AVIAN featherweight mid drive
AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Couple of years back I visited Japan. That trip was mostly about something called 88 Temples Pilgrimage.
Most of people on that pilgrimage are Japanese and majority do the 1400km loop around the Island of Shikoku by foot.
I decided to do it by bike. It was not easy because Japan is mountainous. Double digit gradient roads are very common and some of them are inside of long tunnels. On that trip I met James, a dude from Australia, who suggested to look at the e-bike option.
After coming back to the U.S. I found ES forum, and, after months of educating myself, I decided to build my own e-bike so I can take it with me to Japan and other places in the world. This thread is about that build. I named my build AVIAN because I would like to be able to take this bike on the plane in its own case, my goal is to keep it under 55lb. including the case. My second goal is to have a very light, single track e-bike.
I made some progress that I would like to share with you.
The build is based on a 2009 Giant Trance X0, Alien RC motor and VESC controller. It is not finished, but is getting there.
Most of people on that pilgrimage are Japanese and majority do the 1400km loop around the Island of Shikoku by foot.
I decided to do it by bike. It was not easy because Japan is mountainous. Double digit gradient roads are very common and some of them are inside of long tunnels. On that trip I met James, a dude from Australia, who suggested to look at the e-bike option.
After coming back to the U.S. I found ES forum, and, after months of educating myself, I decided to build my own e-bike so I can take it with me to Japan and other places in the world. This thread is about that build. I named my build AVIAN because I would like to be able to take this bike on the plane in its own case, my goal is to keep it under 55lb. including the case. My second goal is to have a very light, single track e-bike.
I made some progress that I would like to share with you.
The build is based on a 2009 Giant Trance X0, Alien RC motor and VESC controller. It is not finished, but is getting there.
- Attachments
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- AVIAN 1
- AVIAN 1.JPG (157.08 KiB) Viewed 10116 times
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- AVIAN 2
- AVIAN 2.JPG (139.16 KiB) Viewed 10116 times
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- AVIAN 3
- AVIAN 3.JPG (161.31 KiB) Viewed 10116 times
Last edited by Ecyclist on Sep 08 2017 10:50am, edited 1 time in total.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Neat mounting. Looks good.
Small motor, how much power?
Battery is alway a problem when you plan to fly (double meaning)
What are your plans?
Small motor, how much power?
Battery is alway a problem when you plan to fly (double meaning)

What are your plans?
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Thanks.MadRhino wrote:Neat mounting. Looks good.
Small motor, how much power?
Battery is alway a problem when you plan to fly (double meaning)![]()
What are your plans?
It is a 3200W motor but I'm not going to push it over 2400W. BTW I can install up to 8072 6000W motor to that reducer and pull that bike apart. Just don't feel like doing it yet. 500/14 Rohloff might not like it either.
I already designed solder/spot welder free case and am planning on buying 18650 cells at destination or ship cells by sea and pop them in.
- Attachments
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- Battery pack 1.JPG (143.02 KiB) Viewed 10084 times
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- Hex cell 2.jpg (83.94 KiB) Viewed 10084 times
Last edited by Ecyclist on Dec 29 2017 11:43pm, edited 2 times in total.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Beautiful build!
Really nice work with the battery setup!
I'm guessing you have access to a mill ?
Really nice work with the battery setup!
I'm guessing you have access to a mill ?

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
And then some.12-C wrote:Beautiful build!
Really nice work with the battery setup!
I'm guessing you have access to a mill ?

Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Cool battery pack!
Are the holders/connectors made of aluminum? If so what about oxidation? Aluminum oxide is a insulator. I guess you could sand before assembly and hope it stays air tight...
Maybe you know this and they are nickel plated copper?
Are the holders/connectors made of aluminum? If so what about oxidation? Aluminum oxide is a insulator. I guess you could sand before assembly and hope it stays air tight...
Maybe you know this and they are nickel plated copper?

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Wow, just freakin wow.....
Trek 4300 w/ H3580 Crystalyte at 3600W
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82738
Dyno Moto 7 BMX Cruiser w/BBS02
viewtopic.php?f=6&p=1467001#p1467001
GT Palomar Vintage hardtail w/BBS02
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=104255
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82738
Dyno Moto 7 BMX Cruiser w/BBS02
viewtopic.php?f=6&p=1467001#p1467001
GT Palomar Vintage hardtail w/BBS02
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=104255
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- Posts: 2075
- Joined: Oct 06 2012 4:45pm
- Location: SF Bay Area
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Great Work,
I have had the same Idea for about a year or so now, I just do not have the Machine Shop to do this myself.
( I Bought a Frame a year ago but just got around to building it up, since I finally see some improvements in regards to DIY Mid-Drives )
I have been wondering how to use a RC motor with a Infineon or Infineon Clone Controller, so as to use a Cycle Analyst to do easy Voltage and Amperage Limit's .
Would that motor work with an Infineon controller ?
What is the KV of the Motor ?
Are you going to be operating it with 5s pack or 10s pack, ... or is that a 6s x 10p Pack ?
I have had the same Idea for about a year or so now, I just do not have the Machine Shop to do this myself.
( I Bought a Frame a year ago but just got around to building it up, since I finally see some improvements in regards to DIY Mid-Drives )
I have been wondering how to use a RC motor with a Infineon or Infineon Clone Controller, so as to use a Cycle Analyst to do easy Voltage and Amperage Limit's .
Would that motor work with an Infineon controller ?
What is the KV of the Motor ?
Are you going to be operating it with 5s pack or 10s pack, ... or is that a 6s x 10p Pack ?
My first conversion ... Sold
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497
It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497
It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Wow, amazing work. Your battery construction deserves its own thread. Interested to see how you mount the pack. Any lessons or thoughts about your battery design? Would you change a future iteration? cheers
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Thanks!flathill wrote:Cool battery pack!
Are the holders/connectors made of aluminum? If so what about oxidation? Aluminum oxide is a insulator. I guess you could sand before assembly and hope it stays air tight...
Maybe you know this and they are nickel plated copper?
Yeah, these are aluminum and earmarked for electroless nickel plating.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Thanks dude. You made my day.Wolfeman wrote:Wow, just freakin wow.....
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
I recommend VESC or RC controller for a RC motor.ScooterMan101 wrote:Great Work,
I have had the same Idea for about a year or so now, I just do not have the Machine Shop to do this myself.
( I Bought a Frame a year ago but just got around to building it up, since I finally see some improvements in regards to DIY Mid-Drives )
I have been wondering how to use a RC motor with a Infineon or Infineon Clone Controller, so as to use a Cycle Analyst to do easy Voltage and Amperage Limit's .
Would that motor work with an Infineon controller ?
What is the KV of the Motor ?
Are you going to be operating it with 5s pack or 10s pack, ... or is that a 6s x 10p Pack ?
The motor is 125Kv.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Thank you.Rube wrote:Wow, amazing work. Your battery construction deserves its own thread. Interested to see how you mount the pack. Any lessons or thoughts about your battery design? Would you change a future iteration? cheers
You need to be really careful with these cells. Steady hands or welding goggles are at premium.


This is my third rev. and I think that for 6P it will work OK.
After I install it on the bike and put it through real life situations I will be able to tell more.
For now I only used it for testing the motor with my transmission on a fluid exercycle.
I will build more compact 4P for single tracking and short range.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
- cal3thousand 1.21 GW
- Posts: 3607
- Joined: Mar 26 2012 4:47pm
- Location: California
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Umm... I'm really glad that I clicked your link. Wasn't sure what to think based on the name and TOTALLY did not expect to see that battery setup.
I would absolutely love to hear anything you would care to share about the construction, design and manufacture of that beauty.
Seems like you may have also designed your own motor mounting as I have never seen one of those on offer before.
Subscribed in the hopes of learning more about your creations!
I would absolutely love to hear anything you would care to share about the construction, design and manufacture of that beauty.
Seems like you may have also designed your own motor mounting as I have never seen one of those on offer before.
Subscribed in the hopes of learning more about your creations!
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.
Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.
Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
I'm glad you did.cal3thousand wrote:Umm... I'm really glad that I clicked your link. Wasn't sure what to think based on the name and TOTALLY did not expect to see that battery setup.
I would absolutely love to hear anything you would care to share about the construction, design and manufacture of that beauty.
Seems like you may have also designed your own motor mounting as I have never seen one of those on offer before.
Subscribed in the hopes of learning more about your creations!
It would be very hard for me to write about everything I build. I doesn't look like much, but just the transmission was a big project in itself. So if you have a specific question, just shoot it my way and I will do my best to answer.
You are correct about the motor mount. Giant bikes have goofy rear shock linkage so I had to come up with something that works. That was the price I was willing to pay in order to have ample space in a triangle of the bike. I can fit everything in that space. These brackets are very short. Short mount makes for a very rigid structure.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
-
- Posts: 2075
- Joined: Oct 06 2012 4:45pm
- Location: SF Bay Area
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Is that regular bicycle chainring on the outside of the crank that has the chain to the motor ?
Regular bicycle sprocket on the motor ?
8 or 9 speed chain/chainrings and sprocket up front ?
Regular bicycle sprocket on the motor ?
8 or 9 speed chain/chainrings and sprocket up front ?
My first conversion ... Sold
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497
It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497
It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
No, these are BMX 7075 aluminum chainrings. Both are 104 BC. The outside is 42T and inside 44T. The transmission is running 20T right-hand EXCESS freewheel with backing plate.ScooterMan101 wrote:Is that regular bicycle chainring on the outside of the crank that has the chain to the motor ?
Regular bicycle sprocket on the motor ?
8 or 9 speed chain/chainrings and sprocket up front ?
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Wow, amazing. subscribed
It looks like bobc's lazer cut cycloidal gearbox. I need this type of gearbox. Compact and simple.
But I think there is a problem of protecting the motor from water or mud.
It looks like bobc's lazer cut cycloidal gearbox. I need this type of gearbox. Compact and simple.
But I think there is a problem of protecting the motor from water or mud.
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Wow this looks very good. Are you going to sell those gearboxes? How much does that gearbox weight?
Canyon Torque DHX + Cyc X1 Pro
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
I'm also very interested in the gearbox. Could you show some more details of the internals? Is it something I could duplicate (I also have a cnc).
thank you
thank you
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Subscribing to see if you'll share more on the internals of the gearbox as well. Great little machine!
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
I designed and built the hypocycloidal transmission based on three different Sumitomo transmissions that I bought and studied. Sumitomo makes industrial type of transmissions, which are not restricted in size and shape. I had to rethink the whole thing for the bike use.
@SlowCo Next week I will have some free time and I will take the transmission off the bike, weigh it and take a couple of photos.
Below, I posted a photo of the first revision of my transmission. The one on the bike is rev.3.
@Rouckie You will need CADCAM and second software to design cycloidal shape. From what I understand, you can use Solidworks for everything but it is very expensive.
@sephespid If you cut cycloidal shape with laser, you will get a rattle box. Sumitomo uses profile grinders to get a perfect shape. CNC milling is barely acceptable. I'm not worried about the motor too much. E-sk8s have these motors mounted couple of inches off the ground and can live with that. Worst case scenario, I will swap it with Astro Fight inrunner. No problem.
@anttipaa At this point my focus is on building mid power super light e-bike for myself, but I might make a short run of 10 to 20 units once I get positive singnals from the community. The time will tell.
@SlowCo Next week I will have some free time and I will take the transmission off the bike, weigh it and take a couple of photos.
Below, I posted a photo of the first revision of my transmission. The one on the bike is rev.3.
@Rouckie You will need CADCAM and second software to design cycloidal shape. From what I understand, you can use Solidworks for everything but it is very expensive.
@sephespid If you cut cycloidal shape with laser, you will get a rattle box. Sumitomo uses profile grinders to get a perfect shape. CNC milling is barely acceptable. I'm not worried about the motor too much. E-sk8s have these motors mounted couple of inches off the ground and can live with that. Worst case scenario, I will swap it with Astro Fight inrunner. No problem.
@anttipaa At this point my focus is on building mid power super light e-bike for myself, but I might make a short run of 10 to 20 units once I get positive singnals from the community. The time will tell.
- Attachments
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- Hypocycloidal transmission rev.1
- Trany 1.JPG (135.58 KiB) Viewed 9604 times
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Crazy stuff.
Great thread.
Great thread.
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
Brilliant work!!!
Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive
That is cool as hell. Too bad it's a one-off.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama
My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.
My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.