First Build,

Bartas

100 µW
Joined
Jul 26, 2020
Messages
8
Hey guys, been trying to put down my own bike together now for about a month, I been learning a lot and decided to do everything myself instead of buying ready product.

I already have 20S11P battery.
Controller kelly kls 7212s / can be upgraded.
Im intending to buy mxus 3k turbo in 6T but Im open for other suggestions.

The bike I'm using is a hardtail mounting bike in 26inch wheel.

Im looking for decent hill climbing without overheating the motor and range of atleast 80km, Vmax at 40mph or 65kmh
Cruising speed of 20-25mph or 30-40kmh.

All feedback appreciated.
 
3k is a good motor, some claim QS motor to be better.

What size tire are you lacing the hub motor into?
Your speed of 40mph on a rigid would need atleast a front suspension, ideally a full suspension bike because you may hit a pot hole at those speeds. But your cruising speeds should be just fine for rigid frame. I am heavy and no full suspension bike can handle my weight so I ride rigid, but having a front suspension fork is cushiony. Even slightly letting go on a rigid fork, is not enough. A decent suspension fork is recommended. I would look into lacing your wheel into a 24" bicycle rim to get that extra torque.
 
My bike came in with 27.5 wheels so Im already lowering it to 26inch, I dont want the frame to be so low since its a large frame and 24inch would look rather silly on it. I do have front suspension.

Qs motor has same 145mm dropouts as mxus 3k? I dont want wider dropouts.
Looking at 2.4-2.5 tires.

But by any means will a 6T laced in 26inch wheel be good enough for climbing hills ?

Im a pretty light rider only 75kg
 
If you like, you can check out the http://ebikes.ca/simulator , the MXUS you want is listed as the 4506.

(edited, looks like it does have your motor)
 
Your's is an interesting build, I don't know enough to have an opinion, but want to follow your progress.

Please keep us posted on what you do and how it works out.

Here's a link to a 72v hardtail build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aLLVBpU88c
 
Im wondering if I should just go for 3kw mid drive instead? Was looking at cyclone 3000w. I feel like mxus will burn on steep hills?
 
26" wheels is a good choice. Dont forget about torque arms, I just take an angle grinder to some flat 1/4" x 2" steel and try to get a tight fit around the axle flats, then some hose clamps. Seems to me though you care about how you look while riding, so you can buy some fancy looking torque arms here https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/torque-arms.html

You can even use the Trip Simulator here https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/trip-simulator.html to input your route on a map in the pull down menu top left in the current iteration. You can move the route once you get starting and ending point in place. Select the motor and controller and a few other variables, weight, pedal power, wind and you can see the power needed and used for the route.
 
Im planning to do the torque arms myself using thick steel.

Controller with the battery will be inside fiberglass cover that Im gonna make.

Anyway guys my dilemma is about the motor... I have some pretty steep hills around my area. I dont want to burn the motor by going 25-30kmh up those hills, wouldnt a 1500 or 3000kw mid drive be better for such purpose?

Just an example street that I cycle everyday
like 20 or even 30% up
 

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Mid drive would be a better choice, the CycloneTW website has some powerful mid drive motors available. Remember that bicycles arent meant for that kind of power to be put through the drive train. The Cyclone 3kw or 4kw coaxial mid drive motor kits are good, for lower power the BBSHD is better. Be careful though, because some frames wont fit certain mid drive kits. You'd be better off with mid drive, otherwise you'd need to lace a mxus 3kw into a 20" or 22" to get the extra torque.

Taiwan - http://www.cyclone-tw.com/
4kw - http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html


California, USA - https://lunacycle.com/bafang-bbshd-1000w-middrive-kit/ and choose the "Hot Rod Program (For Off Road Use Only)" option,
 
Im looking at QS 2000W 120 72V
https://a.aliexpress.com/_d6M7Zyx

QS 138 3000W 72V
https://a.aliexpress.com/_d6wJIzD

Some other 3000w motor https://m.alibaba.com/product/62562...1346f84baa9370761b5f72c106z.jpg_140x140xz.jpg



Im open to all suggestions as I have no clue about mid drive motors, I've only focused on hub motors previously.

Also is it often for mid drives to break chains etc?

I would like to keep same speeds as mentioned before. And please I really dont want the motor to sound like a washing machine 😅
 
First thing first: how often will you ride those steep cobblestone alleys, and will you have to stop and go while climbing them?

If more than half of your ride is on the flat or close to, and steep climbs are quick and short, you can build with a big DD hub.

If you have to ride steep most of your ride, with stop and start especially, you need a mid drive on the left side.

Both choices would be with a 3000w QS motor ideally, for the speed that you plan. The DD hub would need to be low Kv and 20s battery. The mid drive would need a much more robust drive train than bicycle grade. You will need a high power controller no matter which you build.

Your expected range is long for a bike that will have to spend a lot of power climbing. You will need a big battery made with quality cells.
 
Some simulator stuff to help you out. Some things are guesses, like your battery. You say it's 20s11p, but you do not specify what cells or BMS are used, so no way to do more than guess what it is capable of or it's capacity. So for this purpose I'm assuming 2.5Ah cells, which 11 * 2.5Ah = 27.5Ah; and it probably is capable of at least 2C continous, which would be about 60A.

This uses the 4506 (the motor you specified) with a 72v battery, and a 60A controller, going up a 30% slope with 265lb total (165lb rider and 100lb bike).

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?batt=cust_72_0.2_27&cont=cust_60_120_0.03_V&axis=mph&hp=0&autothrot=false&throt=100&mass=120&grade=30&motor=MX4506&wheel=26i&frame=mountain

That gets you only 11.3mph full throttle up that 30% slope, with Motor Power 1792W, Battery Power 3595W, Batt Amps 59.9A, Batt Volts 60.0V due to voltage sag.

Power Consumption is 318.1 Wh/mi, and with that pack size you only get Range 5.1 miles if you're on those hills exclusively. (which you won't be, but if there's a lot of those hills, it's going to eat your battery).

But before you ever get that far, it'll melt the motor. It'll Overheat In 2.7 minutes of riding on that steep a slope. If you had statorade in it, you get three whole minute total before it overheats. ;) Overheating defined as possible permanent damage, greater than 250 degrees C final temperature. This is becuase the difference between battery watts and motor watts (actually "load watts") is all turned into heat in the battery, controller, but especially the motor. :(


The below is for 20% slope, otherwise all the same.
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?batt=cust_72_0.2_27&cont=cust_60_120_0.03_V&axis=mph&hp=0&autothrot=false&throt=100&mass=120&grade=20&motor=MX4506&wheel=26i&frame=mountain&cont_b=cust_60_120_0.03_V&motor_b=MX4506_Ferro&batt_b=cust_72_0.2_27&mass_b=120&hp_b=0&grade_b=20&add=false&blue=Lbs

That gets you up to 17.7mph, Mtr Power 2054W, Batt Power 3081W, Batt Amps 49.6A, Batt Volts 62.1V (still sags a lot in voltage), power Consumption down to "only" 174.1 Wh/mi, and Range up to 9.6 mi, again assuming only uphills, but the Overheat In 5.0 minutes means you still wont' be able to use even the single charge of the battery before the motor melts. :(


If you're just riding on completely flat roads (which it doesn't look like you even have :lol:) then you'd get this:
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?batt=cust_72_0.2_27&cont=cust_60_120_0.03_V&axis=mph&hp=0&autothrot=false&throt=100&mass=120&grade=0&motor=MX4506&wheel=26i&frame=mountain&cont_b=cust_60_120_0.03_V&motor_b=MX4506_Ferro&batt_b=cust_72_0.2_27&mass_b=120&hp_b=0&grade_b=20&add=false&blue=Lbs

Which gets you up to 29.2mph, using a measly Mtr Power 938W, Batt Power 1072W, Batt Amps 15.6A, Batt Volts 68.9V (not nearly as much sag), and a decentish power Consumption of only 36.7 Wh/mi, which with that size pack gets you up to Range 50 mi and never overheats, at a lowly 66 °C motor temperature.


Your actual conditions, controller, battery, weight, and riding style will change all those results.


Personally, I'd go with a middrive you can shift gears on, which would let you shift down to trade speed for torque to climb the hills, and then shift up to go faster on the flats. It'd still have to be a fairly high power middrive to go up a 30% hill at much more than a crawl, and would probably wear out the sprockets and chains kind of often under those kinds of loads, but it'd take a lot less power and shouldn't melt down. :)
 
This has been very helpful, Thanks for going through everything with me, I will go for mid drive as they seem to be lighter, better fit for my frame and my needs. Ill be driving those narrow alley ways few times a day, so I'm only left with mid drive.

Maybe I'm exaggerating with the steepnes of those streets? But if you ask me, they do seem pretty steep...

For the battery I have samsung 35E cells.

Which mid drive would be best for 30-40kmh cruising speeds? And for 72V battery? And one that doesn't sound like washing machine?
 
You can melt any motor. With the cheap generic controllers, there should be a gadget that you can hook up that will not send power once the motor windings temp hits a certain level. Easiest would be hooking up the throttle to the gadget, and temp sensor from gadget to motor. Otherwise you gotta cut off the phase amps with their big wires. Just been thinking about that lately, because I touched the cover plate of my Leaf 1500W and it wasnt too too hot, but it was hot. I'd say it was like a 4 second deal. I got a cheap generic controller.
 
Bartas said:
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That's just so awesome. Do you know how little of American roads and architecture has such flavor?
 
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