those other cells.
 
Hillhater said:
Also check LG HG 2, another good 3.0Ahr cell with high current discharge.
And you may find this useful...https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=70147
Click to expand...

Wow, so the 35E look like a great cell. An improvement upon the 29E.
 
The PF pack will be rated for 40A and the 25r pack will be rated for 80A. The 25r pack will have less sag and thus perform better on acceleration. The PF pack may give you a little more range, but it probably won't be much if any. The PF will sag to LVC before the 25r would. So if you want more power, go with the 25R. You also may want to look at the 30Q.
 
wesnewell said:
The PF pack will be rated for 40A and the 25r pack will be rated for 80A. The 25r pack will have less sag and thus perform better on acceleration. The PF pack may give you a little more range, but it probably won't be much if any. The PF will sag to LVC before the 25r would. So if you want more power, go with the 25R. You also may want to look at the 30Q.
Click to expand...

Thanks wesnewell! I have a lot of options, and a lot of research to do. I've changed my mind from making a 13s4p pack to making a 14s4p pack. That'll give me a little more power & I'll only have to add 4 new cells. And if I'm not mistaken, a 14s4p will have more range than a 13s4p configuration; considering that the cells are the same in both. Anyone know any good trusted dealers for cells for a reasonable price? I've searched Alibaba and find unbelievable prices, but sometime question the integrity of some of the dealers. I've searched Fastech but they're prices are too high... What do you guys think?
 
999zip999 said:
Where you live ? Do you have a spot welder ?
Click to expand...

I live in Arkansas... Yes, I just ordered a spot welder. Electric bikes aren't a thing here yet. I'm definitely one of the first.
 
Hillhater said:
Also check LG HG 2, another good 3.0Ahr cell with high current discharge.
And you may find this useful...https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=70147
Click to expand...

These LG HG 2 look amazing! Same max current as the 25r but higher Ah. A lower c rating but not by much. 6.6C. I was looking at your later comment about sag and LVC and the cells with a lower max current dropping down to the LVC much faster. that's interesting, so even though I won't be using all of the 80amps that a 4p pack wold put out it would still give me less sag. I have been experimenting with a 29e 48v11ah pack and it sags only after riding it for a little while. It would be nice to have a pack that kept those higher voltages for longer. So just to confirm... Are you saying that cells with a higher max discharge rate will hold higher voltages for longer than a cell with a lower max discharge rating? I think you have already stated this in your comment below, but it's so profound that I just want to be sure...

I've ordered some samsung 25r cells and I'm trying to figure out the best application/configuration for them since I won't be using more than a 30a max controller any time soon. I want at lease 52v15ah (14s6p). But would a 30a continuous 80a peak discharge BMS be enough? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/51-8V-30A-BMS-14S-PCM-Lithium-ion-Battery-Management-System/1342816874.html
Just wondering because 6 of these cells in parallel could put out 100a, so my guess is that with a 25-30a controller there will be a lot of current that I won't be using.

anyway,
thanks hillhater
 
NCR18650PF vs INR18650-25R

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=498&akku2=490&akku3=&akku4=&akku5=&akku6=&a=5

and

HG2 vs MJ1 vs. PF vs. 25R vs 30Q vs PF vs 35E

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=592&akku2=608&akku3=498&akku4=490&akku5=586&akku6=577&a=5

Keep in mind that you only see the 1cst cycle. Imho large capacity cells age more quickly than the more conservative ones... Batteries are made out of compromises.

In NiMh AA world the "only 2000mAh" Sanyo Eneloop is still the best alround cell...
 
It's stored energy not current. A high c-rate should work better for longer. Longer life less stress, less sag. Lot.of people use that bms and should work. There a guy having problems with it charging here in the battery section. So follow and read on. Plus read.
Use a gasket on the positive end.
 
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