Panasonic 18650PF vs. Samsung 25R

[Punx0r]

The Samsung 25R has been around for a while so I feel there ought to be a superior replacement by now, but one doesn't jump out. The HG2 looks promising, but if you want 20-30A, it looks like not much comes close to the old 25R (apart from the equally old and more expensive Sony VTC5).

 

[atomek1000]

If you are looking for best performance etc go for sanyo GA 3500mah .
Best capacity and fairly good discharge current.
If you are considering only PF and 25R i would go for 25R. They are higher current and will perform good. pf's will get very warm at constant( with that motor it is very much likely to happen) currents above 6A per cell.
14s4p will be better for 48v controller because it will not hit LVC that fast.

 

[LikeToRideMyBike]

Thanks guys... I went with the 25r. I'll just put an extra row or two in parallel to make up for the low ah. In the end 25r's won the day. I'm happy with that choice. Thanks everyone for all your help. I've learned a lot. Still learning

 

[LikeToRideMyBike]

After making my 52 volt 10 amp hour pack with Samsung 25r's, I'm really pleased with how far it will take me. On average I'm going 15 to 20 miles on pedal assist level 3 with a BBS02 and also using throttle liberally at times, but still not completely draining the battery down all the way. Though I am feeling the low voltage nominal at about 15 miles. Also, I'm please that no matter how hard I push these cells, they never heat up. I would prefer the Sanyo GA's. My next pack with consist of cells more like these.

The extra 1.5 amp hours of range I would get from a PF pack in a 4p configuration is probably not that noticeable. I also wonder if the extra heat buildup in the PF pack would reduce the range of the PF pack. And the heat will most definitely reduce the lifespan of the PF pack. With all that taken into consideration I think the 25r's are the best choice despite the higher price. I'm really happy with my pack. I can push it hard on a hot day in a triangle bag with no worries of heat. That's worth the extra money to me. 8)

 

[999zip999]

Range can be dealt with style of riding. Or just peddle a little more and soft starts.

 

[LikeToRideMyBike]

Range can be dealt with style of riding. Or just peddle a little more and soft starts.

You're right... I've been going slower on longer rides, pedaling more. Using pedal assist more instead of throttle. Gearing really helps... Always being sure to run the motor at high RPM's seems to save battery life.

 

[DVDRW]

18650PF is good for oversizing pack like Tesla did.
PF gets lukewarm @0,7C

 

[LikeToRideMyBike]

18650PF is good for oversizing pack like Tesla did.
PF gets lukewarm @0,7C

Gottcha. That makes sense. Not good for a 4p pack at 25 amps. My friends pack, which is I made, that is a 14s4p pack made of PF cells gets a little warm when riding hard. Opps... But my pack of the same configuration with Samsung 25r's is perfect. I was trying to make him a budget pack, but it turns out that mine will probably be cheaper in the long run. 25r's are definitely worth the extra cost.

Luna cycles makes a dolphin pack made of 14s4p PF's and B's. The 18650B packs are rubbish. They heat up SOOO much when using pushing hard. I was very disappointed.

 

[Wheazel]

18650PF is good for oversizing pack like Tesla did.
PF gets lukewarm @0,7C

Gottcha. That makes sense. Not good for a 4p pack at 25 amps. My friends pack, which is I made, that is a 14s4p pack made of PF cells gets a little warm when riding hard. Opps... But my pack of the same configuration with Samsung 25r's is perfect. I was trying to make him a budget pack, but it turns out that mine will probably be cheaper in the long run. 25r's are definitely worth the extra cost.

Luna cycles makes a dolphin pack made of 14s4p PF's and B's. The 18650B packs are rubbish. They heat up SOOO much when using pushing hard. I was very disappointed.

All batteries are rubbish when pushed much harder than they were engineered for. A 25R is rubbish at 100amps.
I have two fairly large packs of LG D1´s which I think are just as sensitive as the B's, but they never get warm. For the simple reason they never see higher currents than they were engineered for.

Saying that B and PF packs are rubbish, is like saying a 500W motor is rubbish because it heats up so much when pushing 2kW.

 

[Scottydog]

Saying that B and PF packs are rubbish, is like saying a 500W motor is rubbish because it heats up so much when pushing 2kW.

I'd agree with that!!

 

[Wakkabu]

Also check LG HG 2, another good 3.0Ahr cell with high current discharge.
And you may find this useful...https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=70147

Wow, so the 35E look like a great cell. An improvement upon the 29E.

I have a 13s4p pack of 35E. volt Sag is bad with a BBS02 full throttle. I have enough cells for 9P so I'm going to do that.
Will be a bit more weight but I'll throw it in the triangle anyway so won't be too bad.

The power is in the cell. I'm amazed at how well it runs when it is between 3'5 and 3.15. But the sag means that you lose quite a lot of capacity.
I going to combat that sag by placing more in parallel. With a pack that big and low c draw It'll be a tiny bit better than the GA cell regarding capacity.

 

[LikeToRideMyBike]

Yeah, mine is 14s4p and it takes a little while to sag with the 25r's. I guess what I meant in the earlier comment was that in this configuration the 25r's are superior than the PF's and the B's. I've seen all 3 cell types in action in this configuration, and the PF's and B's just heat up way too much. The B's get really hot!

 

[Cephalotus]

I also wonder if the extra heat buildup in the PF pack would reduce the range of the PF pack.

No. Heat improves(!) performance of cells (reduction of Ri) but heat also reduces cell life, this is why you want to avoid to much heat.

Who says that NCR18650PF will heat up significantly? What's your average(!) load per cell?

 

[LikeToRideMyBike]

I didn't realize heat improved performance. I did know that heat reduced the lifespan of the pack. The PF's don't heat up significantly, just the B's.