12 kw rc motor

Very exitinng Motor development.

Was wondering about the Ealier prototype on the window ledge.
edit Motor Collosus Proto1 -Windings.JPG
Would be very nice to see inside showing the Stator windings.

It was mentioned there is 20 (I think?) but wouldn't it be 21 so 21/3 = 7.

Or is it 18 so 18/3 = 6 so you get 3 pole pairs. See my edited picture above.

Also the magnets in the rotor outrunner.

And is the Rotor made from cast aluminium?
Or a sintered core of special magnetic material?
 
I think it's likely 20magnets, 18poles.

For most RC motors, the outrunner case is almost always 6061 aluminum bored on a lathe, then fitted with bars of neodymium magnets with a space of roughly 1/4 the width of the magnets between each one, and secured in place with an epoxy.
 
ZapPat said:
And what about magnetic saturation of the stator laminations? I am no expert on motors, but in the case of the 9C hubs efficiency takes a huge hit as the laminations saturate at around 100A depending on the kV of the model.

Pat

Good point Pat!
The rules mentioned here, always work within certain limits.
Don't forget the skin effect in the copper wire and hot spots demagnetizing the magnets( no problem here, I think? )

IIRC it was mentioned that the wire gauge was 4g?
How many strands are in parallel?
Diameter of each strand would be interesting and are they single or double coated?
From the pictures, the slots look filled pretty well, but thats always the case with multistrand winding. Like Luke said, it's all about copper fill rate. With a thin double coated strand you probably can't get more than 60% but it's easier to wind. With a single wire winding you can get up to 80-90% copper in the slot.

HAL, would it be possible to send me a motor without winding? Maybe I can easily unwind a stator? Depends on the goop used in china.
Shipping from Croatia-> Germany wouldn't be too expensive. I'd like to test my winding skills on such a monster, pleeeease :)
I'll send it back and you can compare the test results with the factory made.

-Olaf
 
@olaf: I didn't plan to import unfinished motors. So I think you should unwound yours. We are struggaling now to find out what type of bearings they will put in. To remain under 300$ the bearengs will be "the best Chinese" for 350$ some Japanese bearings and if we import dissasembled motors (but wounded) and instal some good bearings (SKF,TOYO,INA...) the cost without labor will be around 400$.

@Jeremy: Excelent point, I just slip that out of my mind and take for granted life span. If we calculate that with normal charger with some normal batery pack (3-5kwh) and with some normal speed we can calculate 1,5hour/day of motor working. with normal 2rz/2zz bearing at 7000 rpm we get around 5 years of bearing life. You realy calm me down... :)

@zap: I don't know but if producers state 60V200A without cooling system I think this is quite censervative numbers..

And for all some good news. The 5 samples are shipped today !!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Did I miss something or did this thread get moved into another forum (I thought I was losing my mind the last few days)? Also, this thread doesn't show up in a search (unless you count finding it in a link in a post on a totally different thread). Now I need to figure out how to subscribe as I can't see the "subscribe check box" as outlined in the FAQ....
 
tritonwow said:
Did I miss something or did this thread get moved into another forum (I thought I was losing my mind the last few days) by an admin?

Fee, Fie, Foe, Fum. I smell the blood of an English Mun.
 
tritonwow said:
Did I miss something or did this thread get moved into another forum (I thought I was losing my mind the last few days)? Also, this thread doesn't show up in a search (unless you count finding it in a link in a post on a totally different thread). Now I need to figure out how to subscribe as I can't see the "subscribe check box" as outlined in the FAQ....
To subscribe, the button may be in different locations, depending on the style you have set in the UCP:

"Prosilver" (default): the button is in the bottom left of the page... looks like a checkbox.
"Subsilver": the button is in the upper-left, under the topic title and new-topic & reply buttons... button is a text-link "susbscribe topic".
 
HAL9000v2.0 said:
And for all some good news. The 5 samples are shipped today !!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Any chance one of the motors is going to Luke (liveforphysics)?

And if you need any help with importing/exporting, I can help. My dad works in international trade, over 30 years experience. Any questions or concerns, PM me and I'll pass the message and get answers for you.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
countermeasure said:
Any chance one of the motors is going to Luke (liveforphysics)?

I thought he was making some custom carbon fiber motor he already bought all the materials..

KiM
 
AussieJester said:
countermeasure said:
Any chance one of the motors is going to Luke (liveforphysics)?

I thought he was making some custom carbon fiber motor he already bought all the materials..

KiM


Bought all materials, and a CNC machine and tooling to shape the materials... What did I get done with all that stuff? Nothing. It's sitting in a pile with 10 other projects I would love to get time to handle. "Life" has been kicking my ass all over the place. Last night my boss calls me and says I'm leaving for "undetermined period" to Atlanta for setting up deployment of some crazy mobile OPs center for the oil clean-up logistics... Meanwhile, I'm finally recovering from the taxman completely hammering my wallet, and trying to be at least a 1 day a week Dad to my son (who barely recognizes me), when I have a work schedule that only has 1 day off a week at best. :( Try to be a dad? Try to be a motor builder? Try to build controllers? Try learning to use my CNC more than 20mins a month? Try to stay on top of an endlessly deep work project schedule? IMO, Buying some of these motors for under $400 bucks, hell even if they just come in under $500-600 bucks, it will be the best deal out there in motors by a long shot. I'm damn excited about these things.

KiM- I know you're rightfully butt-hurt about me F'ing up doing the suped-up controller for you. Totally understandable, and I'm sorry I didn't get that ish finished before you wanted it done. I paypal'd you $330Payment Sent (Unique Transaction ID #02004413NG385943U) to hopefully make up for it, and so you can be sure to get one of these bad-ass motors in your hands as soon as possible.
-Luke
 
liveforphysics said:
AussieJester said:
countermeasure said:
Any chance one of the motors is going to Luke (liveforphysics)?

I thought he was making some custom carbon fiber motor he already bought all the materials..

KiM


Bought all materials, and a CNC machine and tooling to shape the materials... What did I get done with all that stuff? Nothing. It's sitting in a pile with 10 other projects I would love to get time to handle. "Life" has been kicking my ass all over the place. Last night my boss calls me and says I'm leaving for "undetermined period" to Atlanta for setting up deployment of some crazy mobile OPs center for the oil clean-up logistics... Meanwhile, I'm finally recovering from the taxman completely hammering my wallet, and trying to be at least a 1 day a week Dad to my son (who barely recognizes me), when I have a work schedule that only has 1 day off a week at best. :( Try to be a dad? Try to be a motor builder? Try to build controllers? Try learning to use my CNC more than 20mins a month? Try to stay on top of an endlessly deep work project schedule? IMO, Buying some of these motors for under $400 bucks, hell even if they just come in under $500-600 bucks, it will be the best deal out there in motors by a long shot. I'm damn excited about these things.

-Luke
Shhhhhhhhh man we need to get some of these in our hands before the price gets cranked up. I think I need to come help you try to get caught up a bit. Thats after I get caught up a bit myself lol. My friends bug me about all my projects I have on the go as well. But Slowly they get done one at a time! Good luck down there!
 
Has anyone looked at this motor? http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_18&products_id=130
 
liveforphysics said:
KiM- I know you're rightfully butt-hurt about me F'ing up doing the suped-up controller for you. Totally understandable, and I'm sorry I didn't get that ish finished before you wanted it done. I paypal'd you $330Payment Sent (Unique Transaction ID #02004413NG385943U) to hopefully make up for it, and so you can be sure to get one of these bad-ass motors in your hands as soon as possible.
-Luke

Appreciate the payment Luke but your appology weeks ago was enough i understand you have alot on your plate, your also
hurting from tax time i know, shall refund the 330 less the money i paid for the controller and we can shall call it even mate :)

I look forward to getting one of these 12kw motors myself, shall mount it in my cruiser for a test too see how they perform but ultimately
i shall build acomplete new bike for it and likely down the track get it another motor friend to keep it company hehe

KiM
 
Put me down for one!!

When are you ordering these and how soon will we get them?

Kevin
 
drat it. I need to know what kind of controller will go with this motor? what's the total cost of the motor + a brushless controller that'll make it do it's max AMPS.

If Someone can supply this info, I bet a lot more people will buy this motor
 
An appropriately chosen Kelly controller would be a good bet. However, testing should be done first to assure it operates properly by someone before everyone rushes out to get one. It's possible that there's an RPM ceiling with the Kellys that wouldn't allow full exploitation of this motor.

Okay, just checked. Apparently they're limited to 40,000 electrical RPM which is equal to a mechanical RPM of ... 40,000 / 14 poles = 2857 . Yeah, it doesn't seem like Kelly's can take advantage of this much motor speed and thus power.

Although looking forward, apparently there's a "High speed option" for $80 extra that allows 70,000 electric RPM = mechanical RPM of 5000. That's a bit more acceptable, though still limiting from its potential of 6000-7000 RPM (Or higher in Luke's case).
 
swbluto said:
An appropriately chosen Kelly controller would be a good bet. However, testing should be done first to assure it operates properly by someone before everyone rushes out to get one. It's possible that there's an RPM ceiling with the Kellys that wouldn't allow full exploitation of this motor.

Okay, just checked. Apparently they're limited to 40,000 electrical RPM which is equal to a mechanical RPM of ... 40,000 / 14 poles = 2857 . Yeah, it doesn't seem like Kelly's can take advantage of this much motor speed and thus power.

They have a high speed option and can go to 70000 E_RPM that's 5000 RPM

Mark
 
what's the motor's weight?
would you think that the sevcon would make less noise with it's signal wave?
the kelly is the cheaper of the two, i looked it up and it's $300 or $350.



swbluto said:
An appropriately chosen Kelly controller would be a good bet. However, testing should be done first to assure it operates properly by someone before everyone rushes out to get one. It's possible that there's an RPM ceiling with the Kellys that wouldn't allow full exploitation of this motor.

Okay, just checked. Apparently they're limited to 40,000 electrical RPM which is equal to a mechanical RPM of ... 40,000 / 14 poles = 2857 . Yeah, it doesn't seem like Kelly's can take advantage of this much motor speed and thus power.
 
Forgive the noob question... but why is brushless so much better than brushed? is it all about brush-wear after x amounts of rpm?

markcycle said:
swbluto said:
An appropriately chosen Kelly controller would be a good bet. However, testing should be done first to assure it operates properly by someone before everyone rushes out to get one. It's possible that there's an RPM ceiling with the Kellys that wouldn't allow full exploitation of this motor.

Okay, just checked. Apparently they're limited to 40,000 electrical RPM which is equal to a mechanical RPM of ... 40,000 / 14 poles = 2857 . Yeah, it doesn't seem like Kelly's can take advantage of this much motor speed and thus power.

They have a high speed option and can go to 70000 E_RPM that's 5000 RPM

Mark
 
I think at high rpm, a lot of losses or problems occur due to the "sparking" that occurs when the brushes contact and break contact with the commutator. This doesn't happen with brushless, of course. But I am on highly uncertain ground here :p
 
novembersierra28 said:
Forgive the noob question... but why is brushless so much better than brushed? is it all about brush-wear after x amounts of rpm?

Largely because the power density of brushless motors is much greater and they have much less maintenance needs.

A brushed motor of equivalent power would weigh at least 30 pounds and it'd be at least 3 times "bigger", so you'd likely be looking at a heavy, large motor. Also, brushes don't like higher amperage or they erode much faster and it seems like brushed motors have sucky cooling so they're much more vulnerable to being damaged by overuse and overheating.

With a good brushless motor, your maintenance concerns are primarily bearings and you can find those pretty much anywhere and they're pretty cheap. With a brushed motor, you're looking at brush replacement and bearings and finding the replacement parts and replacing them can be a pain in the neck.
 
swbluto said:
Okay, just checked. Apparently they're limited to 40,000 electrical RPM which is equal to a mechanical RPM of ... 40,000 / 14 poles = 2857 . Yeah, it doesn't seem like Kelly's can take advantage of this much motor speed and thus power.

You have to divide 40.000 by the number of magnetic poles, not number of stator teeth. It's most probably 5 or 7.

Thanks
Olaf
 
swbluto said:
Okay, just checked. Apparently they're limited to 40,000 electrical RPM which is equal to a mechanical RPM of ... 40,000 / 14 poles = 2857 . Yeah, it doesn't seem like Kelly's can take advantage of this much motor speed and thus power.

You have to divide 40.000 by the number of magnetic poles, are you sure about 14?

Thanks
Olaf
 
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