19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[richdeloup]

for those of us here in the states, kindly tell us what the rating system is in europe that makes them "road legal" and when are they required? Are they inspected once mounted and if so, why?

Inspected both at initial test and if ever pulled over by the police. £5k fine and 6 points on licence if not road legal. (12points is a driving ban)

From Wiki
All tires sold for road use in Europe after July 1997 must carry an E-mark.
An (upper case) "E" indicates that the tire is certified to comply with the dimensional, performance and marking requirements of ECE regulation 30. A (lower case) "e" indicates that the tire is certified to comply with the dimensional, performance and marking requirements of Directive 92/23/EEC. The number in the circle or rectangle denotes the country code of the government that granted the type approval. The last number outside the circle or rectangle is the number of the type approval certificate issued for that particular tire size and type.

From another site

What are the differences between a motorcycle racing tyre and a road motorcycle tyre?

Not a lot at all and the technology is transferred directly between the two most of the time. It’s a question of tuning the tyre to respond to a different product requirement. Technology such as Dunlop’s MultiTread compound has transferred directly from the track to the road.

So it looks like 'road legal' tyres have just been put through a test in order to comply to certain standards.

I'm interested in 'road legal' as I wish to register my bikes and therefore its a requirement at the registration test to have the 'e' mark on them.

 

[Kent]

Thanks for that. Be sure to give us a build thread when you get to that stage.

There have been a couple members from Europe and at least one from Australia who went through getting their builds inspected and officially "legal" and plated and by all accounts, has been bloody hell.

When I got mine inspected in order to get registered, yes they checked for tire and wheel rating markings (DOT).

 

[richdeloup]

 

[richdeloup]

There have been a couple members from Europe and at least one from Australia who went through getting their builds inspected and officially "legal" and plated and by all accounts, has been bloody hell.

Yep its an interesting one in the UK. Now that we are all governed by EU laws, they are trying to standardise the regulations. The UK has a history of people building wacky racers/kit cars/ toilets on wheels etc and registering them. Apparently the UK government refused to give this privilege up, for now anyhow.

It is still a headache and what they test for doesnt really make much sense. I.e they are really big on the brake levers having the correct sized rounded ball ends, in case of ploughing into someone, makes sense, however they don't test to much on general construction of the vehicle.
Once finished with my carbon build, ill be putting that through test and would be amazed if they pass a carbon framed power house but you never know?

 

[richdeloup]

Tires 2.50 in width are borderline and may or may not be DOT rated as they are considered moped tires and are not in your usual motorcycle size charts. Of course 2.25 and 2.0 are strictly moped tires and are not DOT rated.

That's one difference between DOT rated and E rated, I think that in Europe every road going tyre has to be E rated no matter what the size.

 

[Rix]

anybody know the effective spoke diameter for a pro-wheel 19x1.85 rim?

Should be around 470 mm with 18x6.4mm spoke nipples. You may have to grind a couple spokes after truing. My 19x1.85 Tegasko was 470mm which is what I base the data on. You really should consider a 19x1.4 rim, it will be up to two pounds lighter over the 19x1.85 wide rim, and still way overkill for any ebike that can be pedaled. Edit, checked my notes, the Tegasko was 469mm, and I had to chop spokes after truing that one.

 

[Dougt]

anybody know the effective spoke diameter for a pro-wheel 19x1.85 rim?

Should be around 470 mm with 18x6.4mm spoke nipples. You may have to grind a couple spokes after truing. My 19x1.85 Tegasko was 470mm which is what I base the data on. You really should consider a 19x1.4 rim, it will be up to two pounds lighter over the 19x1.85 wide rim, and still way overkill for any ebike that can be pedaled. Edit, checked my notes, the Tegasko was 469mm, and I had to chop spokes after truing that one.

Thanks, Rix. 18x6.4mm nipples seems too small for my wheel. The nipple holes in the rim are 8.1mm diameter. I'm guess your ERD is about right though. I plan to buy the spokes from Buchanan and the aluminum nipples from either Buchanan or Prowheel (prowheel cheaper and they are available anodized to various colors, but threads may not be compatible with Buchanan spokes since there is no real standard with MC spokes). The reason I got a 1.85 rim was that is what the tire manufacturer recommends. I don't really care too much about weight...the bike will be a pig regardless...just need to add more power Haven't decided what gauge spokes yet, either going to be 9 or 10ga on the back. 8ga is just ridiculous, and if the spoke angles aren't right, will make tensioning a pain, since they will need to bend slightly at nipple...making it more likely have to re-tension a few times as the wheel goes over bumps and the spokes self-bend to the correct angle.

For the front wheel I plan to get 19x1.6 from Holmes with associated 13ga spokes and moped nipples. I may go 1.4 there, but that seems too far under tire manufacturer recommendations.

 

[Rix]

10g, 9g, or 8g will work for you. Here two different wheels builds I did for my old Bomber and Fighter. The Figter has 8g spokes, the bomber has 10g spokes. BtW, they are both running the 18x6.4mm nipples. The tegasko also had 8mm spoke holes in the rim, the nipple heads were more than big enough to work though.

 

[sn0wchyld]

quick question, and appologies if its already answered and burried somewhere in this thread, but...

whats the aproximate weight of peoples 19" rims, tires and tubes? Just trying to compare to 21"mx and normal 26"bike to decide if the extra weight is worth it...

cheers.

 

[Rix]

quick question, and appologies if its already answered and burried somewhere in this thread, but...

whats the aproximate weight of peoples 19" rims, tires and tubes? Just trying to compare to 21"mx and normal 26"bike to decide if the extra weight is worth it...

cheers.

Snowchild, can you specify the size of the 19 rim you are asking about? I have laced both the 19x1.4 prowheel and 19x1.85 as well as a 18x1.40 generic aluminum rim and 18x1.40 tegasko rim which are in both the pics above. According to my bathroom scales, there is a 2 pound difference betweent eh 19x1.40 Prowheel and 19x1.85 prohweel rim. On this scale, my 1.40 weighs just over the 2.5 pound mark, the 1.85 wieghs righ at the 4.5 mark, and the stock Bomber rim weighs just under the 1.5 pound mark. Of course my bathroom scales are not precise to the gram, but are approximate.

 

[sn0wchyld]

quick question, and appologies if its already answered and burried somewhere in this thread, but...

whats the aproximate weight of peoples 19" rims, tires and tubes? Just trying to compare to 21"mx and normal 26"bike to decide if the extra weight is worth it...

cheers.

Snowchild, can you specify the size of the 19 rim you are asking about? I have laced both the 19x1.4 prowheel and 19x1.85 as well as a 18x1.40 generic aluminum rim and 18x1.40 tegasko rim which are in both the pics above. According to my bathroom scales, there is a 2 pound difference betweent eh 19x1.40 Prowheel and 19x1.85 prohweel rim. On this scale, my 1.40 weighs just over the 2.5 pound mark, the 1.85 wieghs righ at the 4.5 mark, and the stock Bomber rim weighs just under the 1.5 pound mark. Of course my bathroom scales are not precise to the gram, but are approximate.

Cheers rix,
is that just the rims, no rubber attached right? could you weigh a 19" tire or 2 (if you have more than 1 type?)?
and im not looking at any particular width, just trying to get some ballpark #'s to see if going to 21" is a big jump in weight or not vs 19"mx and 26" bike. I'm looking at some 21" rims that are about 3.5lb (1.6kg), so looks like little to no difference there. Tires ive found are all 3kg or above though, so kinda beefy as rotating mass - about 2.5-3kg more in total than a beefy 26" bike wheel+rim.

 

[richdeloup]

Anyone interested in lightest possible way of using motorcycle tyres. This below is the lightest combo I've found at 2800g, including rotor, moped tube and a Mitas tyre, which isn't the best but is certainly lightweight and a hell of a lot better than most bicycle tyres.

 

[chucho]

Anyone interested in lightest possible way of using motorcycle tyres. This below is the lightest combo I've found at 2800g, including rotor, moped tube and a Mitas tyre, which isn't the best but is certainly lightweight and a hell of a lot better than most bicycle tyres.

What type of moped tube are you using? Any link to it?

 

[richdeloup]

This sort of thing from the UK.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-HEAVY-DUTY-INNER-TUBE-2-50-2-75-18-18-RIM-TAPE-MULTI-PACK-/151420787605?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item234161db95

Tried a 2.75-3.0 first but too much rubber, especially around the valve for the tyre to seat properly with my Mitas 2,25/18's.
2.5-2.75 tube fits fine.

 

[Rix]

quick question, and appologies if its already answered and burried somewhere in this thread, but...

whats the aproximate weight of peoples 19" rims, tires and tubes? Just trying to compare to 21"mx and normal 26"bike to decide if the extra weight is worth it...

cheers.

Snowchild, can you specify the size of the 19 rim you are asking about? I have laced both the 19x1.4 prowheel and 19x1.85 as well as a 18x1.40 generic aluminum rim and 18x1.40 tegasko rim which are in both the pics above. According to my bathroom scales, there is a 2 pound difference betweent eh 19x1.40 Prowheel and 19x1.85 prohweel rim. On this scale, my 1.40 weighs just over the 2.5 pound mark, the 1.85 wieghs righ at the 4.5 mark, and the stock Bomber rim weighs just under the 1.5 pound mark. Of course my bathroom scales are not precise to the gram, but are approximate.

Cheers rix,
is that just the rims, no rubber attached right? could you weigh a 19" tire or 2 (if you have more than 1 type?)?
and im not looking at any particular width, just trying to get some ballpark #'s to see if going to 21" is a big jump in weight or not vs 19"mx and 26" bike. I'm looking at some 21" rims that are about 3.5lb (1.6kg), so looks like little to no difference there. Tires ive found are all 3kg or above though, so kinda beefy as rotating mass - about 2.5-3kg more in total than a beefy 26" bike wheel+rim.

Do you one better, I will weigh my 80x100/21 knobby tire and my 2.75-19 VRM 021 and give the weight difference. That should help with figuring out potential weight gains over a 26MTB tire.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

I am excited to tell you all that my build is finally done. I absolutely, positively, LOVE the M/C tires and wheels front and back!!!!

The bike just feels solid with them. It tracks smoothly and straight as an arrow. They grip like a bitch on a sugardaddy's arm and inspire confidence while turning.

Did I mention that I love them? Out of all of the questionable decisions I made during my build, this was not one of them. The wheels change the entire characteristic of the bike. The twitchiness that can be present on bicycle tires is gone.

I am glad I went with the IRC GP1 tires. They are heavy and still give the motorcycle feel to the bike but are a little over 2 pounds lighter than the shinkos. Secondly, because they are 2 ply instead of 4 ply, they are easier to install and remove.

I just got back from the maiden voyage and took some pictures of it.

 

[Rix]

Choopakabra,
Hands down, this is one of the nicest and cleanest home build conversions I have seen. I have seen a lot. What a fantastic looking machine. Can't remember but you mentioned you were running a geared hubbie, What was it?

 

[chucho]

Choopakabra,
Hands down, this is one of the nicest and cleanest home build conversions I have seen. I have seen a lot. What a fantastic looking machine. Can't remember but you mentioned you were running a geared hubbie, What was it?

+1 Love your build
Love that frame for ebikes it is a pity is it so rare in EU

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

Choopakabra,
Hands down, this is one of the nicest and cleanest home build conversions I have seen. I have seen a lot. What a fantastic looking machine. Can't remember but you mentioned you were running a geared hubbie, What was it?

Hi Rix, it is a Mac 6T and the follow-up plan is to put another one in the front. that is next spring or summer though. I am a bit tired of the build process so I intend to just enjoy this for a while.

thanks Chucho.

 

[Offroader]

I am excited to tell you all that my build is finally done. I absolutely, positively, LOVE the M/C tires and wheels front and back!!!!

The bike just feels solid with them. It tracks smoothly and straight as an arrow. They grip like a bitch on a sugardaddy's arm and inspire confidence while turning.

Did I mention that I love them? Out of all of the questionable decisions I made during my build, this was not one of them. The wheels change the entire characteristic of the bike. The twitchiness that can be present on bicycle tires is gone.

I am glad I went with the IRC GP1 tires. They are heavy and still give the motorcycle feel to the bike but are a little over 2 pounds lighter than the shinkos. Secondly, because they are 2 ply instead of 4 ply, they are easier to install and remove.

I just got back from the maiden voyage and took some pictures of it.

Are they really more light weight than the Shinko 241? I will be surprised if they are. I see they offer a 3.5x17" and maybe that would be a possibility for an even fatter tire on my raptor than the 3.00x17 I use.

Could you tell me the size you used front and back and if you know the weight of the tires?

Thanks.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

I am excited to tell you all that my build is finally done. I absolutely, positively, LOVE the M/C tires and wheels front and back!!!!

The bike just feels solid with them. It tracks smoothly and straight as an arrow. They grip like a bitch on a sugardaddy's arm and inspire confidence while turning.

Did I mention that I love them? Out of all of the questionable decisions I made during my build, this was not one of them. The wheels change the entire characteristic of the bike. The twitchiness that can be present on bicycle tires is gone.

I am glad I went with the IRC GP1 tires. They are heavy and still give the motorcycle feel to the bike but are a little over 2 pounds lighter than the shinkos. Secondly, because they are 2 ply instead of 4 ply, they are easier to install and remove.

I just got back from the maiden voyage and took some pictures of it.

Are they really more light weight than the Shinko 241? I will be surprised if they are. I see they offer a 3.5x17" and maybe that would be a possibility for an even fatter tire on my raptor than the 3.00x17 I use.

Could you tell me the size you used front and back and if you know the weight of the tires?

Thanks.

The wheels are 19 inch and the tires are 19 x 2.75 F and R. The IRC GP119 x 2.75 and weighs in at 5.43 lbs. I think the shinkos are 7. Not really a big deal but a 2 ply is a lot easier to mount than a 4 ply and since you are talking about a 17 inch instead of a 19 inch, the mounting gets harder the smaller the rim so it may actually be more significantly easier to mount. These were barely more difficult to mount than bicycle tires. I also want to keep the bike under 100lbs so that weight savings will allow me an addition 2P 14S on my batteries since I use 18650s

I got them at dennis kirk and the weights that they list are usually pretty close. That 17 x 3.5 is heavier though and is listed at 9 lbs, the 17 x 4.6 is listed at 11 lbs and the 5.1 is listed at 13 lbs.

Now that I know they have a 5.1 inch wide tire, I may have to figure out a battery solution for a Garyfisher King fisher I have kicking around in the basement. I know it will fit on that bike. Damn! I said I wanted a break from building and you have my brain whirling with possibilities.

 

[Ch00paKabrA]

no problem Offroader but I think you may be surprised. Here is an example: I also have some 24 x 3 bicycle tires with flabby single wall construction. they are electra fatti-o tires and tubes. they feel like they weigh nothing. I weighed them and they are 3 pounds. The shinkos are heavier but it's all good. The IRC GP1 is the lightest 19 x 2.75 I could find.

Look in this thread around April of last year, we discussed the weights of the different tires and I think someone weighed the shinkos. I could be wrong though so there is always that.

Edit, you had me wondering so I found the posts. this is a reply to one of my posts from Rix and it sums it up neatly:

As Promised!

I received the IRC GP1 19 X 2.75 Tire from Dennis Kirk today. For those paying attention, the issue with this tire was that certain nay-sayers who will remain nameless refused to believed that the weight of the tire was only 5.43 lbs for the 19 inch and just over 6 lbs for the 21 inch. There was talk about how these sites just incorrectly cut and paste... blah blah blah (just kidding :lol: )

[I don't know how much the Shinko 244 weighs but since it is a 4 ply tire it is probably between 8 and 10 lbs. It would be good to know so if someone has a Shinko 244, please weigh it for us.

I also use electra fatty-o 24 x 3.00 bicycle tires on another build so I compared the two tires. I was worried that the IRC would have a flimsy sidewall like the bicycle tire but it does not. It is firm and keeps its shape while uninflated. The IRC GP1 19 x 2.75 and the fatty-o 24 x 3.00 appear to have the same outside diameter so they are just a little smaller than your average 26 in. bicycle tire. The fatty-o is 1.2 kg.

I haven't mounted it yet as I don't have my motor yet but hopefully it will be here sometime this week. I like it and I ordered another one for the front.

I hope this helps those who were curious.

Before I sent Jay the 2.75x19 SR241 and SR244, I weighed them. The 244 was just over 7# while the 241 was 6.5#. The SR241 was almost 1 pound lighter I rememered. Keep in mind that I weighed them on the bathroom scale, So I know I'm close but it may not be exact.

Hope that helps

 

[ridethelightning]

hi guys

does anyone have experience with the actual width of tyres when inflated?

im after a 2.5" x18" moped tyre for a DH bike, but there isnt a lot of room for error in the rear triangle so its got to be exactly 2.5 "

something like this-


ofcourse i could get a 2.25 to be on the safe side but id rather not..

 

[chucho]

I would love to be in USA to buy holms 19 pro-wheel but buying from Spain with shipping and taxes plus the dolar/euro change know is making me think of buying of another source in Europe. Anyone bought black 19 rims from Europe similar to the ones holms offer?

 

[richdeloup]

does anyone have experience with the actual width of tyres when inflated?

im after a 2.5" x18" moped tyre for a DH bike, but there isnt a lot of room for error in the rear triangle so its got to be exactly 2.5 "

something like this-

Heidenau K40 2.5-18 45S

View attachment 1

One that is actually slightly smaller at 2.33, although it is fitted on a fairly narrow rim and i did squeeze the callipers in a bit to take the photo but would def fit a 2.5 rear triangle.
EDIT, Didn't realise that the tyre had a puncture, so was half deflated when measured. New actal measurement is 2.53"