1000 watt hours per side.

DogDipstick

100 kW
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
1,869
Location
Fleetwood Pa
One thousand watt hours on each side. Pic heavy.

Replacement of my old battery with a newly built.

I will then post some of my other batteries, that I have built for friends, and pictures of the system I use and am comfortable with. Ask me anything about my builds, i love to share info with fellow ebikers and battery builders.I would love to hear your experiences too. Be free.

All 100% recycled EV cells. 2019 Chevrolet Volt.

Old Faithful, ~180wH/kG, 15Ah, 72v,..... Unknown age. Unknown cycles. Cells were circa 2015, from an unknown battery, purchased on through eBay from Art at Green Tec Auto ( good seller, if you like recycling. ) . From a poor Chevrolet Volt Gen 1 car that perished some time along the way.

.... to a 204wH/kg, 1.8kWh nominal, 25Ah, 72v pack. 6AWG silicone wire, 200A fuse, easy 10C capable continuous. Lets not even talk about peaks. Lets just say it will peak very high. Brand new cells, acquired from a Chevrolet dealership going out of business in Ohio. Result of the the Pandemic. 2019 cell. LGZ P2.7 is the name printed on the cell.

Black CNC machined polycarbonate case. The battery will live in this case for the rest of its life. That is the plan. 200A MIDI fuse, 1/4 inch thick poly machined on a cnc router, and bent on a high wattage poly carbonate bender (home made design,). Both side covers are easily removable for maintenance. There is a port, connecting both halves, to carry the power 6AWG and associated battery series circuit.

2x 10s, 25Ah, each 900wH. One on each side of the bike.
6AWG silicone and Panduit, 1/4 inch lugs serve everything high current.
2x DB15 ports, to serve the cell level balancing connections.
20AWG on, Cannon gold pins, to serve the BMS cell level taps. This harness has not been built yet, but will serve the entire battery ( both sides) when hooked up and charged through a BMS.
8AWG chargin line protected by an ANL fiberglass and mica fuse.
Decorative side panels to be installed, clear CNC cut poly carbonate. Might also cover up the panel screws with this piece. .. I dont know. To be installed ( with the terminal mount for the DB15 connections cut in).

Charge # 1.... and counting.
 

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Pic set # 2.

I will explain any of these pics upon req.
 

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Hillhater said:
...that fork travel . :lol:


Thank you. The pack is sturdy, and well fitting.
Yes. We conveniently ignore some things around here.. Sir. Ahem ahem Nothing to see here.


Well, took my first ride with this box. Top speed increased to ~56mph from the 52-53 mph. A solid increase with the more capacity in the pack. It is a smooth, strong pack.. but.. Not quite as ' punchy" as the 15Ah cells were. i dont know why that is.. ever so slightly less punch off the line. My controller is 105A contin and 150A phase. 4.5kW contin output. Kelly. I have an Adapto Max-E I might try if I ever get ambitious. that will give me about 350pA (and a much faster acceleration I hope).


Efficiency is good over all ranges.
The sim says I will go 63 miles at ~33wH/mile, 20% throttle or less, 26mph maximum. 11 battery amps. Never overheat.
13% throttle is 20mph and 94 miles range at a whopping 5A battery, 82% efficient. 21.6 wh/mile and never overheating.
100% throttle? 15 miles at 130 wH/mile at 100% full throttle and at top speed of 57mph. Overheat in 8.3min. Lol. DOH!

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MCRO5004&batt=cust_82_0.02_25&cont=cust_105_150_0.03_T&kv=12.67&axis=mph&hp=0&mass=120&throt=19

Yeah its still not perfect, but its better than it was. Lol. Yeah I smacked the old one alot. I'll post a pic of the rub marks.. Polycarbonate is tough stuff let me tell you. I specifically tried to go wide, and increase travel with this one. I did a little, but, no, I still dont have the full 200mm on the forks. I have about 120-140mm available now.. ( was like 80mm travel on a 200mm fork, .. yuup... ) but I could probably still bottom it out if I tried.

It is a street bike. Thats all. I mean I can ride though grassy fields and whatnot.. but it isnt for jumping.

The frame is 2.5" wide on the downtube.. and I made the gap between the boxxes 3.5" wide on this one. Upon compression the tire nests into this negative space about an inch until it hits the machined "X" shaped brace on teh bottom of the assy( see teh X in the last pic).

So that is ( wide) 5inches of box.. 3.5 inch gap, and another 5" box.. Tire is a 2.75. I wanted a little more leeway. I got it in the front to rear pitch freedom, but the pack is almost..annoyingly wide now. Feet hit on the pedals with 16mm pedal extensions even. I might find a wide axle BB or buy the 20mm extensions ( or both).

...its a better box. Better battery... Worse ergonomics. Looks cool though. handles better, with teh mass a little more forward and higher than the old " low slung " pack.

It heats it up real nice.

Some battery construction photos. I also want to upload a few prior builds too, when I get the pics together.
 

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ebuilder said:
All I can say is "Wow DogDipstick". Amazing, outside the box creativity.

Can you tell us a bit more please?

Sure. Thankyou. The pack is 1800 wh nominal.
It is a rebranded, North Face clothing contracted design. Ironhorse Hollowpoint rebadge, that was sold at Dicks Sporting Goods in the early 2000s. It is an excellent DW link frame. It was one of " Dicks" top of the line offerings.. Lol... back in the day. It is very strong. 100lb total.. frame is lighter than you want to know. It retailed for somewhere around 1200$ all tricked out with Shimano XTR. I bought the frame, alone, from eBay, used and broken.



It is a Gen 2, 25Ah cell. The car holds 192 cells total, OEM..... and i use 20 of those, in two, 10 cell, sub packs.

My posts from 2-3 years ago I went over alot of the cells I built with. I have held all four cells, that were in the 10 years of that cars revision. Yes, these cells are quite good for the era they are from. I have been told they were " very advanced cells, and composition" from real battery scientists who could not tell me any more, for NDA. Yes, The Volt was quite the vehicle taking a step forward, and I follow a group of owners on Facebook for fun. I have probally stripped, tested, and sold over 400 good cells, some in builds, and some not, to friends and customers over the years.

The frame is 7005 Aluminum, and yes I have welded it for repair. No heat treatment is necessary with this aluminum alloy. I did not cut any tubes, they are all still there. I purchased it for 9$ with a broken swingarm.. that I reinforced with some welded gussets.. but that is all the welding I have done on it. Everything else is machined polycarbonate. There is a 3.5" gap in between the boxxes on each side for suspension compression allowance. It is a shame I dont pedal more. It is a great pedaling frame, if the box was not right in the middle.

I have two more, bike frames in 7005 here, to weld into something fun, if I ever get my ducks in a line. I want to move to metal... Its stronger. Poly is a good plastic, but metal would be better. Someday i will do that.

Yes the plastic boxxes are very complex, and very strong. I have gotten quite good at machining poly, and bending panels with my firebrick/strip heater bending oven. It is good pracice for my hobby with the cnc router.. I am no expert there .. Alot to learn yet, and the plastic is forgiving.

It is a QSV3 in a 19" Sur Ron rim hand spoked. 13kV... "4 turn motor". Kelly KEB72450is the controller. No gauges or SOC meter, no BMS. Sometimes I carry a Multimeter clamp.. I will balance charge, ona hobby charger, or build the external BMS harness ( as I paln) for it soon. The two side panels are getting the ports to output the balance lines to the sides of the bike for this charge routine.

This is not the only one I have built. I will post a few pics of the terminals and other batteries Ihave built. Here is a 30Ah, from an Early Chevrolet cell. This is a 2p, 30Ah, 72v battry broken into the two 10s sub-packs, with terminal for the BMS installation. I'll post another then. Here are some more pics.
 

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Looks like you'll have serious issues if you compress the fork with the front wheel turned to the side.
 
Chalo said:
Looks like you'll have serious issues if you compress the fork with the front wheel turned to the side.


Yes.. Yeah well.. I will try not to do that.

I have never run into that ( kind of a ) situation on any ( on road) motorcycle in my life. I put 5000miles on a brand new 188hp bike, once upon a time, even.. That thing was some kind of menace when it came to hitting things head on ( the back of cars on the highway at 160mph lol) ( yea be careful with that kind of speed.. ) ... AKA " stupid power".. But I'm thinking I will jsut stay out of those kind of .. necessities for compression allowance, and or anti-dive characteristics.

Much better than it was. It used to be 80mm then !THUNK! hit the box. Box would act like a brake on a dive. That is why I really tried to free up some travel by putting each sub-pack on the side with a gap between them. I can still turn the bar as far as I need to, right or left, on a dive, in control ( so far, day 1). With the tire, being about 2" wide there.... I have a 3.5" area to swing the bars in under full ( street riding) compression when I go to flick it into a turn... but it never even gets near " nested between the boxes" so far. I might pull the spring to really see what is going on.

It is annoyingly wide now. Gotta get used to it. Its not perfect.. I like(d) to pedal. However.. it is 94 miles at 20mph. Tradeoffs, being what they are.

It is a kinda hardcore fork made for jumping off cliffs, major downhill fork, and things on a normal bike. It gets really really hard near the end of its travel, it has the compression damper and the black hard spring in it. All the things to mitigate. I dont use more than 100mm often on my rides. Compression damper has 8 clicks and is very aggressive.

The thinking is that if you are turning, while in a dive, that much, you are already panicked, and crashing, and good luck to ya.

Yeah its a concern.
 
What kind of heat shrink are you using? Looks like Kapton ^^
I have blue, black, and amber PVC heat shrink. I also have Kapton of every shape and size. I have a 10" roll, 600 yards long. 1/2 inch rolls. 1/4 inch rolls. 2", 3", rolls.

I use a layer of the 10" Kapton between every cell to keep transient currents and potentials from arising. Not one cell touches another physically, except for the electrical tab connection. I also use Penetrox between every connection on the riveted bus connections. Then the tape, to tape the rubber 600v insulation over the busses, then heat shrink the whole thing together with a 1/8" piece of polycarbonate under the heatshrink ( see the plate, in the pics above, before heat shrinking.. One of the first pics I posted. ) . This is to provide even restraint, and a hard surface, to protect the faces pack throughout its life.


I buy what I can, and collect for my " lab".. and have been doing this for a little while now. I am well equipped.

ebuilder said:
I believe an entire Volt battery pack will supply over 300 amps continuous and correct me if wrong.

430A. A Chevrolet brochure stated that this is the design current of the Volt.

Based on Chevy publication. However, I have tested it ( the cell alone) and found it is capable of more. The cell is 204wH/kg. A cell by itself is 92.5 watt hours. Being from a hybrid, with high charger rates ( 60kW) and discharge rates (120kW) this is certainly a power cell, as opposed to a energy cell. Small pack, charged often, and discharged fast. Hybrid.

I was certainly lucky to find one.... new, in the wild. I purchased 8.9kWh nominal and had it picked up by a friend, shipped it ~700 miles to my home for ~1500$ all said and done.
 

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Funny thing is.. is that.... the first box I built.. was just a wee tiny bit to small. Battery did not fit nicely.

Lol.

DOH! That is when I made the decision to go with the gloss black. What you are looking at is not the first attempt. :) This is a revised design of my original " split pack box".

Yup.
 

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ebuilder said:
My dilemma, and I too

Yeah. Its an issue. I have a distinct need for a commuter, that this is. Reliability and distance. Always ready, not breaking down, just smooth rolling for miles. Yes the pedal system is almost useless now.. Grrrr.

I have a much lower power, lighter, mid drive bicycle, with a tork sensing system, in the plans. Something like 35 or 40mph, 14s, small controller bike. I honestly like to pedal along at my own pace. I dont need to join the 60mph Ebike Club Med... In all honesty. I have used reasonable, lighter, ebikes, and you can take them further if you built them right. There is nothing like a good tork sensing pedal system and a low power efficient ebike. I really miss being able to pedal along, productively. Being 40, or 55lbs all up, instead of 100lb. Yeah I dont know how I feel about this not having a clear crank throw, without sticking your toes out.

I will try to get used to it. Pretty sure i am going to build a good light bike next. One that I can peddle and make a difference.

More pictures.. Some new, some old.
 

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Chalo said:
Looks like you'll have serious issues if you compress the fork with the front wheel turned to the side.

Hillhater said:
Hmmm ?….very nice pack build.
…but ,..better lock out that fork travel before you ride. ! :lol:

I took the spring out and measured. Just for you guys.

The fork is a 7.5" travel, 7.87" OEM with three bumpstop travel spacers of 5mm each. So The fork can travel, maximum, 7.5".

I have 5.25" of travel, nested in between the boxxes. I rarely use more than 4 inches. I would have to panic stop from 50mph to reach this level of compression on the dive in a panic stop. I dont even have the horsepower in the brakes to stop fast enough to compress the spring to the maximum. Lol. This fork is built dampening 1G+ hits... for 32feet per second squared.. lol.. not a measly quarter G, or half a G, braking force, stopping load. Or less. Lol. Only an impact ( with a wall, a car, ect) would compress the fork into the boxxes.

While nested in between the boxxes, bars, I have 40* of bar travel. 20* each direction. More than enough to maneuver.

When it is NOT nested, in the wheel travel space, ( turned past 22* right ot left) I still have 4.25" of travel. THere I have full lock to lock bar travel. There was a lot of wasted space up under the controller box in the first design. This pack makes use of that space,.. Much better center of roll center too, now. Pack being higher, and more tucked in.

It is much better than it was. I make use of the wasted space .

Its 90 miles + at 20mph at 84%+. I'll make do. Lol.
 

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Another one I built. Complete with carry straps, and forced air cooling option. Lol.

The BMS is sitting on top, inside that black case.
 

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Couple questions:
Where you have the phillips head screws into the polycarbonate case, what are they screwing into? Did you install brass thread inserts or similar?

How much do they weigh?

When I first saw the nylon seatbelt webbing, I thought "what is he doing with that piece of ribbon cable to nowhere?" :lol:

file.php
 
Puzzling failure mode on the swingarm endlink bushing holder. Almost like it broke on rebound, not compression. Binding? Or possibly the swingarm got tweaked sideways? Sloppy bearing install?
file.php
 
99t4 said:
...the phillips head screws into the polycarbonate case, what are they screwing into?.

Almost like it broke on rebound, not compression.

Yes that was the first thing we noticed too. It broke on a rebound event, you can be certain of that.

Turns out this was a problem with this frame. This is a 2004 frame, Ironhorse Bikes redesigned the swingarm, and specifically reinforced this area, on the later MK3 2004 and MK3 2005 Hollowpoint. Slightly different rocker design. This is a 2004 Hollowpoint MK2., and had decent reviews for its time. More than one bike broke in this manner, and they redesigned later revisions of the bike. It would break on a hard rebound event. You see how light it is. Frame alone is very light.

It is designed as an " XC" bike. This frame was designed by a well known bicycle frame designer, and bicycle suspension engineer, Dave Weagle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DW-link
https://www.google.com/search?q=Iron+Horse+Hollowpoint+rocker+&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjWm9v-3Jf5AhU3tXIEHXXLA4MQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=Iron+Horse+Hollowpoint+rocker+&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJ1CcDVjaGGCKGmgAcAB4AIABeogB_wWSAQM2LjKYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=MnvgYta6HLfqytMP9ZaPmAg&bih=758&biw=1067&client=firefox-b-1-d|

This newer swingarm, does fit on my bike, with the included redesigned rocker. However I have never seen one for sale in the real world.. So i welded a strap around mine. Milled out the bearing surface, and it has held up well. Yes, it was a sloppy job, but its strong.

Here is ( a picture of) the redesigned rocker, and swingarm. You can see the made it much stronger.
Redesigned link.jpg
Revised linkage.jpg
The screws are mounted into a tiny helicoil. I have rolls of them. Ill get a pic hold on... And the top ( 4) bolts that bolt the upper and lower cases together... are machine screws with countersunk washers, on one side, into the lower case, brass "Time Sert" style inserts.These carry most of ( all of) the load, and are 1/4-28 threaded.

Yup, they dont just screw into plastic. Lol.Teeny tiny Helicoils. Rivets, both large and small, are used everywhere a disassembly will not be needed. Needless to say, I got really really good at threading tiny helicoils into the bottom of holes with needle nose pliers.
 

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Side cover day.
 

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Yup. Thankyou both.

Its good.

Its really really good.
 

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Not the whole thing. I take a 12-13mile ride to a nearby town often ( like today) and that brings the pack down about 6-7v. From 84 on the dot, to about 77v, 78v. This is generally around 40mph, throttle only, with some peaks at full speed and some slow cruising too. I dont really like to sit at top speed, I am learning. its no fun with all that wind in your face: I live on a small hilly region near farmlands, and riding through 12 miles of farmland... is kinda beautiful with the rolling hills and fields in the area. So I like to take it slower and take it in.

It starts out, drops through 82, 81 pretty fast.. then.. takes alotta miles to get from about 80v ( 4v per cell) to near empty, gives power until 3.2v... Per cell then a pretty steep drop off. I never ever really get out of the 70s. There is alot of SOC from 3.3v per cell to 3.8v.. that is where the cell likes to give its power the most consistently, where most of the SOC is. .. if you get what I am saying.


... However.. the really cool part.. Of the whole " Volt pack" thing..( and recycled EV cells in general.. ) is the lifespan.

I do not worry about the longevity of my cell. They just dont die.

liveforphysics said:
The Volt cells reach >~40,000 cycles of shallow DOD (50%).
 
Awesome build, absolutely love it.
DogDipstick said:
... However.. the really cool part.. Of the whole " Volt pack" thing..( and recycled EV cells in general.. ) is the lifespan.
Then how do you make a pack using pouch cells like these? Do you have a guide? I'm spooked by them and it seems that most drill into the tabs to bolt them together.
 
DogDipstick said:
I do not worry about the longevity of my cell. They just dont die.

ebike11 said:
Awesome pack!!
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Awesome build, absolutely love it.
Ditto, Ditto to DogDipstick's Awesome Custom E-Bike and EV Pouch Battery - :thumb: and :thumb:

Checked out that interesting website (Beckersville Steam sticker on your ebike battery) ...
original


My great grandfather was employed as a Steamboat Engineer, Clerk and Cub Pilot on the Mississippi River running Steamboats between St. Paul and St. Louis. He designed a steam heating system for his home ... modest mansion on the upper Mississippi (Lake Pepin area).
 
nicobie said:
That's a very good looking bike. You do nice work.

I've been wanting a strapping tool for awhile. What brand do you own? Do you like it?

Band-It. Band-It metal strapping tool.

The strapping tool is a Band-It brand. The only good one there is.. Uline sells one too I think, USA made, but it is the same tool. I also have the ratcheting poly strapping tools, and the big seal crimpers in four different sizes. I got a ton of strapping in stainless, poly, and steel. I honestly use the poly and ratchet the most.. Poly is cheap. 3000 foot roll for 100$.

I invested in them because i do alot of eBay selling and am a Top Rated seller: I use UPS for shipping and pickups. The tools help me make sure the customer gets the package safe and sound. For instance, i sell a CNC fixture plate of 2 feet by 1 foot ( not small) that is 1/4 inch thick with 2017 precisely machined holes, machine ground on all sides, and accurate to 0.0005 inch. I have sold a few hundered, some buyers buy 1, some buy 10. I build a shipping crate for this plate(s) shipment, and the poly strapping just makes it easy construction of and makes sure the package is not damaged. I actually do use them alot. I had the idea too to use it to compress battery packs with a preload, and also strap things on bikes with it. A hose clamp sucks.. but a 3/4 inch stainless shipping band and seal is almost to tough to cut with snips... ( is, and will, destroy most snips if they try to cut it, at a non-optimal shear angle.. esp. if you double them up. Thousands of lbs force, these "Band-It" bands can apply) and provides a security that hose clamps do not. It is the kind of thing that townships use to strap street signs to telephone poles permanently.

I have ( an extra) one if you want to buy it. New, in blue, I could do 120$+ship. Here is the retail price.

https://www.grainger.com/product/2LNP8?gucid=N:N:pS:paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gclid=Cj0KCQjw852XBhC6ARIsAJsFPN1JRF23ljrYIwVTmu4yEZGyP-IhhBLuX0gxNJOPqAEkcJdD6PSZRvQaAjRjEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

This is the plate I sell. If you look at the pics you can see the shipping crate i build too. Black or Grey anodizing. 2017 hole plate.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115424172375?hash=item1adfd11957:g:g04AAOSwl15h3F4l

Huh. Looks like I just sold 8 more. Thanks for making me check. Lol.
 
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