PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

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Powervelocity.com   10 kW

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PV NextGen FOC 130v 200/600A 25kw - $599, Watch Display

Post by Powervelocity.com » Apr 11 2019 9:13pm

Updated 10/1/2020:

NextGen controller gets a new body making is even smaller and lighter:
new_shell_1.jpg
new_shell_1.jpg (83.17 KiB) Viewed 416 times
new_shell_2.jpg
new_shell_2.jpg (260.76 KiB) Viewed 416 times
new_shell_3.jpg
new_shell_3.jpg (101.03 KiB) Viewed 416 times



Updated 6/11/2020:

Currently testing the latest design and starting to ship first batch of preorders.


Updated 1/8/2020:
- Charger mode via motor stator added as a standard feature on all controllers via software update:
- Charging voltage can be any DC source from 12v up to the target voltage of the battery (not above it). Higher voltages will provide better charge efficiency;
- Supported charging voltages up to 130v and currents up to 30A at this time, so we are taking about some 4kw. It can possibly be unlocked for 2x the current later on. Pending tests.

Updated 12/29/2019:
- Latest Specs: voltages, currents, design improvements, charger mode support, Apple Watch support, and much more etc.
- Preorder here

OK, it's about time to unveil what has been brewing in the PowerVelocity design studio for the last few months.

Yes, it is a brand new controller that we designed from the ground up drawing from experience and learning curve while improving Infineon/Xie Chang controllers over the last few years (see the signature line below). Those have been great success but we don't want to stop there. Now that prototypes have been tested and getting ready to move into production series, its time to talk some specs.

This model is targeting the most popular segment of ebike frames, well, at least here on the ES.
Think Stealth, Culbix, eEnduro and such. So the power levels are adjusted to get max performance from these setups.

Hardware
- Support up to 30S battery packs (130v). Power component rated up to 150v, so, higher voltages can be unlocked via software but keeping it conservative for now;
- 200A max battery peak discharge and 150A continuous. More possible in future versions;
- Mosfets rated up to support 676A peak phase current. Tested up to 400A so far;
- 24F SMT/legless mosfets mounted on a metal core substrate PCB with direct thermal interface to the heatsink enclosure. This removes the 70A limit present in TO-220 that has been widely used in ebike controllers and provides probably the best cooling possible in fanless/non-liquid cooled designs;
- Control circuits are fully isolated from the power stage for best transient immunity (yes, that's why those voltages and currents are possible);
- Precise torque control and best efficiency due to three phase current measurement architecture. Most controllers on the market today use a single shunt design to save on parts and production costs;
- The best components used for critical systems such as the gate drivers and voltage sensors;
- Support of a wide variety of motors including low inductance, IPM, DC, you name it. We are yet to find out which motor it will not support;
- Easy one button auto discovery of motor parameters, hall and phase connection sequence (no need to match);
- FOC, BLDC, DC, sensored, sensorless, hybrid, etc all modes supported;
- up to 100,000 eRPM in this first iteration, possibly more in future models;
- Compact design: made to fit 18F Infeneon controller enclosure (as shown in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75888), only in black anodized finish. Custom-designed case may be a possibility in the future;
- Current throttle control, variable regen, and all those other goodies many of you have been long asking for;
-Mappable throttle voltages for precise control (dead band elimination);
- Temperature monitoring for controller and input for motor temperature, NTC, PTC probes supported;
- Obviously, configurable power limits with dynamic/soft power rollbacks based on state of charge, temperatures, RPM;
- Protections against overvoltage, overcurrent, overspin, overtemperature, and many other overs;
- Many more features, in fact, too many to list (will be added later)

Firmware
Running a customized version of the brilliant open source code from magician Benjamin Vedder (VESC), all credits for the firmware go to the wizard.

Integration
Integration with PowerVelocity Bluetooth module and Android/iOS app (viewtopic.php?f=31&t=89847) for easy set up. Keyless start, speed, RPM, power consumption, temperatures, etc. via smartphone HUD , etc.
- Apple Watch support (HUD for now but more will be added soon)

Options/Future Features
The controller is designed to be plug and play with many features to be added via software updates (no additional hardware required). For example, charger mode will be added in the next few weeks to allow charging batteries from any DC source lower than the batt nominal voltage using the motor windings as inductor (DC booster mode)

Price and Timeline
The preorder/early bird price is $499. Chances are the price will be going slightly up as new hardware is the new features ar being added.

The first batch of controllers is scheduled to go out to customers in January 2020. Only pre-orders will be shipped for now. The wait time for all new orders is approx. one month. This will get better as we ramp up the production.

Future plans
Adding lower and higher voltage versions such as 100v, 200v (maybe), and moto version 50kw. This is all TBD.

Pictures
Coming soon

Videos

Sneak peek of the production version:

Last edited by Powervelocity.com on Oct 01 2020 9:19pm, edited 23 times in total.



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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Merlin » Apr 12 2019 5:50am

sounds good. but these times with fiel weakening i would prefer lower pack voltage and higher amps.
with our big bikes 200a is something like "default" for me.
i think the 100v fets have less iR and take more amps.
a Display should also included. hassling around with mods and shunts sucks and is a bit oldschool :D

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Apr 12 2019 7:19am

Field weakening takes away from efficiencies. There is a reason high power vehicles run higher voltages.

This is not to say 100v or even 60v mosfets can’t be put in.

Not sure what kind of hassling with shunts you have in mind. There are no shunts involved here. Only high precision current sensors. I guess I forgot to mention that. It is shuntless.

No on display. That’s too old school.

Merlin wrote:
Apr 12 2019 5:50am
sounds good. but these times with fiel weakening i would prefer lower pack voltage and higher amps.
with our big bikes 200a is something like "default" for me.
i think the 100v fets have less iR and take more amps.
a Display should also included. hassling around with mods and shunts sucks and is a bit oldschool :D

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Merlin » Apr 12 2019 3:25pm

efficiency? ya right. bikers aerodanymics are that bad at speeds where flux comes in.
everything above 35/40kph eats your efficiency ....riding 60-80kph you need to carry 3kw+ battery to catch 40-50km range.

the reason for high voltage is just quick charging and lower current, smaller wires.
no display? old school? should i install a bicycle computer to see my range or install battery beepers? or did i missunderstand what you mean with no display.

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MJSfoto1956   100 kW

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Apr 13 2019 3:45pm

Man, this sounds great. Can't wait to see it in person!
Based on my experience with your previous controller design, this is going to be awesome.

M
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Apr 14 2019 10:53am

Any photos of what the connectors will look like?
(hopefully waterproof-ready)

M
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Apr 16 2019 7:44pm

Will likely be something simple like XT150 for phases and xt90 for the battery. Not yet decided on signal connectors. Any suggestions?
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Apr 14 2019 10:53am
Any photos of what the connectors will look like?
(hopefully waterproof-ready)

M

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Apr 16 2019 8:47pm

Powervelocity.com wrote:
Apr 16 2019 7:44pm
Will likely be something simple like XT150 for phases and xt90 for the battery. Not yet decided on signal connectors. Any suggestions?
I prefer Anderson SB series which have robust options for waterproofing as well as color-coding to prevent mix-ups with charging/discharging. Trouble for eBikes is that Anderson's are bigger than XT's, which would likely be a big turn off for many eBikers. Might be nice to offer an option between the two.

As for signal connectors something like one or two multi-pin (e.g. 6-pin, 8-pin, 12-pin) Deutsch or AMP connectors would do the trick. I would avoid having a single connector per function -- as long as everything is well documented as to which pin is which. Also, be sure to leave spare pins empty for future functionality.

M
Last edited by MJSfoto1956 on Apr 17 2019 10:57am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by district9prawn » Apr 17 2019 12:39am

I'm sure the controllers will be great.

Make sure to include the SWD port and the third unused adc pin in the connectors.
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by SlowCo » Apr 17 2019 7:49am

This sounds good!
Going to follow this thread and hope to see some photo's and builds soon.

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by atarijedi » Apr 19 2019 7:46pm

Are you taking possible feature requests?

There is a feature on the Mobipus controllers that I'd like to see on a PV controller. It's called Auto FOC I believe. AFAIK, it works like this, as soon as you hit a certain speed (as programmed into the controller), it will automatically enable FOC so you can go faster. Like a turbo kicking in once you've hit a certain rpm. If you already have FOC programmed into the controller, as well as the ability to determine the speed or RPM, than it shouldn't be that difficult to add this feature.

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 19 2019 8:36pm

Powervelocity.com wrote:
Apr 12 2019 7:19am
Field weakening takes away from efficiencies. There is a reason high power vehicles run higher voltages.

This is not to say 100v or even 60v mosfets can’t be put in.

Not sure what kind of hassling with shunts you have in mind. There are no shunts involved here. Only high precision current sensors. I guess I forgot to mention that. It is shuntless.

No on display. That’s too old school.

Merlin wrote:
Apr 12 2019 5:50am
sounds good. but these times with fiel weakening i would prefer lower pack voltage and higher amps.
with our big bikes 200a is something like "default" for me.
i think the 100v fets have less iR and take more amps.
a Display should also included. hassling around with mods and shunts sucks and is a bit oldschool :D
A setup with 100V mosfets would be really attractive to me.

Also, remember field weakening is only a rough efficiency hit for some motors. Many motors can extend the useful vehicle speed range by +30-70% in exchange for only eating 1-2% efficiency hit (or less for motors like Nissan LEAF).
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by district9prawn » Apr 21 2019 3:05am

Would it be possible to have the bluetooth soldered to the pcb? Some IO has been set aside in recent firmware for a permanently attached NRF chip. This would leave RX and TX ports free for other uses such cruise control and profile switching.
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by coolbobjoe » Apr 22 2019 12:00pm

Where can I send preorder payment?

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Apr 22 2019 5:23pm

The controllers has a built-in BT that will allow updates and communication with the phone for dashboard and other things.
It may end up soldered to the main PCB or will be a plugin module. It doesn't affect the connections though. In both cases, it will have a separate UART for external use.
district9prawn wrote:
Apr 21 2019 3:05am
Would it be possible to have the bluetooth soldered to the pcb? Some IO has been set aside in recent firmware for a permanently attached NRF chip. This would leave RX and TX ports free for other uses such cruise control and profile switching.

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by wojtek » Apr 23 2019 3:57am

I would like to pre-order one. Thanks!

Ps Would it be possible to add charging functionality inside the controller? (like in Adaptto)
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by danielrlee » Apr 24 2019 1:22am


Powervelocity.com wrote:No on display. That’s too old school.
That's a shame. A deal breaker even. I much prefer dedicated purpose built hardware as a UI than messing around with smartphones and apps and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Is there any chance you'd ever reconsider this decision in the future?


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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Powervelocity.com » Apr 24 2019 2:52pm

Adding display is easy. However, that adds to the clutter. There is a possibility that a dedicated display will be added down the road, maybe a wireless one, as an option. But it's not a priority at the moment.
danielrlee wrote:
Apr 24 2019 1:22am
Powervelocity.com wrote:No on display. That’s too old school.
That's a shame. A deal breaker even. I much prefer dedicated purpose built hardware as a UI than messing around with smartphones and apps and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Is there any chance you'd ever reconsider this decision in the future?

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Apr 24 2019 8:31pm

Powervelocity.com wrote:
Apr 24 2019 2:52pm
There is a possibility that a dedicated display will be added down the road, maybe a wireless one, as an option. But it's not a priority at the moment.
+1 to smartphone only.
Smartphone is my preference over something that will become out-of-date in just a short while.
In fact, NOT having an iPhone app is a deal-breaker for me as I will never use Android.
And further, I prefer not to pay for the development of a dedicated display as there are so many other cool things that could be invested in instead.

M
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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by Merlin » Apr 24 2019 8:47pm

when you crash and your 600/800$ phone cracks too we can talk about fancy wireless displays.
i prefer at minimum a simpel display option. show me speed, trip, voltage and iam happy.
I dont think basic Display infos get outdated. do you update your cars dashboard? :P
if you want to record more stats, yea why not using BT and your phone for that.
+ riding offroad with your favorite "map" software means switching between whatever you want to see as a display.

if theres a problem selling a cheap 20/30$ display for basics its the decision of the builder....do i want to reach as much ppl as i can or do i want only do and build whats my own perspective of using this controller.

the feedback yet looks like wishes are too oldschool.

if i need 100v above this is maybe the solution. if you are below nuculars 24f have the same price range and nice features like adapttos charge with any PSU your Battery, even without coil.

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by icherouveim » Apr 25 2019 6:35am

Hello,

I don't want to judge the good work you have done so far and your new controller, I just have to say that I agree with merlin 100% for many reasons.

If you are get used with adaptto - nucular controllers AIO system then you will never buy a controller without a screen.

You should be able to monitor cells voltage, all the specs with details and everything thru a standard screen and also to be able to change every setting on the fly without to have to reflash the eeprom thru the phone everytime something changes and then to restart the controller to save the new settings.
Even Chinese cheap controllers come with a screen.
Also there is a reason why all electric vehicles come with a dashboard they never say the driver has to plug a phone in order to be able to check vital information for safety and ride.

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Re: PV NextGen Controller FOC compact 150v 22kw Max - $499

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Apr 26 2019 4:07pm

Merlin wrote:
Apr 24 2019 8:47pm
when you crash and your 600/800$ phone cracks too we can talk about fancy wireless displays.
Last time I looked, iPhone 4s were selling for $25 on eBay. $50 for a 5s. Frankly the complaint is unwarranted given the tremendous ecosystem of used iPhones and iPods out there. And we haven't even talked about the huge inventory of used (i.e. cheap) Android phones. If you are worried about $800 then you are worrying about the wrong thing.

M
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QANON is a sick cult: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... e-1064076/

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