stancecoke
1 MW
See #7731. If I would know the solution, I would be a rich man. I only know, that coal and nuclear is not the solution. You can only cover a constant base load with them, nothing dynamic.
Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear
- Thread starter Hillhater
- Start date
ZeroEm
10 MW
One solution is to lower our demand and make it standard for home to make some or most of the power needs.
Ianhill
1 MW
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2015
- Messages
- 2,921
The biggest battery we could reliably pull energy from is the earths core it can provide geothermal while been regulated by flow rate.
Its very early days in such projects with deep depths but to me logically its the answer to clean energy thats going to have good life span and serviceability no need for battery back ups and masses of hard to obtain metals and such.
But from what i can see in uk is theres large investment in solar thats to big to fail now it simply won't be allowed the corruption is large and when a choice is made there's little going back when money dictates.
Solar generation is going to be the asbestos of the future its useless in reality the amount of over capacity needed is insane makes wind turbines look a good idea and the fact storage is needed just amplifys the cost down the line.
And what do we build battery back ups from ? A cell that was designed for portability ffs face palm it's lazy engineering on one hand we developed nuclear reactors that take best part of a decade to get up an running looking at hinckley point but we also then deaign and install battery backup on same grid thats not really fit for purpose and burst into flames giving munitions for the naysayers to jump on we need an electrical isambard kingdom brunel to grab the reigns of the system and shake its core becuase its lost it ways of grand gesture and delivers little impressive but it's corruption.
Aberthaw coal power station as been payed to be demolished twice by uk tax payer and thats the fix for the situation after that a field of solar will be used on its grid connection when it has all the facilities and grid connections to be a test plant for much higher loads but instead for a few hours a day in summer it might get near its name plate rating, face palm the whole energy department of c02 hating idiots cant even see the cleanest solution plebs.
Its very early days in such projects with deep depths but to me logically its the answer to clean energy thats going to have good life span and serviceability no need for battery back ups and masses of hard to obtain metals and such.
But from what i can see in uk is theres large investment in solar thats to big to fail now it simply won't be allowed the corruption is large and when a choice is made there's little going back when money dictates.
Solar generation is going to be the asbestos of the future its useless in reality the amount of over capacity needed is insane makes wind turbines look a good idea and the fact storage is needed just amplifys the cost down the line.
And what do we build battery back ups from ? A cell that was designed for portability ffs face palm it's lazy engineering on one hand we developed nuclear reactors that take best part of a decade to get up an running looking at hinckley point but we also then deaign and install battery backup on same grid thats not really fit for purpose and burst into flames giving munitions for the naysayers to jump on we need an electrical isambard kingdom brunel to grab the reigns of the system and shake its core becuase its lost it ways of grand gesture and delivers little impressive but it's corruption.
Aberthaw coal power station as been payed to be demolished twice by uk tax payer and thats the fix for the situation after that a field of solar will be used on its grid connection when it has all the facilities and grid connections to be a test plant for much higher loads but instead for a few hours a day in summer it might get near its name plate rating, face palm the whole energy department of c02 hating idiots cant even see the cleanest solution plebs.
ZeroEm
10 MW
lol we keep using more energy. They are have a hard time shutting down any power plant, Coal, Nuclear or any other. Our USA government this year signed extensions for coal and Nuclear plants to stay online for another 3.5 years that were to be decommissioned in the next few years.
Yes having fields of solar panels is questionable. Here they are raising them up and spreading them out so grass will grow and cattle can graze under them. (It's getting hot and dry here so the partial shade helps) Do believe we can put solar on any roof to help and spread out the supply.
Hillhater
100 TW
Check out the cause of the recent 24+ hr blackout in Spain and Portugal…and what was needed to stabilise and restart their grid.
Energy is the lifeblood of any economy, and no nation wants to restrict their economic future.Hence energy demand will continue to increase.
The UK has just anounced their plans to build 2 more new Nuclear power plants to ensure future grid security and power demand.
Energy is the lifeblood of any economy, and no nation wants to restrict their economic future.Hence energy demand will continue to increase.
The UK has just anounced their plans to build 2 more new Nuclear power plants to ensure future grid security and power demand.
Ianhill
1 MW
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2015
- Messages
- 2,921
I get its not easy to do it right at least most the time but this coal plant had been shut for few years all asbestos removed with a prior overhaul in 2008 and been ready to pull down for few years contract of demolishion had been awarded then a different firm moves in starts pulling it down and they both get payed.
Been down there today for a walk watch them nibbling away at it while watching out over the channel and looking at hickley going up, the amount of diesel thats gonna take is tremendous but i see coal is over just the whole situation of corrupt people slowing the game pisses me off if we invested in our future like we did military then everything would be stronger as a result a much better nitted web.
stancecoke
1 MW
Yes, check it. The blackout had nothing to do with too much renewables. It was a day with a usual share of renewables. The fairy tale of ‘the evil renewables’ is only spread by right-wing agitators.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/qa-what-we-do-and-do-not-know-about-the-blackout-in-spain-and-portugal/
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ZeroEm
10 MW
Texas had a 4 day black out in Winter and they tried to blame renewables for it. Later the truth came out. Natural Gas has water in it and it froze. lol. Like I hear all the issues with EV's, they will try to keep you smoking as long as they can.
Hillhater
100 TW
Ahh !…whilst the authorities admit they do not know the Cause of the failure,..
..but they do know it DEFINITELY was not related to renewables ??
…That might be seen as “arse covering”
meanwhile..
….., baffled Spanish grid managers, (who couldn’t possibly speculate on the cause, ?), have increased the nuclear power and the gas, and restricted solar generation for no reason in particular. It’s all very odd, because gas is more expensive, and sun is free.
Per the latest data, in recent days, more reliable traditional generation is being used more, with nuclear responsible for between 14 and 23 percent, and natural gas-fired plants accounting for up to 25 percent
EDIT..
”
While Spanish grid operator REE [Red Eléctrica de España] on Tuesday ruled out a cyber attack as the cause, Spain’s High Court said it would investigate whether the country’s energy infrastructure had suffered a terrorist strike while Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez said his government had not ruled out any hypothesis.
…REE said it had identified two incidents of power generation loss, probably from solar plants, in Spain’s southwest that caused instability in the electric system and led to a breakdown of its interconnection with France.
Spain is one of Europe’s biggest producers of renewable energy, and the blackout sparked debate about whether the volatility of supply from solar or wind made its power systems more vulnerable.
Redeia, which owns Red Electrica, warned in February in its annual report that it faced a risk of “disconnections due to the high penetration of renewables without the technical capacities necessary for an adequate response in the face of disturbances”.
The Minister [Minister for Ecological Transition and Energy Sara Aagesen] ,called this “Strengthened Mode” . ..to reduce the risk of a repeat failure
Lest we forget — in the hours before the crash, renewables were contributing 78% of power to the system, solar power was providing 60% of the energy, while nuclear power was covering 11%, and gas was just 3%.
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Hillhater
100 TW
Yes, some dumb ass decided gas driers were not needed …
BUT, ..where was all that (60 GW) of Solar and Wind plant generation at that time ??
Note:- Tx only needs <40GW of electricity on average.
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ZeroEm
10 MW
They were using it trying to thaw out the gas lines. All the gas was not froze, used a old style gas heater that I keep in case the solar panels freeze.
stancecoke
1 MW
Source
We in Germany have above 80% renewables in these last sunny and windy days. Without any problems...
Live 24/7 CO₂ emissions of electricity consumption
Electricity Maps is a live 24/7 visualization of where your electricity comes from and how much CO2 was emitted to produce it.
app.electricitymaps.com
Your fairy tales don't come true by repeating.
Germany has a ton of renewable energy but per kilowatt hour it's ~4x more expensive then the USA/Many parts of Canada ( both what we'd call fossil energy rich countries ) and Germany seems to be slowly de-industrializing lately..
And then they shut off the nukes..
I don't see it as the poster child of a renewable energy transition going well.
And then they shut off the nukes..
I don't see it as the poster child of a renewable energy transition going well.
stancecoke
1 MW
This has nothing to do with the renewables. That's just a political decision.
Most costs are taxes and grid fees.
There was the "EEG" in former times, to push the renewables, but it doesn't exist any more.
Since this year, every electricity supplier has had to offer a dynamic tariff to make supply-dependent consumption and the purchase of storage systems more attractive.
Strompreissenkung 2025: Wer wirklich profitiert – und was jetzt zu tun ist
Die Bundesregierung plant eine Strompreissenkung um 5 ct/kWh. Wie Netzentgelte, Steuerkürzungen und Smart Meter Verbrauchern 2025 Entlastung bringen.
www.stromvermittlung.de
Hillhater
100 TW
You missed the point of the question…
..If Tx has 60+ GW of renewables for generation, ..why did they not keep the grid supply on when it only needs < 40GW at peak demand ?
IE, even with all the gas generators shut down, there is theoretically enough Wind, Solar, etc to prevent a blackout !
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Hillhater
100 TW
It has everything to do with renewables !
Sure that cost of “generation” maybe only 5c/kWh, but when you include those extra (unavoidable !) costs of storage, backup, many new transmission connection lines etc etc.. (IE:- the “Total cost of Supply to the consumer” ) ,..the end result is much more than a regular Thermal generation supply system.
Germany: The Highest Electricity Prices in the EU - DataPulse Research
Germany often sees itself as a leader and pioneer, but to the dismay of its citizens, it also tops the EU rankings for electricity prices. Interestingly,
www.datapulse.de
…whilst Hungary uses 50+% Nuclear generation , 30% coal and gas, and less than 20% renewables !
Until reality hits home and Politicians accept what the drive to renewables is doing to energy costs and consequent damage to national economies , the developed nations will continue to slide into second rate status.
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stancecoke
1 MW
Show me one single study, that says, enhancing our energy system to be able cover the increasing demand in the future, is cheaper with "traditional" power sources than with renewables.....
Hillhater
100 TW
No ”study” needed when you have established data like the lists posted that PROOVE renewables are more costly than other Thermal ( Fossil, Nuclear, Geothermal, etc) generation systems.….
.when the FULL COST OF SUPPLY is considered.
stancecoke
1 MW
I see no proove, just your bashing.
Almost 90% renewables at the moment, lights are still on, no blackout. Strange.
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Hillhater
100 TW
Just “study” any list of electricity price by country !
I’m sure you can find one if you try !
you are fooling yourself with the “ renewables” label.
What is important is the “ intermittent” sources which are not predictable and also “electronic inverted AC” from DC sources… namely , Wind and Solar.
The others are all conventional AC generated from spinning alternators and fully dispatchable ( predictable )
So, of that 65GW or so total generation, only 50GW, (77%) , are Wind and Solar
stancecoke
1 MW
Sorry, this is completely rubbish. Every country has different cost and wage levels and political measures like subsidies and taxes to influence the direction of development. Show me figures, that give a comparable, objective proove, that the overall costs for renewables are more expensive than fossile/nuclear.
I only read bla bla bla from your posts
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I didn't know that until now. Do you know of any breakdown on how big the tax is relative to the generation cost?
What's your opinion on how it's priced?
I notice that Germans are big fans of... anything that has top electrical efficiency. So it must hurt to a degree.
stancecoke
1 MW
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ok.. 2015.. those are some high taxes..
Some data from Electricity price statistics - Statistics Explained - Eurostat
Looks like taxes are a much smaller portion now and the 'without taxes' cost is above average, but not awful.
But at the end of the day, these are the second highest costs in the EU :/
Some data from Electricity price statistics - Statistics Explained - Eurostat
Looks like taxes are a much smaller portion now and the 'without taxes' cost is above average, but not awful.
But at the end of the day, these are the second highest costs in the EU :/
