19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[cannonfodder]

John Holmes.
Could you please confirm you correct email address. I have messaged you regarding a 19" x 1.60 MC rims for my Torque Raptor Cromotor project. Not sure I have been emailing the correct address.
Thanks.
Mark.

 

[Obiwan007]

Hey GiantEV, I know right where your at. I laced my first two wheels for my latest build. Bit intimidating at first but I found the following article the most helpful to me in getting it right (they both came out perfect. One hub motor and one front hub) here:

http://miketechinfo.com/new-tech-wheels-tires.htm

Read the whole thing. Lots of good info on tools technique and getting it right the first time.

Also this spoke calculator was my favorite because it allows you to put dish into the calculation and shows a graphic representation of the spoke angles when it is done:

http://kstoerz.com/freespoke/fullcalc

You'll be glad you did it yourself when you are done. Obiwan

 

[Dark Knight]

Hey chaps
Thanks for all the response re: building wheel - some fantastic tips in there. Like your Ghetto trueing stand Rix - that is pure gold! Not sure if I would have thought of using the/a swingarm and bolts like that - I really like it. And thanks for the detailed explanation - your ability to explain things clearly and succintly is much appreciated - I may be hitting you up directly for advice as I go through the process...

To address another point, there is no question I'll be going with a 19 in in the rear - hopefuly with a CroMotor laced in...and you chaps have given me the 'confidence' to have a crack at it.

its a work of passion I guess. and if you are of meticulous nature, you know what they say nobody else can do it better

Amen to that - I practically built half the house we live in due to ridiculously overpriced tradies not giving a flying fork about quality (not all are like that - just you're always going to put more effort into your own pride and joy).

if you never done this before some homework would be on your first order of bussiness

Too true - the main thing I was looking for here was a 'don't be an idiot, if you've never done it before you'll likely kill yaself' or the 'give it a crack my son, but remember, it's easy to get wrong even if it's not ridiculously hard to get right'...the latter being kinda what I got. Means I can now order stuff up and have it shipped to me over in Ozland rather than forwarding elsewhere for builds etc.

Once all the kit arrives (not even ordered yet) I'll have a crack @ building up and will throw some feedback on the sphere. Might even do a little step by step of 'how dumbo built his wheel' - I always find that instruction are best written by someone having never done an activity before - they tend to not forget the 'assumed knowledge' that many skiiled people overlook when providing a 'how to' guide.

Thanks again y'all - the feedback as always is 100% useful.

 

[pucksterpete]

Not a 19", but 17"
The 17" mx rim is here, more than enough clearance for a larger tire on this frame, 2.75 topps Currently 2.25 Sava road tire. 26" wheel still on front, now will order another 17" rim for the front. A very BIG THANKS to Rix, for helping with this switch over. I probably would have delayed or not done it at all. Hopefully NO more FLATS!!!

Will make rear mudguard shorter & position lower
I have to say riding it like this has kept that motor cool than before on 26's, feels more stable in the back.

 

[2007blueprius]

one thing that has not been mentioned, the actual lacing has a certain sequance, there are a few different ways of going about it, couple of things to keep a look out for is that a spoke does not cross against the vanvestem making it imposible to inflate, and the order they go in so you can cross them, these are rather thick not as maleable as bike spokes, but these are all details, we'll cross that bridge when you get there,

since you are going to use a cromotor, I don't asume you have it yet, and a 19'' WHEEL, bit more popular, you may be able to get dimensions form Rix and others and order the spokes allready, I had to wait for the rim before I could figure out spokes, and if you look back a few posts about that, it worked out pretty guudm most spokes are just right, couple close to top, but not through, couple a little lower, some of that is imperfections in manufacuring of rim/hub, couple spokes may have been cut different too, I am only talking about 1mm up or down.

I believe my numbers came in at 157.9 I got 156mm, 155 would have been better I think, but that was for my build yours will differ same method applies, also back there is my truing rig too, might have mised it, its not that obvious, we'll see what you come up with, may be better than all I ever saw.

good luck

 

[Rix]

Damn Pete, your build came out great. How do you like the acceleration now? Should be a bit better with that smaller wheel. Glad you are up and going, summer is just around the corner and can't be beat in France, or Italy for that matter.

I had to wait for the rim before I could figure out spokes, and if you look back a few posts about that, it worked out pretty guudm most spokes are just right, couple close to top, but not through, couple a little lower, some of that is imperfections in manufacuring of rim/hub, couple spokes may have been cut different too, I am only talking about 1mm up or down

Good point 07 Prius, having the rim on hand to configure exact ERD is very importante. I can guess and figure spokes on the long side, but that requires grinding and stuff I reall don't like to do after truing.

Rick

 

[pucksterpete]

Damn Pete, your build came out great. How do you like the acceleration now? Should be a bit better with that smaller wheel. Glad you are up and going, summer is just around the corner and can't be beat in France, or Italy for that matter.

Thanks to you!!! Yes, she is quicker & A LOT cooler, that's bee the biggest change. I can't remember what I have the controller set on amps & battery for, but she use to get pretty hot with the 26" on. Rain Rain Rain go away!!! Gives me time to learn that getto truing101 you told me about

Pete

 

[2007blueprius]

about grinding them off, I have had it with bike spokes poking through, those holmes spokes are different I think, they wont protude for some reason, I'm no expert so I could not say why, but I have tried it off the wheel, and once the spoke reaches the top, that is it it wont go any further, I have a few extra you made me curious since you brought it up several times I'll double check.

also I believe the Holmes nipples are more like 12 mm not the 18 you mentioned before, for my build I cut back aprox 2mm ising the circumference measurement and ebikes.ca calculator, and it was about perfect, 1 mil shorter would have been better, 2 wont hurt nothing either, we can debate it all day but in the end when its all laced and starts to tighten and finds its seat, especially if doing a washer build like I did, on my next one I'd be probably going 3-4 mm shorter than what the calculator came up with. they may be a bit on the short side initially but over time they strech just right.

Again this is my unofficial opinion I am not a master wheel builder by any means.

George

 

[Rix]

about grinding them off, I have had it with bike spokes poking through, those holmes spokes are different I think, they wont protude for some reason, I'm no expert so I could not say why, but I have tried it off the wheel, and once the spoke reaches the top, that is it it wont go any further, I have a few extra you made me curious since you brought it up several times I'll double check.

also I believe the Holmes nipples are more like 12 mm not the 18 you mentioned before, for my build I cut back aprox 2mm ising the circumference measurement and ebikes.ca calculator, and it was about perfect, 1 mil shorter would have been better, 2 wont hurt nothing either, we can debate it all day but in the end when its all laced and starts to tighten and finds its seat, especially if doing a washer build like I did, on my next one I'd be probably going 3-4 mm shorter than what the calculator came up with. they may be a bit on the short side initially but over time they strech just right.
Again this is my unofficial opinion I am not a master wheel builder by any means.

George

Yah George, your opinion and mine are the same. 2mm short is no big deal, 3-4mm short is okay because of stretch and taking set. This is why I like the longer 18mm nipples. Allows for more margin of error. Here is a pic of the Bomber. Got a 19x1.4 rim on the front courtesy of volt Riders and the 18x1.4 I laced up. Probably one of the toughest ebikes setups that can be pedaled around.

Rick

 

[Obiwan007]

Hey Rix, that bike looks AWSOME, you have played around with every tire/rim size known to man and finally came up with IMHO the perfect combo for looks, performance and durability. That landscape looks like home to me...I miss the desert. Obiwan

 

[Rix]

Hey Rix, that bike looks AWSOME, you have played around with every tire/rim size known to man and finally came up with IMHO the perfect combo for looks, performance and durability. That landscape looks like home to me...I miss the desert. Obiwan

Thanks Obiwan, Yes I played around with wheel sizes on the rear looking for the perfect combo. Out of the 17, 18, and 19 I have tried so far, the 18 is proving to be the best, if runninging small trials tires such as the SR241 I swear by are concerned. Got a slight mechanical adavantage in thrust over the 19, and looks a little better than the 17 on the Bomber. Problem is, the only knobby tires offered in 18 are big 110/100x18 tires such as what are found on the KTM XCF 250. With the 17 and 19, I could run a kids motorcycle front wheel knobby which isn't much wider than the 24x3.00 Razorbacks. So for total viable tire options, the 17 and 19 are better, but as long as I can get 18mc rims and trials tires in the 2.75 - 3.00 inch range like the SR241, I will run 18 on the rear from here on out with any build I have.

Rick

 

[Dark Knight]

Rick - you're bomber certainly is looking the goods - really flash!

So...you'll stick with an MC rim and tire up front? There are (obviously) many different opinions around that. Personally I think I'm going to start with 19 MC wheels front and back and then go from there... Shouldn't be too much trouble to change the front from any MTB rim if desired and part of the reason I wanted to try lacing my own wheel(s) is so that I could try different options without forking out muchas cashus everytime I wanted to try something out.

Gonna do some reading tonight and then may come back to you lads with a couple of potential clarifications...

 

[Rix]

Rick - you're bomber certainly is looking the goods - really flash!

So...you'll stick with an MC rim and tire up front? There are (obviously) many different opinions around that. Personally I think I'm going to start with 19 MC wheels front and back and then go from there... Shouldn't be too much trouble to change the front from any MTB rim if desired and part of the reason I wanted to try lacing my own wheel(s) is so that I could try different options without forking out muchas cashus everytime I wanted to try something out.

Gonna do some reading tonight and then may come back to you lads with a couple of potential clarifications...

Yah the MC will stay on the front. Its heavy though. The MC on the front does work great off road, better than the MTB, but at the price of the increased weight, can't say its worth it for sure. The rear is a different story, I wouldn't run anything else on the rear ever again but a MC rim and tire. I could change back on the front, as I still have the stock wheel and rim. But, I got something else in the works, and when that comes to light, the Bomber will be going to my Dad. He loves it the way it is and doesn't want me to change the front out.

Rick

 

[2007blueprius]

well boys and girls, look at what craigslist yield tonite.

I had already ordered a 80/90x21 but it's on back order so I got bored well



View attachment 4



I actually got a set for those interested in smaller rims



now my funky scale puts the 21 at a little over 7 lbs, the 18 at 11, lots more meat and width despite the diameter

and the question of the day



View attachment 1

now I was looking for something with a more road friendly pattern, a slick would have been fine, but most of those were heavy, this has a contour of a slick with some large grooves cut leaving behind large knobs, I AM NO OFFROADER BUT THE RIDER THAT TRIED THEM DID NOT LIKE THEM so for dirt tracks and lots of power they may not have good grip for an ebike it will do good

the 80/90 I ordered is supposed to be even lighter, with my earlier weigh ins the new wheel weighed as much as the original with tire, so I am looking at about a 9 lbs penalty, counting tube and all

 

[Mammalian04]

But, I got something else in the works, and when that comes to light, the Bomber will be going to my Dad. He loves it the way it is and doesn't want me to change the front out.

Rick

If you are giving up that good looking Bomber, I am really interested in what is in the works. Care to bring the "idea" to light?

 

[Dlogic]

This is one of the best threads ever. Congrats guys on all the vital info that has gathered here.
Just had to write this down.

Looks like bicycle tires are becoming extinct here on ES. May the e-force be with us forever!

 

[Rix]

This is one of the best threads ever. Congrats guys on all the vital info that has gathered here.
Just had to write this down.

Looks like bicycle tires are becoming extinct here on ES. May the e-force be with us forever!

Yep, it does seem that way. I know there have been guys that have ran MC tires and rim on ebikes before, but it seems more popular now and is continuing to pick up momentum. I spoke with Gary from PW racing on the phone not long ago. He said I was the first guy that I contacted him for lacing a rim to a hub motor back in summer 2012, now he gets close to a hundred emails a month about it. So yah, it seems to be getting more and more popular.

Rick

 

[Dlogic]

I totally agree, ever since i´ve laced up those 18 inch rims using Heidenau tires the bike rides like a dream. So plush, smooth and with total control.

With all that power we have available these days it´s the best option there is.

 

[2007blueprius]

ahhh fudge I am itching, I havent found some time to mess with mine a bit and I have yet to fit it on the frame, but I can tell you this much, I only have a 1000w hub and to throw it on a plain MTB is a bit scary, at figure maybe 30mph a decent pothole will turn those rims into figure 8s, a smaller bedelec like EU legal sure, any larger I would not do it any other way,

 

[Rix]

Yep. My initial conversion to a motorcycle rim was out of necessity. I was tired of flatting every or every other ride. Would agree that on low powered ebikes a qaulity MTB rim is fine, but pushing power and speed, light MC rims and tires are a better option, not just for durability purposes, but safer.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

Curious, What do you guys think is the threshold where switching up is worth it? 30mph/48kph? 35mph/56kph? More? Less?

 

[GCinDC]

Curious, What do you guys think is the threshold where switching up is worth it? 30mph/48kph? 35mph/56kph? More? Less?

great Q.

i was ok on 40mph w/ hookworms, but i didn't know how good an MC tire would feel.. but for me personally:

speed: 45mph+
weight: 75lb + ebike
flats: 3+/yr
braking: hard braking nec
jumps w/ above weight: 2'+

 

[GiantEV]

I'd say it's time to switch the rear out when you're tired of pinch flats, flats from thorns, or your bicycle tires are wearing out quickly.

Lots of downhill guys go very fast (60mph+) on bicycle tires, and some moped tires like the one I have on my 19" rim is only rated for 30mph, so speed may not be as big of a factor as wear and puncture resistance.

 

[Kent]

Curious, What do you guys think is the threshold where switching up is worth it? 30mph/48kph? 35mph/56kph? More? Less?

My original Crystalite wheel was self-destructing so for me it was decision time.

Well alot of 48v bikes push 28-30 mph depending. Personally, I went over to 19" mtc wheels and tires when I starting running 72v and found potholes to be a whole different reality at 38 as opposed to 28 mph.

Of course there are a million different variables-road surface, riding conditions, average speed, etc.

Here in Vermont, potholes and frost heaves are king. Its a royal pia to always be getting flats and broken spokes!

 

[wingsuit]

after reading every post in this thread to try and find my answer, I still have minor questions surrounding washers.

first: my gear
19x1.4 prowheel yamaha playbike rim (hole diam 6.2mm)
13g sapim spokes
oversize nipple( nipple body 5mm wid, nipple head 7.5mm wide, nipple length 14mm)

Right now I'm doing my front wheel spoke length calcs and come across this question when dealing with nipples.

the hole in my rim is just over 6.2mm, the body of the nipple is 5mm, and the head of the nipple is 7.5mm

everyone says mx rims NEED washers. is this playbike rim considered mx? the rim hole diameter is smaller than initially described in this thread.

basically my question is: is the force on the nipple so great that a 7.5mm nipple head is in danger of deforming to fit through a 6.2mm opening? and that's why they are needed? basically a safety margin for just in case?

when I fit by hand it seems there is no way in hell that nipple would fit through that hole(even with no washer), but maybe I'm not accounting for the forces in play. Or do I not have to worry as much for the front wheel, and put washers on the rear when I lace my cromotor to these rims?

thanks