2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

[menvert]

is there a good battery supplier that you guys would recommend? One that sells the charger with the battery preferably.

The reason I went for the 48v is because I wanted a slightly faster low gear so that I could use it as my primary speed and only use high gear if needed. My commute on the bus now is roughly 2 hours to and from work, and I expect this to shave at least 45 minutes from my commute and add quality me time to boot.

It somewhat depends, where do you live, what's your budget, do you have lots of hills, are you and the bike heavy.

If cost if not a limiting factor most will swear by em3ev.com for a reliable reseller, though they only have 48v(13S) packs at 11Ah, they have 50v packs though like this 1 cell higher (14S) than a normal 48v so should be okay, and will up your speed even more...

I'll get my next bettery from BMS, postage is quite high as is delivery time and more than a few people not happy with their service, but my last one from them is 5 years old now (only issue ever was the plug amperage was too low, so had to solder in a higher amp plug), to go with a lipo pack like those i'd still get the triangle bag from em3ev

 

[Deesjoint]

Thanks for the info I will be looking the up.

 

[ugn]

First of, thanks to all the contributors for sharing the info and personal experience Just finished reading the whole thread.

I'm thinking about buying the XD 2-speed kit, going to go with the 48 watt. Don't thing I need a large battery pack, 5ah+ should do just fine.
So this battery should do just fine: http://www.bmsbattery.com/battery-pack/685-bottle-ebike-battery.html right?

 

[menvert]

First of, thanks to all the contributors for sharing the info and personal experience Just finished reading the whole thread.

I'm thinking about buying the XD 2-speed kit, going to go with the 48 watt. Don't thing I need a large battery pack, 5ah+ should do just fine.
So this battery should do just fine: http://www.bmsbattery.com/battery-pack/685-bottle-ebike-battery.html right?

Yup should be fine, it's above 15amps continious and that is the no-controller version which is what you want, those square type bottle batteries are really nice because of how they mount centrally and easily (you'll still need a place, like a saddle bag to mount your controler though and depending on the output cable you might have to do some soldering and/or get a compatible connector plug)

 

[ugn]

Yeah, soldering and stuff is no big problem.
But I want to try to add the weight as physical low as possible, to get a low point of gravity (is that the right 'term'?).

I'm basically choosing between XD 2 speed and BBS-02

 

[menvert]

Yeah, soldering and stuff is no big problem.
But I want to try to add the weight as physical low as possible, to get a low point of gravity (is that the right 'term'?).
I'm basically choosing between XD 2 speed and BBS-02

Yup I had a simmilar choice, I went with the XD because I don't pedal fast (the BBS cadence is 60-90 rpm which is too high for my knee and can't really be changed) and I want short crank arms, plus I love how a hub works for the fast acceleration independent of how you change gears, it's also a fair bit cheaper for the XD, people on BBS's don't overtake me on my single speed hub (until we are on a long straight, because the standstill accelleration is so much faster on a hub

 

[mountain biker]

okay. I appreciate all the helpful replies on this things...new to the game and interested in this electric bicycle kind of stuff but....so if I understand right. on this one you give it full throttled and after you hit 88 rpm 40 nm torque it starts to speed up and draw less amps and give higher rpm...so when it reaches a pont of no more acceleration(assuming ur on flat ground) you can manually shift or let it autoshift for you to the higher gear and then let the same process happen again? how do you get the maxium range on this thing then...would you be beneficial to to only give half throttle? assuming your not peddling...

 

[menvert]

okay. I appreciate all the helpful replies on this things...new to the game and interested in this electric bicycle kind of stuff but....so if I understand right. on this one you give it full throttled and after you hit 88 rpm 40 nm torque it starts to speed up and draw less amps and give higher rpm...so when it reaches a pont of no more acceleration(assuming ur on flat ground) you can manually shift or let it autoshift for you to the higher gear and then let the same process happen again? how do you get the maxium range on this thing then...would you be beneficial to to only give half throttle? assuming your not peddling...

The overall experience on flat will be a smooth acceleration curve of increasing rpm & decreasing torque, in a given gear there wont be any feeling of it getting to some rpm and then suddenly speeding up. This curve will change somewhat when you apply a load to the situation, like on a hill, if it struggles; rpm drops and as a result more torque will be available, until it reaches a point it can hold that speed or accelerate. But as we know with the XD has gears, so at a point the controller decides it'll auto shift to give either double torque and more efficiency for hills/starts, or higher speed. The new controller revision sounds like it does a great job of auto-shift based on it's calculation based on speed and load.

Getting most range and efficiency would be to Use PAS I'd think, in accelerator only mode you will get more range by using less throttle in some situations (like on start-up and flat) and in others you will do the opposite (like climbing a hill, you want to accelerate enough to keep the motor in it's high rpm efficient range - the RPM's where it is around 70-80% efficiency) some points in your ride you'll know that a manual shift is better than waiting for the shift.
There is a whole topic on it here somewhere about efficiency, the guy recommends 'pulsing' for most efficiency, not so sure about that but it's more or less - use full accelerator to get up to speed, then minimal to coast, and repeat periodically.

 

[mountain biker]

I appreciate that....so going at 5.5 percent like another posted said 10 milesper hour 200 watts draw not until you slow down to like 4 that amps start picking up and the torque kicks in. that's kinda cool....this thing must really save on the amp usage...the acceleration curve then on first gear goes up to around 200 rpm with almost no amps...is that even possible.. riders n 36 volt seem to be experiencing 8 or so miles with no peddling in first..so there must be some kind of power band on this thing that you still need Nm at a level to stil pull you on flat ground( what it is please tell me...man I thought I got out of high school so I wouldn't have to be bombarded with math) so it must be around that 5 amp area of current draw..that would give you enough rpm to reach that 8 or (48 volt speed I guesse..11 miles per hour. so on a machine like this if I let the machine get me to 8 miles per hour..lets say maximum speed in first gear...then I start peddling what is a possible speed? i couldn't go beyond the 200 rpm range of the front tire right? assuming i could do that that's sixteen miles per hour....but actually maye its only 8....s conused.....lol...appreciate you guys working with me.

 

[docnjoj]

I have soldered the shunt on my new KT controller and get about 8-9 mph in first gear. when it shifts up you do get a surge of power and it will proceed up to 16 mph maximum in my 20" wheel. I may go up to 44volts nominal if I decide to go to LiPo.
otherDoc

 

[mountain biker]

appreciate that...so in first gear then yoyr getting about 8 mph from a 20 inch on 36 volt soldered the shunt but the amps on the shiuana controller are about 6 amps or so right? until you shift into second and then the amps come back as you gradually accelerate right? I guesee then whem your at 8 miles per hour in first gear if you pedaled what kind of speed can you get..? so I assume its easier to hit say 11 mph with peddling in first and basically impossible on 36 volt on say flat land...so what does the pedal do at that speed?

 

[docnjoj]

appreciate that...so in first gear then yoyr getting about 8 mph from a 20 inch on 36 volt soldered the shunt but the amps on the shiuana controller are about 6 amps or so right? until you shift into second and then the amps come back as you gradually accelerate right? I guesee then whem your at 8 miles per hour in first gear if you pedaled what kind of speed can you get..? so I assume its easier to hit say 11 mph with peddling in first and basically impossible on 36 volt on say flat land...so what does the pedal do at that speed?

I'm afraid this is with pedaling. I don't have a lot of power but I do pedal all the time. Perhaps 17 mph with some serious pedaling in high on level ground. I am not sure of the winding, but Xiondga says it was the fast wind.
otherDoc

 

[mountain biker]

hey apprecia that. what if you did not pedaling and did motor only. how fast does this thing go say on flat ground. and what is the acceleration like one minute to get to 8 mph in first then another minute to get to 16 in second gear....what are the no pedal speeds on flat ground and what about a hill grade etc( what are your volts, bike batt and you weight total)...no pedal speeds. sorry to ask questions about this thing but this is interesting...im getting the impression that a 300 watt motor can't move people at 8 mph and 16 mph without human help. this is getting interesting.

 

[menvert]

appreciate that...so in first gear then yoyr getting about 8 mph from a 20 inch on 36 volt soldered the shunt but the amps on the shiuana controller are about 6 amps or so right? until you shift into second and then the amps come back as you gradually accelerate right? I guesee then whem your at 8 miles per hour in first gear if you pedaled what kind of speed can you get..? so I assume its easier to hit say 11 mph with peddling in first and basically impossible on 36 volt on say flat land...so what does the pedal do at that speed?

I'd say that's very subjective, how fit are you? how heavy is the bike? from my understanding the XD is pretty light (1.4kg) and if you have a light bike and battery, then it's going to be only a little harder work than the bike before it's electrified, hub motors don't usually add much drag, not sure about the XD in this regard. On my 1 speed hub (goes about 15mph) I still get overtaken by 60% of the commuters on my ride with their 7kg carbon bikes doing 20+ mph...

 

[mountain biker]

that makes sense.... i guesse im trying to gauge what to expect out of double speed motor here or any feedback would be cool on what speed your getting what does your setup weigh. how many watts, volts amps with unassisted peddling and batteries. i suppose this double speed motor isn't really 300 watts...because at 36 volts times 15 amps at factory specs. that's around 500 plus watts...almost double of what it says....with unassisted help and then if you peddle...maybe how long you bike....

 

[menvert]

that makes sense.... i guesse im trying to gauge what to expect out of double speed motor here or any feedback would be cool on what speed your getting what does your setup weigh. how many watts, volts amps with unassisted peddling and batteries. i suppose this double speed motor isn't really 300 watts...because at 36 volts times 15 amps at factory specs. that's around 500 plus watts...almost double of what it says....with unassisted help and then if you peddle...maybe how long you bike....

It's not a simple as 36v x 15A though, You also need to refer to the efficiency there is a table that says what the efficiency is... at it's most efficient it's 83%, that's @ just under 4A low gear, so that's 36v x 4A x .83 = about 119 watts. Their table, which you find on the Alibaba listing actually has a Pout(watts) column where they calculate it for you it maxes out at about 36v, 361 watts @ 15A high speed gear where the efficiency is 66.9%, so more heat produced, less movement (edit: the battery is still supplying 540 watts though)... Keep in mind as with all those stats actual load is not clear, so conclusions drawn may be flawed

 

[mountain biker]

its mind blowing the stats that can be thrown out with these motors and like you said we still don't know what kind of load they put on it....im curious from people riding this thing maybe total weight,kinda bike,batteries controllers etc... unassisted on a flat stretch(or about as flat as it gets) and or hill(what is grade of hill and how long) how fast this thing will go with no pedal power....im wondering if it can take off by itself and go on its own and what speed can it do this at. how long it can maintain that speed.....

 

[menvert]

its mind blowing the stats that can be thrown out with these motors and like you said we still don't know what kind of load they put on it....im curious from people riding this thing maybe total weight,kinda bike,batteries controllers etc... unassisted on a flat stretch(or about as flat as it gets) and or hill(what is grade of hill and how long) how fast this thing will go with no pedal power....im wondering if it can take off by itself and go on its own and what speed can it do this at. how long it can maintain that speed.....

I am still waiting on my XD to be manufactured and posted (the wait is agonizing), I can give stats then On my 5 year old 1 speed 36v 350w geared hub (total bike is a heavy 30kg Kmart mountain bike + my 60kg)though, I have absolutely no problems taking off from still and accelerating to 25kmh (15.5mph) in around 10-15 seconds without pedaling, though it is significantly faster if you pedal a bit on start (to get the rpm's into the high efficiency band)

Hmm, I should make some baseline stats to compare on my new build, not sure how to measure slope, need a better android GPS, though it'll be in a nice light commuter... but same battery...

 

[d8veh]

There's some strange things being said recently, so let's try and clear some things up.

The weight is slightly more than a Bafang SWX because it has the double clutch and extra pinion. Unfortunately I built my last one into a wheel yesterday, so I can't weigh it, but I would estimate the weight at somewhere between 3kg and 3.5kg.

I'm talking about the 36v one at 20A, which I can imagine is very similar to the 48v one at 15A. The following statements are for throttle only - no pedalling.

If you put the switch to low gear and accelerate from a stop, it will draw its maximum current until you get to about 8mph, and then the current ramps down until it's zero at about 12 mph, so you can't go any faster. It makes good power and torque up to about 10 mph, which is the speed it will hold on a slight incline. It will manage a 14% hill without pedalling with 110 kg on board and a bike with all-up weight about 27kg.

With the switch in high gear, it behaves exactly like a Bafang SWX at the same current, i.e. it'll draw maximum current up to about 13 mph and then it ramps down to zero at about 20 mph, which is its top speed. It makes good power and torque up to about 17 mph. It'll hold about 15mph on a slight incline.

In automatic mode, if you start from a stop, you get good acceleration initially, but then you feel it run out of power at 10mph because the current decreases. The controller senses that, so it changes gear, and then you get maximum current again, so you get new acceleration.

If you're light and your rides are flat, this motor would be the wrong one for you because it would never be in the low gear. Its strong point is that it can get heavy/weak people up steep hills by using its low gear. My tests don't show it to be any more efficient than a larger geared hub-motor. It's only advantage is that it's smaller and lighter and has a lower nominal rating, but can still get you up those steep hills without overheating, though more slowly than a bigger geared motor. It can maintain good torque right down to about 3mph. It could also be useful for those that want low power high speed setup by overvolting it to raise the gear-change point. My ones change at a proportionally higher point if I increase the voltage. This would solve the problem of poor efficiency at low speeds that you get with other low power high speed motors.

 

[menvert]

The weight is slightly more than a Bafang SWX because it has the double clutch and extra pinion. Unfortunately I built my last one into a wheel yesterday, so I can't weigh it, but I would estimate the weight at somewhere between 3kg and 3.5kg.

Oh, my bad, I read back and the poster said 1-1.4kg additionl compared to a 1 speed hub (not total weight as I thought)... If I remember I'll record the exact mass before I lace mine. The clarification about the actual power curve is good too.

 

[docnjoj]

My trike and me together with a small load weigh about 310 lbs. The motor will hoist me and the bike up 5-6% 1.5 mile hill with minimal increase in temperature. This @ 36 volts and about 25 amps. I am still not positive about the windings but Yona says it is high speed and in a 20" wheel. Speed on the above mentioned hill is about 7-8 mph always with pedaling. It sould be a bit more powerful but also hotter @ 44volts nominal. Possibly for Christmas I consider those new 16000ma HobbyKing batteries for a bit of extra power.
It actually uses about the same number of Wh/hrs as my 2807, or about 12 ah per 20 miles @ 36 volts.
otherDoc

 

[mountain biker]

appreciate that...everything I read on this has been so helpful. I thank everyone for their post....so lets continue with the madness....so 36 volt 20 amp were getting around 10 mph no peddling..but that amp reading is less because the amps go down until 0 at around 12 mph....but 10 mph is what you can get too with no peddling....so what would be the theortical fastest you could get this thing..or actuall if you were peddling...I would be interested to know maybe with a constant rpm for a time regular cadence I guesse...and then maybe a burst what would be top speed. keep it in first gear and then second gear ratings...and question on those runs mentioned before how many miles did you go..what time etc... on your battery setup(I guesse ah etc)....this is getting interesting.

 

[d8veh]

Motors have a maximum speed regardless of whether you pedal or not and regardless of how many amps you allow. The 36v Xiongda with a 36v battery will max out at approximately 12 mph and 20 mph in the two gears. If you can pedal faster than that, good luck, but you won't get any help from the motor. Change the battery to 12S lipos, and you'll go 20% faster in each gear. A 48v battery (13S) will give you 30% more speed, but only for the 36v motor.

 

[mountain biker]

I really appreciate it. thank you all...so low speed looks like 130 rpm max rpm and 230 for max rpm for high speed.......
so on a 26 inch this means 100 rpm give me 8 miles per hour right? so then 25rpm should give me two miles per hour.....so then 130 ...is what??
if 12 mph is max speed does that mean 12 mph is 130 rpm. and then 230 rpm would mean what in speed? now these rpm can't be made by the motor alone I assume. you would have to peddle and this assumes your on a relatively flat ground.

 

[menvert]

I really appreciate it. thank you all...so low speed looks like 130 rpm max rpm and 230 for max rpm for high speed.......
so on a 26 inch this means 100 rpm give me 8 miles per hour right? so then 25rpm should give me two miles per hour.....so then 130 ...is what??
if 12 mph is max speed does that mean 12 mph is 130 rpm. and then 230 rpm would mean what in speed? now these rpm can't be made by the motor alone I assume. you would have to peddle and this assumes your on a relatively flat ground.

Well 26" is about 2 metres circumference depending on Tyre size (http://www.bikecalc.com/wheel_size_math)

So 130 RPM * 2m = 260m per minute
260m * 60 = 15600m (per hour) so divide by 1000 = 15.6 kmh
15.6 * 0.621371 (convert to miles) = 9.69 mph