19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[Rix]

Yours has more motor on it but yah, very similar set up.

 

[Rix]

So Emmett and I have ran into problems lacing the TC3065s to MC rims. The narrow distance on each flange group doesn't correspond with the spoke angle coming out of the rim. The rim's spoke holes angle the opposite direction as the spokes on every other spoke on the flange group. To get around this, I ordered some extra big nipples for my 10G spokes. Then I ground the angled bevel on the inside of the rims flat, then I enlarged the spoke holes for the bigger nipples. When I did this, I just drilled straight down, eliminating the angle all together. The spoke angles on my this wheel build will look alot like Stealth's rear wheel builds as the spoke will naturally bend from tension when truing at the nipple. I think it will work, haven't recommended this yet as I am not sure if the outcome will be successful. Wait until you guys see the horsesh!t modifications I did to my rim. Ruined one 18x1.4 rim while figuring this out. My Dad is having the same issue with the TC4080. ///Cross posted on the Stealth Ebike thread///

 

[markz]

How can you use regular bicycle spokes with a motorcycle rim?

I got huge holes in my rim so washers will be a must. But what about the nipples, I got about 5 or 6mm holes.

 

[Lurkin]

massive washers. I would be worried about them shifting under load unless you have pretty high tension on them.

Not much point through, if you are planning to use bicycle spokes, then there will be a weight saving going to a DH rim. I.e. the question becomes - will you actually get the strength benefit of an MC rim without the same degree of tension and spoke strength as it would be with MC spokes?

For the amount of mucking about you are going to go to, I would be looking for a DH rim online... you can usually get these pretty cheap with a 50 pack of BMX 14g spokes - win.

 

[Rix]

Or you mod the rim, and get spokes with extra large nipples :? Like I did.

 

[macribs]

Or you mod the rim, and get spokes with extra large nipples :? Like I did.

Is there anyone that sells such spokes anymore? Seems the #1 supplier of moped rims and spokes, holmeshobbies, are not selling wheel stuff anymore. Or at least so I read in some thread in here. Worth double checking of course but if he don't sell those spokes anymore how else is?

 

[markz]

Looks like there is no money to be made from rims and spokes.
Be cool to get a nipple that can thread onto a 14 guage spoke, but hiave a wide end to t.

 

[Rix]

Yah, 13 or 14g spokes with oversized nipples are hard to come buy. I think Kinaye can do this, http://kinaye-motorsports.myshopify.com/

 

[Rix]

Got my 18x1.4 rim laced up to a TC4080, going on my Bomber, this wheel/motor combo is 12ibs lighter than the current rim/motor combo I am running. Taking the Bomber to the next level. Fighter rim with TC3065 to follow. To make this happen, I had to mod the shit out of the rims spoke holes, ruined one rim figuring out how to make this work. When Emmett gets his mounted, compare the photos of his to mine and everyone will see what I am talking about.

 

[ecycler]

this wheel/motor combo is 12ibs lighter than the current rim/motor combo I am running.

Wow. What rim/motor were you running previously?! That is going to feel quite different in air the next time you huck something big!!! 8)

 

[Rix]

this wheel/motor combo is 12ibs lighter than the current rim/motor combo I am running.

Wow. What rim/motor were you running previously?! That is going to feel quite different in air the next time you huck something big!!! 8)

I am lacing 2 rims, the rim in the pic above is with the TC4080 laced up to a 18X1.40 rim I ordered from a County I can pronounce the name of. The above wheel/rim/hub motor combo is replacing a Clyte 5404 with a 19" MC rim.

 

[Offroader]

Looks like there is no money to be made from rims and spokes.
Be cool to get a nipple that can thread onto a 14 guage spoke, but hiave a wide end to t.

There is usually no money to be made from anything hobby related. Nobody wants to pay a lot, everybody wants to do it themselves. You then have group buys.
Then you have china and now eastern europe who will do it for a lot less. Seems like you can now order hub motors already laced from companies.


Just isn't worth doing. I am surprised about Holmes hobbies because he was selling a lot of bare rims. Not sure why he wouldn't just continue to sell them. They are cheap to ship and he sells them for probably 3x his cost now at $120.

$120 is honestly a bit steep, they used to be $100 and even $80 he was selling them at one point if I remember correctly.

For $120, just buy a regular 1.4 prowheel, it will be lighter and just deal with the bad spoke angles, it isn't really a problem.

For Spokes and nipples, order 10 gauge from Buchanan, they will cut them to your exact size. Stay away from 12 gauge spokes, they will break easily, I broke like 12 of them one time when my rear tire fell into a ditch, I wound up bending the rim also.

 

[Rix]

Looks like there is no money to be made from rims and spokes.
Be cool to get a nipple that can thread onto a 14 guage spoke, but hiave a wide end to t.

There is usually no money to be made from anything hobby related. Nobody wants to pay a lot, everybody wants to do it themselves. You then have group buys.
Then you have china and now eastern europe who will do it for a lot less. Seems like you can now order hub motors already laced from companies.


Just isn't worth doing. I am surprised about Holmes hobbies because he was selling a lot of bare rims. Not sure why he wouldn't just continue to sell them. They are cheap to ship and he sells them for probably 3x his cost now at $120.

$120 is honestly a bit steep, they used to be $100 and even $80 he was selling them at one point if I remember correctly.

For $120, just buy a regular 1.4 prowheel, it will be lighter and just deal with the bad spoke angles, it isn't really a problem.

For Spokes and nipples, order 10 gauge from Buchanan, they will cut them to your exact size. Stay away from 12 gauge spokes, they will break easily, I broke like 12 of them one time when my rear tire fell into a ditch, I wound up bending the rim also.

There is a need for 13g spokes with oversized nipples, for folks that want to lace a MC rim to a MTB hub, this is the best way to do it. Hell, maybe 14G spokes with oversized nipples. I am toying with the idea of getting a commercial grade spoke cutter and stocking 13G units and 10G with the same size 6.4mmx18mm nipples, and make them to order. Problem is the supplier of quality stuff is steep, I found stainless steel nipples for as low as 52 cents each, but to make a any profit, I would have to charge more than cost, most manufactures charge around $2 to $3 or for a nipple and spoke, but then a decent nipple and spoke can be had from China for around a buck including shipping. I think thats what is killing HH.

 

[Rix]

Here are my latest wheel builds. Like I said before, this was a big PITA, had to modify both rims, change spoke nipple angles to get the MC rims to work with the TC4080 and TC3065. Hey Emmett, hurry and post your TC3065 laced to a 19MC rim so people will know whats going on.

 

[teslanv]

Yah, 13 or 14g spokes with oversized nipples are hard to come buy. I think Kinaye can do this, http://kinaye-motorsports.myshopify.com/

Unfortunately, these are difficult to source. We used to get 13G and 14G moped nipples from Holmes Hobbies, but they have been out of stock for some time, and no word on when they will have more.

We are now looking at having some custom Moto rims made with smaller holes for standard bicycle spokes.

The other alternative is to use a washer with a standard bicycle spoke.

 

[Rix]

Yah, 13 or 14g spokes with oversized nipples are hard to come buy. I think Kinaye can do this, http://kinaye-motorsports.myshopify.com/

Unfortunately, these are difficult to source. We used to get 13G and 14G moped nipples from Holmes Hobbies, but they have been out of stock for some time, and no word on when they will have more.

We are now looking at having some custom Moto rims made with smaller holes for standard bicycle spokes.

The other alternative is to use a washer with a standard bicycle spoke.

Thats a great idea, I would go with 19x1.4 MC rims and 21x1.6 MC rims for front options. A 19 on the front even running a 16 on the rear looks good. And the 21x1.6 will appease the bigger wheel/tire crowd. Whats your thoughts?

 

[Offroader]

why would you go with a 21x1.6 and not a 21x1.4 on the front? That .2 makes a huge difference in weight., could be around 30% more weight in the rim and you don't need a wide front rim and tire.

 

[Rix]

why would you go with a 21x1.6 and not a 21x1.4 on the front? That .2 makes a huge difference in weight., could be around 30% more weight in the rim and you don't need a wide front rim and tire.

Because they don't make a 21x1.4 rim for dirt bikes.

///Edit/// Let me rephrase this, I can't find an aluminum 21x1.40 rim. Can find steel rims though, they would be pounds heavier than say an Excel Lite 21x1.60 rim.

 

[Mr Lowbank]

I have a Email form HH today saying

"Unfortunately, our 12 gauge moped nipples are out of stock indefinitely and we no longer are cutting custom spokes because our machine broke"

The spokes I have been using from HH with the crystalyte x5 and the Prowheel racing 19x1.4 rims are the 11/12 gauge (3 -2.7mm) Elbow type: 90 degree 124mm long spokes with 6mm diameter moped nipples.

I also fell down a ditch and broke 12 of these spokes they sheared off at the J where they are 11 gauge.

So I'm looking for more Spokes what are the best sources and what size (thickness) are you using?

I didn't mind the 11/12 gauge as I didn't have to drill out the holes on the X5 motor and they bent a bit easier at the nipple if not lined up. if I go bigger, what extra mods do you do.

Cheers

 

[markz]

Be best to buy a spoke reamer and do it yourself. It seems hard to find the right spokes in the right size. I am lucky to find some bicycle spokes, but wonder about the nipple action.

 

[markz]

Anyway, I guess the original question I am asking is, can a double walled bicycle rim be as strong or stronger than a single walled motorcycle rim, such as the rims I linked to.

On a strength to weight ratio basis, all halfway decent bicycle rims are stronger than motorcycle rims. The thing about motorcycle rims that you can see as an advantage or a disadvantage is that they weigh several times as much as bicycle rims.

A good strong bicycle rim like Origin8 DAT-PRO-65 or Alex Supra-E compares in strength to a motorcycle rim weighing maybe three times more.

Motorcycle tires are tougher than bicycle tires just on the basis of mass. Compared to bicycle tires that can have casing fabrics finer than 100tpi, rated pressures over 100 psi, and excellent strength to weight ratio, there are no "good" motorcycle tires. In every way you could say a motorcycle tire is better than a bicycle tire, a truck tire is better than a motorcycle tire. That doesn't mean you should use truck tires on your e-bike.

What about using the motorcycle rim because of spoke angle. The motorcycle rim has dimples and is angled to accomodate a large hub in a small diameter rim.

For example a 17" motorcycle rim with a MXUS 3000W motor. Put the motor in a bicycle rim and the spoke would be angled too much right?

Other then that I tend to agree with you Chalo. Buy a good bicycle rim, if your motor fits in it good.

What about using bicycle spokes on the motorcycle rim and using washers on the nipple. The downside is the nipple does sit snug, and its height is higher. Is nipple snugness a requirement?

 

[Mr Lowbank]

FluxZoom wrote:
Anyway, I guess the original question I am asking is, can a double walled bicycle rim be as strong or stronger than a single walled motorcycle rim, such as the rims I linked to.

Maybe, but don't think so, see photo on my post Sat May 31, 2014. The number one reson to go to a motorcycle rim was to stop getting pinch flats that I suffered a lot with the bicycle rim. I was also destroying the stock Bomber rims. The reson this happens is because the back wheel weighs 17kg. After installing MX rim I have never had problems with pinch flats and the rim has not fallen apart from getting smashed with the15kg motor. The number 2 thing I like about the Shinko SR241 motorcycle tyer is because of its higher profile and lower pressure you can run (I run19PSI) is gives a softer ride with all that unsprung weight.

 

[Rix]

I have a Email form HH today saying

"Unfortunately, our 12 gauge moped nipples are out of stock indefinitely and we no longer are cutting custom spokes because our machine broke"

The spokes I have been using from HH with the crystalyte x5 and the Prowheel racing 19x1.4 rims are the 11/12 gauge (3 -2.7mm) Elbow type: 90 degree 124mm long spokes with 6mm diameter moped nipples.

I also fell down a ditch and broke 12 of these spokes they sheared off at the J where they are 11 gauge.

So I'm looking for more Spokes what are the best sources and what size (thickness) are you using?

I didn't mind the 11/12 gauge as I didn't have to drill out the holes on the X5 motor and they bent a bit easier at the nipple if not lined up. if I go bigger, what extra mods do you do.

Cheers

That was a hard hit, call it a hunch, but I am guessing your rear wheel wobbled like crazy after that. As far as spokes go, go with Buchannan 10g units. Thats what i have on my Fighter and Bomber wheels. 10g spokes. I even have 8g laced up to one of my wheels. Spoke just don't brake, even if the angle an alignment are extreme.

 

[Rix]

Anyway, I guess the original question I am asking is, can a double walled bicycle rim be as strong or stronger than a single walled motorcycle rim, such as the rims I linked to]

On a strength to weight ratio basis, all halfway decent bicycle rims are stronger than motorcycle rims. The thing about motorcycle rims that you can see as an advantage or a disadvantage is that they weigh several times as much as bicycle rims.

A good strong bicycle rim like Origin8 DAT-PRO-65 or Alex Supra-E compares in strength to a motorcycle rim weighing maybe three times more.

Motorcycle tires are tougher than bicycle tires just on the basis of mass. Compared to bicycle tires that can have casing fabrics finer than 100tpi, rated pressures over 100 psi, and excellent strength to weight ratio, there are no "good" motorcycle tires. In every way you could say a motorcycle tire is better than a bicycle tire, a truck tire is better than a motorcycle tire. That doesn't mean you should use truck tires on your e-bike
What about using the motorcycle rim because of spoke angle. The motorcycle rim has dimples and is angled to accomodate a large hub in a small diameter rim.

For example a 17" motorcycle rim with a MXUS 3000W motor. Put the motor in a bicycle rim and the spoke would be angled too much right?

Other then that I tend to agree with you Chalo. Buy a good bicycle rim, if your motor fits in it good.

What about using bicycle spokes on the motorcycle rim and using washers on the nipple. The downside is the nipple does sit snug, and its height is higher. Is nipple snugness a requirement?

I disagree here, the angles aren't bad, here is a picture of my 17, 18, and 19 MC rims laced up to 5403, 5404, and 5405. The flange diameter of the 54xx is 12mm more than the MXUS. And I don't think the spoke angle is that extreme, with the MXUS, the angle difference would be less extreme.

 

[Mr Lowbank]

That was a hard hit, call it a hunch, but I am guessing your rear wheel wobbled like crazy after that. As far as spokes go, go with Buchannan 10g units. Thats what i have on my Fighter and Bomber wheels. 10g spokes. I even have 8g laced up to one of my wheels. Spoke just don't brake, even if the angle an alignment are extreme.

Bike fell down a hill and I think the side impact did the damage rim was OK. I respoked the wheel spreading the missing ones around the rim and went riding the next day. after 2 hours (not backing off much) I had another 10 or so broken spokes and was luck to make it back to camp without the wheel collapsing. couldn't have done that with a bicycle rim.