Tabless design cylindrical cells tests

I think the preliminary performance specs of the Ampace JP50p1 shows us just how important the independent testing by the likes of Mooch and Pajda are.
The original JP50p1 claims were not all that impressive, but it is right up there with the most impressive 21700 power cells, and if you are a Mooch patron, the 100 amp test reveals a lot.

Lots of guessing goes on until the cell meets the tester.
 
sternwake said:
Batemo's ratings usually are pretty conservative, but I think there is some errors on that page, perhaps some RS60 vs RH 60 implications as I see a pulse rating of 90 amps, but a continuous of upto 20 amps

I really dislike Batemo's line charts too.

Not sure what they are going for other than being different and confusing and difficult to interpret and compare.

I will value only their 'continuous' estimation, as it seems reasonable for a battery within a pack, with No ventilation, and to stay ~10'C under its max rating.
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RS60 is still in developing phase so final amps not finished, could be 30A to 40A continous without triggering temperature cutoff.
 
PTKKreator said:
My understanding is that those 90 amps is not what they rate the cells at, but what they tested and provide data for. See the paragraph right above where it states "-90A"



I guess I presented it somewhat negatively but it's for sure not a bad performance, it's roughly in the same class as traditional power cells, only beaten by tabless and cream of the crop tabbed cells like P50B. Interestingly it's also slightly lighter than all the 5.8Ah energy cells, 3-5g/cell are not going to make a huge difference but could be a small advantage for some applications.
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Screenshot 2026-02-08 202952.png
For medium power applications this cell could be a game changer. Also, the positive terminal of RH60 is noticeably larger in diameter, and the bottom seems to use a spiral laser weld pattern.
 
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I hope All cylindrical cells, whether Power or Energy cells or somewhere in between, start using the larger diameter positive terminals.
I like getting 3 pairs of welds, and if 4 would fit without overlapping, I would use 4.
 
sternwake said:
I hope All cylindrical cells, whether Power or Energy cells or somewhere in between, start using the larger diameter positive terminals.
I like getting 3 pairs of welds, and if 4 would fit without overlapping, I would use 4.
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Do you know if you can weld in negative terminal around the welded spiral? I mean, when it comes to spot welding, the 2 points should be in same side or the weld could be done with the spiral between the 2 points?
 
Eneko77 said:
Do you know if you can weld in negative terminal around the welded spiral? I mean, when it comes to spot welding, the 2 points should be in same side or the weld could be done with the spiral between the 2 points?
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I believe that as long as the welder electrode is not ON the spiral then there is no issue.
The BAK45D does not have a spiral but its internal bottom tab is welded to the can a bit wider than a spiral. I welded across it with no apparent issue.
 
Eneko77 said:
Do you know if you can weld in negative terminal around the welded spiral? I mean, when it comes to spot welding, the 2 points should be in same side or the weld could be done with the spiral between the 2 points?
Click to expand...
The standard warning from the manufacturers of cells with a central spiral is to avoid a 6mm diameter center circle when welding. As @sternwake mentioned, you can weld anywhere outside that. A couple of cells have an open circle weld line near the outer rim. For those we, presumably, need to weld near the center only.
 
Interesting bit about the 2C charging (Convoy's description).
BAK previously listed 1C. Maybe one of those "Not for cycle life"? :mrgreen:
In their QQ post, BAK Power mentions 4C discharging for the 65E, which would put in squarely in M65 territory.
 
Elios.pk said:
Isn't the 65E the exact same cell as the M65A ? It almost look like they are being produced in the exact same factory since they have identical specs.
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Huh? The minimum capacity, standard charge, max charge, AC IR, max discharge, and weight specs are different. All of the 6500mAh cells will probably have similar specs though, just like the 6Ah, 5Ah, and 4Ah cells.

The M65A is a collaboration between Tenpower and Moli. I’ve never seen a mention of BAK also being involved.
 
Souvlucky said:
In their QQ post, BAK Power mentions 4C discharging for the 65E, which would put in squarely in M65 territory.
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Interestingly Convoy only lists it as a maximum of 19.05A discharge. But I wouldn't be so quick to compare it to the M65A. Molicel's datasheet claims it can handle the 26A / 4c discharge continuous without overheating, no mention of a peak value (hopefully a lot more). We have no idea of the 65E's rating is a true continuous like Molicel or a peak rating that's temp limited. Now if only Molicel could get some samples out in the wild already, don't get me started on the P60C...
 
So it seems like the Panasonic NCR18650B, after 14 years, is not being manufactured anymore as per the email I received earlier from Voltaplex.

Prices aren't great at all lmao, but for some companies, having specific certified cells is more important than paying through the nose for these cells.
 
BlueSwordM said:
So it seems like the Panasonic NCR18650B, after 14 years, is not being manufactured anymore as per the email I received earlier from Voltaplex.

Prices aren't great at all lmao, but for some companies, having specific certified cells is more important than paying through the nose for these cells.
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Wasn't the NCR18650B the cell tesla was still using the for Model S & X? I wonder if the cancelation of those models has any play in Panasonic ending production
 
Bengy22 said:
Wasn't the NCR18650B the cell tesla was still using the for Model S & X? I wonder if the cancelation of those models has any play in Panasonic ending production
Click to expand...
Not exactly, They initially used modified model NCR18650BE with slightly lower typical capacity of 3100mAh (3050mAh min) but significantly lower DCIR than original NCR18650B model. Then they switch to modified 18650GA model and now it is 18650T which is an evolution of GA.
 
Do you know, which 2170 are used in M3 or MYs? Especially these with Panasonic packs.
 
freesty said:
Do you know, which 2170 are used in M3 or MYs? Especially these with Panasonic packs.
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The US versions use aluminium canned Panasonic 21700s, the rest of the world uses LG M50T/LT, which have higher IR and higher thermal resistance due to using a steel can.
 
okey, didnt know about different cans.
I asked, cuz late '21 and early '22 Panasonic fail a lot in Model 3s. For european market the cells were delivered from US Nevada? to Shanghai and assembled there for Model 3 battery packs delivered in Europe.
 
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