Crystalyte 408 magnets - how to secure?

The history:
My Crystalyte 408R motor started to make a "squeak squeak" about a week ago so last weekend I replaced the bearings, but to no avail. The squeaking continued. When the motor was apart for the bearing replacement, I found that I could not remove the stator due to the magnetic forces holding it in and assumed that this is normal. There was a small amount of debris on the edge of some of the magnets that looked like the varnish that the coils are dipped in. I assumed at the time that this occurred due to the poling that happens during the side cover removal. In the meantime thinking that it must be the nylon washer at the wire entry rubbing on the sidecover, I decided to get some dry-lube for it.

Last night coming home the nature of the squeak changed to a "squea-clack" sound. Damn! It must be a loose magnet.
So, it looks like I need to remove the stator and re-secure at least one magnet.
I'm wondering if there is any special trick for removing the stator and need to know what sort of glue that I should use for re-securing any loose magnets?

Make sure you don't mix up the orientation of any loose magnets if you flip them or rearange them the motor will run extremely hot as it fights the magnets that are wrong. So mark em with a sharpie before getting them off the motor.

Any good slow setting epoxy will work. I think it was Reid that was saying the slower the set the higher the temp it melts at. I like PC7 or PC11 myself. It's very thick and gooey, so you need a lot of pressure to get em seated down. I think any good epoxy would work, just don't use the 5 minuite set stuff.

You might want to put a thermometor sensor in there while you have it open. I think most loose magnets are caused by a hot motor. Epoxy will go liquid again when it gets hot enough. I used a Bell brand clock and inside outside thermometer from the car section of the store that cost 10 bucks, and reads to 160 F. I took the thermosensor and epoxied it to the inside of the motor behind the magnets. Now I know if the motor is above 160F and can back off at that time.

Thanks dogman,
After getting the stator out I find that the magnets look quite secure. There's no sign of movement on them that I can see. There's also no sign of any bare metal rubbing to be seen. There was some smeared waxy stuff that the windings are held in on both the magnets and stator. Do you think that this would be sufficient to make the noise?

I dunno, when I had my problems it was clearly loose magnets. It wouldn't take much contact to make a chirp or squeak, but there should be some kind of rub mark on the culprit.

The waxy finish is normal, leave it there ( don't wipe off !! wards off rust :wink: )

A misfiring motor, like what happens with a damaged Hall sensor, can sound pretty rough and kinda like a loose magnet in a way.. look for physical damage on the surface of the hall sensors embedded in the epoxy, testing the buggers is a bit involved but would be the next step i think...

Worth mention as it was the problem on someone on the Yahoo groups a week ago , If you motor/controller has Anderson powerpoles for the phase wires, make sure the pins have not receeded into the housings, or that when the wire is bent over and zip tied to the frame that it's not pulling one of the 3 pins out of place making the controller fire only on 2 phases ( sounds really rough when it happens.. shudders and studders.. )

That's some good info on the phase wires and possible faulty Anderson connectors Ypedal.

But ElectricEd's problem was about a "squeak-squeak" sound that developed. It really doesn't sound like phase wire problems. I have he same problem with my new 406 motor. It really annoying at lower speeds and somewhat fades away at higher speeds (above 12mph). I took the motor apart and repacked the bearings with good quality lithium grease but the squeak persisted so it's not coming from the bearings.

It's coming from the white plastic teflon washer/spacer between the axle and the side cover (where he wires exit the motor). I pulled the washer/spacer out and the squeak stopped. I spread a light coat of lithium grease on it and put it back in. The squeak stopped, I installed the wheel back on the bike and went for a ride. Thirty minutes later the squeak was back.

I plan to take it out again and this time I'll shave off (using my dremel) a slight amount of material about it's diameter where it looks like it's contacting the side cover.

Looks like a new part Crystalyte added (along with it's new side cover with brake disc mounts) because I don't have that on my 408 motor. It's function looks to be to allow the wires to come out perpendicular to the axle and keep em away from the bike frame.

sacman wrote:
It's coming from the white plastic teflon washer/spacer between the axle and the side cover (where he wires exit the motor). I pulled the washer/spacer out and the squeak stopped. I spread a light coat of lithium grease on it and put it back in. The squeak stopped, I installed the wheel back on the bike and went for a ride. Thirty minutes later the squeak was back.

Click to expand...

I tried squirting some Drylube in a can and later on RP7 on the nylon washer and it's interface with the sidecover thinking that if that's the problem, it should change the nature of the squeak. It didn't. Maybe Drylube or RP7 are the wrong type of lubricants?
I have the motor apart at the moment and have not removed all of the waxy stuff. Only the bits that looked a bit thicker and smeared. Thanks for the note on that Ypedal.
I'll make sure that there is no debris anywhere and bung it back together tonight when I get home. :|

squeek vs knock lol.... the noises a hub motor can make ..

I've had the " Squeek " problem related to a rim seam, the torque of the motor with un-even spoke tension made the rim flex and the seam squeaks... ( JB weld and ALOT of rim tape helped that problem lol ) .

From 2006 .. check at the 1:25 mark, hard to hear with all the traffic but squeek.. squeek..

[googlevid]6900357795114403887[/googlevid]

on a couple of motors i found that the rebate cut into the sidecover for the bearing was just slightly oversize. i know that these are only a slip fit, but it was a little to much of a slip fit.

this allowed the motor to wobble just a little bit on the axle. not bad when the wheel was in the air but as soon as the weight of the bike was on it the squeak would show up.

i fixed it by glueing the bearing in place with some Lock-Tite.

rick

Rick wrote:
i fixed it by glueing the bearing in place with some Lock-Tite

Click to expand...

Good idea!
I've checked the bearing fit, the threaded side cover is about 0.003" over size. This allows a slip fit but not enough to wobble. My squeak only occurs under load too.
I got the motor back together last night but it was too cold and wet to venture out. What a wooz!

Interesting side issue: One screw hole in the cluster side had a damaged thread that only started after 3mm, so I drilled it out to put in an M4 helicoil. The swarf was not aluminium and stuck to the magnets! It was a real bugger to remove the swarf. Whats going on here? The hub looks like aluminium to me. Is there a steel insert for the holes or are they already helicoiled?

Mine has squeaked several times over the years.
Usualy one squeek per revolution.
Every time it turned out to be a spoke issue.
Yesterday I spent the first 2 hours of my day curing a squeak from my last long ride. It was some spokes that had stretched a little in the last 500 miles.
This time was a little diffrent. the trouble was only the leading side spokes on the left side of the wheel. I have a heavy dish on my older style Clyte.

Drunkskunk said:

Mine has squeaked several times over the years.
Usualy one squeek per revolution.
Every time it turned out to be a spoke issue.
Yesterday I spent the first 2 hours of my day curing a squeak from my last long ride. It was some spokes that had stretched a little in the last 500 miles.
This time was a little diffrent. the trouble was only the leading side spokes on the left side of the wheel. I have a heavy dish on my older style Clyte.

Click to expand...

Woo Hoo! You were right on with your analysis Mr Drunkskunk. 8) Thank you.
The ride was getting quite lumpy even though the spokes had been adjusted several times. The old setup kept clicking until a spoke broke. I have just rebuilt the wheel using 180mm 14G DT spokes on a Velocity Cliffhanger rim which is a semi-deep V. Thinking that the old tyre was looking a bit ordinary, added a new Shwalbe Marathon plus tyre and a Weldtite SureRide tyre protector for that "belts and braces" thing.

I must add that the Velocity rim is the truest rim that I have ever built. The join has no (get that? NO) irregularity and it only took 5 passes to get within +-.004" radially and laterally using a dial guage. I have built heaps of Mavics, a few Suns and any number of Hoo Flung Dung rims. Never before have I had a rim so true straight out of the box.

It now rides as smoooth as silk with no clicking.