1983 Honda ATC110 Electric Conversion Project

[knightmb]

My next electric project is going to be an electric ATV. While I know there are plenty of already "all electric" ATV's out there, I figure for the price of them I could really build a much more powerful one than what is for sale for over $3K around in this country.

Basically, picked up this 1983 Honda ATC110 for $100 off of Craigslist. It works and while the body panels are a little sore for wear, it's mechanically sound. Rear wheel bearings are excellent, brakes are still good, frame in excellent condition, motor runs, etc.

It uses a 4 speed gear box with high/low settings, and of course by the pictures, uses a chain drive. I plan on removing the motor, gas tank, etc. Hope to install a torque monster of a motor (don't need top speed when riding 10 MPH through the woods) and having a smooth electric ATV. When my buddies come screaming through on their loud machines, I want to be able to stealth around with nothing but the hum of the electric motor through the woods :wink:

So, I'm here to ask for the advice of the many smart people here at the forum. I would like to keep the gear box if I can (won't know what this entails until I start breaking everything down), but what motors should I be looking at (Etek, etc?) any recommendations on power controllers? I'm set on using SLA batteries because of the weight (at least it will be an advantage in this project) so getting some good deep cycle 33AH 12 volt AGM batteries is no problem here.

The many electric ATV's that I've seen online are 800 to 1000 watt motor setups. I wouldn't mind building a 1500 watt monster if I could. Any feedback or advice is certainly welcome!

 

[xyster]

I'd like to do the same thing with a full-suspension ATV frame, so I'll be watching your progress. I remember riding a friend's Honda 110 when I was about 12. The lack of suspension was really a problem that crippled its off-road ability on anything but sand dunes. In 1984 I got a fully-suspended Yamaha 225 DX for work and play around my family's ranch. My only suggestion is to start with a better full-suspension frame. An 84-86 Honda 200-X would be another good choice that could be had for cheap.
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/epic_atv/1983_225DX_small.aspx

http://www.quadpit.com/mags/other/1986-200x.html
<img src="http://www.quadpit.com/images/mags/other/1986-200x.jpg" width="800">

 

[knightmb]

My only suggestion is to start with a better full-suspension frame.

Excellent point.
I do plan on adding suspension. The front fork is very easy to change out and the back I was going to spring load the seat. It will certainly be much different than it started, but I was looking for a good frame, wheels to start with. It might even end up being a 4 wheeler if I decide to get a little fab happy with the front

 

[Lowell]

An Etek sounds like overkill for 1500W, but the 15kW potential would make for an interesting ride through the bush.

 

[Malcolm]

Nice project!

With the weight of that machine, the rolling resistance of those tyres and the sort of terrain you'll be using this on, I'd imagine that 1500W would be way underpowered even if you do keep the gearbox. Personally I'd go for a 48V Alltrax/Etek system (but then I'm just a little biased).
At the risk of stating the obvious, I'd recommend keeping the weight as low and central as possible. Four wheels would obviously add a lot more stability. I'd also be tempted to ditch the gearbox, but as long as it doesn't compromise battery placement it could help reduce your current requirements and increase your range. It's really just a matter of how much work you want to make for yourself.

 

[Ypedal]

OH HELL YEAH !!!!!!

I love trikes !

See my ride bellow !! *( 85 250SX ! Shaft drive, Electric Start and Reverse ! ) not MY trike.. but similar.

I also have an 84 125M almost ready to go *( If you ditch the wire harness on that ATC .. Can i buy it from you .. please ? ! )

I've had an 84 Big Red, an 82 ATC200 , and i agree with X.. a suspended machine would be best

The 250R's were suspended, 250SX or BigRed, or the TriZ .. even Kawasaki made a 2 stroke with suspension trike that rocked !!!

Using one of the shaft drive trikes would allow you to use the rear diff gearing.. !!

 

[fechter]

Cool... 8)

Using the existing gears would be challenging. I think you'd have to take apart the engine and saw off the cylinder. The hole left by the cylinder would need to be covered with a plate to keep the oil in. Then it would be good to balance the crank by clamping or welding on a weight to replace the weight of the piston and crank. Then you could drive the crankshaft by the alternator end. You would also probably want to lock up the clutch if it's a centrifugal clutch.

It looks like there's enough room behind the rear axle to mount an Etek

If you did a single reduction chain from an Etek, you could probably do over 40mph. To get 10mph top speed is going to take more than you could get from a single reduction.

Another possible option would be a pair of geared MY1020 motors.

Two motors driving the same chain, or one for each wheel.
Again, you could possibly mount them behind the axle.

 

[Ypedal]

Trust me.... YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO 40 + MPH ON A 110 ATC !!!! unless you have one seriously smooth road to run on !

Balloon tires at 3 psi and no suspension is a scary combination off-road !!

 

[knightmb]

Nice project!

With the weight of that machine, the rolling resistance of those tyres and the sort of terrain you'll be using this on, I'd imagine that 1500W would be way underpowered even if you do keep the gearbox. Personally I'd go for a 48V Alltrax/Etek system (but then I'm just a little biased).
At the risk of stating the obvious, I'd recommend keeping the weight as low and central as possible. Four wheels would obviously add a lot more stability. I'd also be tempted to ditch the gearbox, but as long as it doesn't compromise battery placement it could help reduce your current requirements and increase your range. It's really just a matter of how much work you want to make for yourself.

Good point. I am trying to avoid turning this into a power monster, I would like to have a little range, hehe. It's a 110 CC Gas Motor which about the closest thing to match on scale is maybe close to only 600 watts of power. It really works just fine on that for me. I won't be going fast, just off road, so if my top speed is limited to only 30 MPH, that's perfectly fine by me.

I am tempted to ditch the gearbox after reading up on the specs of a lot of the motors online. Gears would be nice, but I have a feeling some of these electric motors won't need it unless I plan on riding up a 80 degree slope :wink:

Converting it to 4 wheels is an option I am going to pursue as well just for added stability and legality here.

 

[knightmb]

Cool... 8)

Using the existing gears would be challenging. I think you'd have to take apart the engine and saw off the cylinder. The hole left by the cylinder would need to be covered with a plate to keep the oil in. Then it would be good to balance the crank by clamping or welding on a weight to replace the weight of the piston and crank. Then you could drive the crankshaft by the alternator end. You would also probably want to lock up the clutch if it's a centrifugal clutch.

Yeah, the clutch and all that oil mess just hit me. I'm probably going to look at direct motor to wheel drive (via chain or whatever) just for that reason. I want to make this a clean machine with no "oil" to worry about.

It looks like there's enough room behind the rear axle to mount an Etek

If you did a single reduction chain from an Etek, you could probably do over 40mph. To get 10mph top speed is going to take more than you could get from a single reduction.

Another possible option would be a pair of geared MY1020 motors.

Two motors driving the same chain, or one for each wheel.
Again, you could possibly mount them behind the axle.

That's an idea, low voltage to work with and a pair of motors, I could still limp home if one of them had an issue. I've found them everywhere for about $90.00, is that about the typical price of them or do better deals await me elsewhere?

 

[knightmb]

I also have an 84 125M almost ready to go *( If you ditch the wire harness on that ATC .. Can i buy it from you .. please ? ! )

Yeah, I think I will end up taking everything off to start fresh, so anything that you want you can have for free minus shipping :wink:

 

[xyster]

It's a 110 CC Gas Motor which about the closest thing to match on scale is maybe close to only 600 watts of power. It really works just fine on that for me. I won't be going fast, just off road, so if my top speed is limited to only 30 MPH, that's perfectly fine by me.

I don't recall the little Honda 110 in stock form going anywhere near 30mph -- maybe 20mph, probably high-teens. I couldn't find the horsepower rating, but the ATC 90 is said to be 7hp, the 250R 38hp.
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/512/releases/2380

I remember my Yamaha 225 going about 25mph -- 30mph after I replaced the 24mm carb with a 30mm carb and the stock pipe with an unmuffled one. I'm guessing it was about 20hp.

I don't think 600w -- less than one horsepower -- is going to even get that thing rolling in the dirt. If you can't find an ETEK, you might try a 4 hp Perm 080 or an 18hp Perm 132.

http://www.enigmaindustries.com/PMG_080/PMG_080.htm

 

[knightmb]

It's a 110 CC Gas Motor which about the closest thing to match on scale is maybe close to only 600 watts of power. It really works just fine on that for me. I won't be going fast, just off road, so if my top speed is limited to only 30 MPH, that's perfectly fine by me.

I don't recall the little Honda 110 in stock form going anywhere near 30mph -- maybe 20mph, probably high-teens. I couldn't find the horsepower rating, but the ATC 90 is said to be 7hp, the 250R 38hp.
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/512/releases/2380

I remember my Yamaha 225 going about 25mph -- 30mph after I replaced the 24mm carb with a 30mm carb and the stock pipe with an unmuffled one. I'm guessing it was about 20hp.

I don't think 600w -- less than one horsepower -- is going to even get that thing rolling in the dirt. If you can't find an ETEK, you might try a 4 hp Perm 080 or an 18hp Perm 132.

http://www.enigmaindustries.com/PMG_080/PMG_080.htm

Both good points. ATV don't normally have speed computers on them, so 20 MPH might seem fast when you are rushing through the woods.

Well for giggles. I tied the 3 wheeler to the back of my e-bike and was able to roll myself and my wife at 20 MPH in neutral around the neighborhood. I didn't want to go much faster because she isn't comfortable with the handling much faster than that. I can only image what the neighborhood people were thinking, LOL. With a little pedal effort, I was able to pull it up the steep incline of my driveway without too much effort. That alone surprised me, that's why I really wondering how well it would run if it just had a good torque monster of a motor and some high amp batteries.

Yes, I'm going to get a video of this when she gets off of work if I can talk her into this crazy thing again, LOL.

 

[BiGH]

hahahah thats awesome!

yeah you don't want to be doing massive wheelies in that thing...

doing a wheelie on an ebike - u might look like an ass
doing a wheelie on that thing - u might get crushed and end up in hospital.

 

[Ypedal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dc6z4wNmdM

Wheelies on trikes is quite simple actually ! ( I can do about 20 ft on my SX)

 

[BiGH]

i stand corrected :lol:

 

[xyster]

Well for giggles. I tied the 3 wheeler to the back of my e-bike and was able to roll myself and my wife at 20 MPH in neutral around the neighborhood.

Wow, you have a very compliant wife. What did you do to her?

Now try pulling it through mud -- a whole 'nother ball of wax as far as required power. You'll need commensurate power if you want to keep up with your buddies on their gas ATVs -- especially if you don't use the gearbox. You wouldn't want to embarrass yourself, or give ammo to the ICE-righteous EV-naysayers, would you?

Since manufacturers and vendors competed on displacement and not power output (my piston is bigger than your piston), I couldn't find many hp ratings. But if the ATC 90 was 7hp, the 110 was probably about 10hp.

 

[Ypedal]

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/

Everything you ever wanted/needed to know about a trike can be found there !!!

( They may not like the EV conversion however... some of these guys are pretty hard core trike fanatics !! yeah.. i'm a member aka : BigRedHead )

 

[xyster]

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/

Everything you ever wanted/needed to know about a trike can be found there !!!

Do you know of any comprehensive horsepower charts covering most of the stock models, old and new?

This is the best I found:

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/archive/index.php/t-11097.html
1. Suzuki Quadzilla LT500 ---------> 51srwhp / 390lbs = 0.1308 horsepower per pound
2. Cannondale Cannibal -------------> 38srwhp / 375lbs = 0.1013 horsepower per pound
3. Yamaha Banshee ------------------> 37srwhp / 386lbs = 0.0959 horsepower per pound
4. Suzuki QuadRacer 250R --------> 31srwhp / 327lbs = 0.0948 horsepower per pound
5. Kawasaki Tecate 4 ----------------> 33srwhp / 339lbs = 0.0944 horsepower per pound
6. Honda 250R --------------------------> 31srwhp / 329lbs = 0.0942 horsepower per pound
7. Yamaha Raptor 660R -------------> 35srwhp / 399lbs = 0.0877 horsepower per pound
8. Suzuki Z400 / Kawasaki X400 -> 32srwhp / 370lbs = 0.0865 horsepower per pound
9. Bombardier DS650 BAJA --------> 39srwhp / 475lbs = 0.0821 horsepower per pound
10. Honda 400EX -----------------------> 29srwhp / 374lbs = 0.0775 horsepower per pound
11. Polaris Sport 400 ------------------> 34srwhp / 481lbs = 0.0707 horsepower per pound
12. Polaris Scrambler 500 2WD ---> 35srwhp / 523lbs = 0.0669 horsepower per pound
13. Yamaha Blaster --------------------> 20srwhp / 320lbs = 0.0625 horsepower per pound
14. Yamaha Warrior -------------------> 21srwhp / 397lbs = 0.0529 horsepower per pound
15. Honda 300EX -----------------------> 17srwhp / 377lbs = 0.0451 horsepower per pound
16. Kawasaki Mojave -----------------> 17srwhp / 379lbs = 0.0449 horsepower per pound
17. Honda 250X -------------------------> 15srwhp / 351lbs = 0.0427 horsepower per pound
18. Honda 250EX -----------------------> 13srwhp / 349lbs = 0.0372 horsepower per pound
19. Suzuki QuadSport 230 ----------> 11srwhp / 309lbs = 0.0356 horsepower per pound
20. Wal-Mart PowerWheels ---------> 0.5srwhp / 50lbs = 0.0100 horsepower per pound

 

[knightmb]

Good question, take a look at this link.
http://www.zapworld.com/zapstore/detail.aspx?ID=385

You notice they show:

Colors available: Black, Yellow
Product size: 55"w x 33"l x 39" (140 x 85 x100 cm)
Max speed: approximately 22 mph (35km/h )
Charging duration: 4-6 hours
Power: 800 Watts (equivalent 150cc)
Type of motor: DC series motor
Carrying capacity: 330 lbs (150kg)
Battery Capacity: 48 Volt , 31Amp Hours

I'm going to e-mail to find out how they came up with that number.

 

[knightmb]

Here are some more pictures, I just got the motor off, along with the gas tank, etc. The weight of this has been dropped to 155 lbs now. Good ole' solid steel

Now I'm going to clean everything up, clean up the back brakes (they still work, LOL), probably do a little tough up paint, get all that gross "oil" off of the frame from it's previous life. I sent in some pictures to a friend who has an entire shop to weld and fab with. He said it will be a piece of cake (well for him anyway) to convert this to a 4 wheeler with suspension. My part will be to get the motor and design a cage in which to hold the batteries below. Along with power controller, and other electronic related chores (new lights, switches, etc)

So while this

 

[xyster]

Good question, take a look at this link.
http://www.zapworld.com/zapstore/detail.aspx?ID=385

You notice they show:

Colors available: Black, Yellow
Product size: 55"w x 33"l x 39" (140 x 85 x100 cm)
Max speed: approximately 22 mph (35km/h )
Charging duration: 4-6 hours
Power: 800 Watts (equivalent 150cc)
Type of motor: DC series motor
Carrying capacity: 330 lbs (150kg)
Battery Capacity: 48 Volt , 31Amp Hours

I'm going to e-mail to find out how they came up with that number.

8-12 hp (6,000-9000 watts) appears typical of a stock 150cc engine:
http://www.google.com/search?q=150-cc%20horsepower&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Probably in just the right circumstances (like on level pavement ) the 800 watt ZapTV can do 22mph.

In it's prior life, your ATC 110 had a 7hp engine. Unless you feed it at the very least 3000 watts, I think it is going to bog-down and refuse to go where you want it to off-road.

 

[knightmb]

In it's prior life, your ATC 110 had a 7hp engine. Unless you feed it at the very least 3000 watts, I think it is going to bog-down and refuse to go where you want it to off-road.

I agree, I'm looking at getting an Etek motor for this project. That way I have plenty of room to expand, should one day I want to go from SLA to Litho for even more power, the motor will be ready for it.

 

[knightmb]

Here's my latest rough draft of what I plan to do. You have to use your imagination as I'm not good at drawing, just doing some rip/copy/paste to make a rough picture

I've decided on the Etek PMAC Brushless Motor (6HP to 15HP peak), 30 to 56 volts with 100 amps norm and 300 amps max for short burst (30 seconds or less). Then I'm going to use the Sevcon PMAC 250 amp power controller. Finally, battery power will be (4) 12 volt 33AH AGM Lead Batteries in series for 48 volts.

After it's all said and done, that's 155 lbs for the trike frame, wheels, etc. Then 22 lbs for the motor, a few pounds for the power controller, and then 104 lbs for the batteries. This will bring it's weight up to 281 lbs, probably closer to 290 lbs once you add front shocks, seat shocks, etc.

I'm going to keep it as a trike (to honor my other 3 wheeler) but get a suspension front end instead of the solid bar one it has now.

So it's going to end up weighing nearly 300 lbs with finished. It will certainly be a fun project, though a long one. It's going to take a while to save up the money for all the parts, but it will be interesting when it's finished. I plan of making everything completely water proof (as close as I can without causing something to overheat). I want a unique feature of this ATV to be completely submersible for short periods of time, will make for a great video anyway, LOL.