recumpence
1 GW
It is a Hayes V9 rotor and Hope Tech 4 calipers.
If you research Hayes 9 inch rotor you will find it.
Matt
If you research Hayes 9 inch rotor you will find it.
Matt
20 inch full suspension street build (now with twin motors)
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
macribs
10 MW
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 3,702
Hm. Can it be that the 240 mm rotor is discontinued?
The maximum size Hayes v9 rotor I can find 224 mm.
Btw I saw some huge 10" tandem rotor from santana. Anyone tried something like that? I have no info on that 10" rotor, their website was made like in word 2000 or something
Impossible to view. From pics I saw via google it seems that the 10" rotor is not a floating disc. I wonder if that is because the large diameter removes heat so quick or is it old skool design?
The maximum size Hayes v9 rotor I can find 224 mm.
Btw I saw some huge 10" tandem rotor from santana. Anyone tried something like that? I have no info on that 10" rotor, their website was made like in word 2000 or something
Impossible to view. From pics I saw via google it seems that the 10" rotor is not a floating disc. I wonder if that is because the large diameter removes heat so quick or is it old skool design?
recumpence
1 GW
Good question. I honestly never measured it myself. It may be that the 240mm size was a misquote I read early on. I should measure it.
My understanding is that the 10 inch tandem rotor was problematic and expensive, so it was discontinued.
Matt
My understanding is that the 10 inch tandem rotor was problematic and expensive, so it was discontinued.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
The Motoped is done. So now I can focus on this bike.
Matt
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Here are a few pictures of the bike parked next to my Motoped. In these pictures you can clearly see the enormous size difference between the two. That is partly because the Motoped is so big, and partly because the black bike is extra small. But, it gives you an idea of how compact this black bike really is.
As I mentioned, the original Hooligan wheelbase was a couple inches shorter than the black bike is now. So, this tiny bike is actually longer than it used to be. But, it is still compact. I do not know the final weight of the bike as of yet. But, rest assured, for twin motors and 40ah of pack, it should be light. Everything on the bike was concentrated on weight.
This bike has 30hp peak (output power, not battery draw) and should be quite light. The power to weight ratio and the handling should be phenomenal. I have been riding the Motoped (using the identical drive unit, controllers, programming, and voltage) and even that huge and very heavy bike is monstrously powerful. This thing should be a friggin rocket. That is the reason for Delta/Wye switching. I need to be able to tame this beast for general riding.
Enjoy the pictures!
Matt
As I mentioned, the original Hooligan wheelbase was a couple inches shorter than the black bike is now. So, this tiny bike is actually longer than it used to be. But, it is still compact. I do not know the final weight of the bike as of yet. But, rest assured, for twin motors and 40ah of pack, it should be light. Everything on the bike was concentrated on weight.
This bike has 30hp peak (output power, not battery draw) and should be quite light. The power to weight ratio and the handling should be phenomenal. I have been riding the Motoped (using the identical drive unit, controllers, programming, and voltage) and even that huge and very heavy bike is monstrously powerful. This thing should be a friggin rocket. That is the reason for Delta/Wye switching. I need to be able to tame this beast for general riding.
Enjoy the pictures!
Matt
Attachments
speedmd
10 MW
Too cool Matt. Just when winter was wearing a bit on me and thinking I may not do much on the ebike side this summer, you post some shots and I am fully recharged now. Just what I needed this 15 degree F sunny morning. Time to wax up the skis. cheers
Just what I needed this 15 degree F sunny morning. Time to wax up the skis. cheers
recumpence
1 GW
Sometimes I need something for inspiration too.
So, I weighed the bike as shown along with the battery packs and the bike looks like it will come in at 85 pounds total. So, here are the numbers;
Weight 85 pounds
Power roughly 30hp peak at the rear wheel (around 15 hp sustained potential)
Range? I would guess around 35 to 50 miles depending on how it is ridden.
So, the bike has the power of a 125 motocross bike, the torque of a 450 four stroke, the weight of a 50cc pit bike (or lighter) and the size of an 80......
It should be fun!
Oh, this is the identical drive unit the Motoped has. That bike (with my 185 pound body on board) has a power to weight ratio (pounds per horsepower) of 11.2 to 1. This be will have better than 9 to 1.
Matt
So, I weighed the bike as shown along with the battery packs and the bike looks like it will come in at 85 pounds total. So, here are the numbers;
Weight 85 pounds
Power roughly 30hp peak at the rear wheel (around 15 hp sustained potential)
Range? I would guess around 35 to 50 miles depending on how it is ridden.
So, the bike has the power of a 125 motocross bike, the torque of a 450 four stroke, the weight of a 50cc pit bike (or lighter) and the size of an 80......
It should be fun!
Oh, this is the identical drive unit the Motoped has. That bike (with my 185 pound body on board) has a power to weight ratio (pounds per horsepower) of 11.2 to 1. This be will have better than 9 to 1.
Matt
speedmd
10 MW
Less than 10:1 is some rare ground! Torque of a 450! 
Bravo mate. Should be an absolute blast to ride. 
Bravo mate. Should be an absolute blast to ride.
recumpence
1 GW
I am doing the wiring on the bike now. I expect to have it running in a week or possibly less (though easter weekend is here, so that might slow things down a bit).
The bike is mechanically finished other than a carbon fiber dashboard panel and one other small bracket. It is just a lot of wiring to finish it at this point.
Matt
The bike is mechanically finished other than a carbon fiber dashboard panel and one other small bracket. It is just a lot of wiring to finish it at this point.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
The bike is finished. Holy freaking crap this thing is insane......
Here is the skinny on it;
It runs over 50mph in Delta. In Wye it is low 30s. Wye is really a lot of fun. Delta is just freaking nuts..... It is difficult to describe riding something this small and light with this much power. It is like riding a sport bike. The bike is running beyond my expectations in many ways. It is pulling over 600 amps (12S) under acceleration. The huge 2 gauge power wire is getting warm. This thing is a monster.
So, the dynamics of the system;
The Delta/Wye switching is working perfectly. In fact, it is working so well, I have no idea why this is not more common. I think I am going to setup every bike I own with this system. I have a key switch that arms the relays. In the off position the system stays in Wye. When the key-switch is on, a thumb switch is activated for switching from Wye to Delta. Wye is plenty of fun. Delta is otherworldly insane. I have the torque limiter set to prevent wheelies without sitting upright. Basically if I lean forward at all, it will not wheelie, the clutch will slip a bit. If I sit upright, it will wheelie. The longer wheelbase and lower center of gravity (and added weight) really keeps the front wheel down.
The suspension is perfect. The forks need a touch more air pressure (spring rate). So, I will air them up a touch. But, the handling is spot on. The CG is a bit forward. So, it turns in hard, but not high-side hard.
The brakes are, well, adequate. Both rotors are turning blue, even the huge front rotor. Even the calipers are getting hot. Also, even in 40 degree weather, with fan cooling, the motors are heating up a bit. Of course, that was from some really hard riding. I beat the crap out of this thing!
The motors absolutely WAIL in Delta. They are really stunning to listen to. They wail under acceleration. However, once up to speed, the sound drops to about 1/2 the DB. It is weird HEARING high wattage in the motors.
Now, I must say overall the bike is actually a bit too fast, both acceleration and top speed. I may lower it from over 50mph to around 47. That should take a touch off the top and eliminate the controller stress. Under the hardest partial throttle pull I got the controllers to over-amp and shut down. Also, the bike is so fast the brakes are overwhelmed (just a bit, not horribly). I love the longer wheelbase. The bike accelerates REALLY hard before the front wheel comes up. All my other 20 inch bikes were too short and wheelied far too easily. This bike is crazy fast, but does not wheelie so easily. It is far more controllable in that sense. However, it screams like a turbo-charged sport bike.
I will post some completed pictures soon.
Matt
Here is the skinny on it;
It runs over 50mph in Delta. In Wye it is low 30s. Wye is really a lot of fun. Delta is just freaking nuts..... It is difficult to describe riding something this small and light with this much power. It is like riding a sport bike. The bike is running beyond my expectations in many ways. It is pulling over 600 amps (12S) under acceleration. The huge 2 gauge power wire is getting warm. This thing is a monster.
So, the dynamics of the system;
The Delta/Wye switching is working perfectly. In fact, it is working so well, I have no idea why this is not more common. I think I am going to setup every bike I own with this system. I have a key switch that arms the relays. In the off position the system stays in Wye. When the key-switch is on, a thumb switch is activated for switching from Wye to Delta. Wye is plenty of fun. Delta is otherworldly insane. I have the torque limiter set to prevent wheelies without sitting upright. Basically if I lean forward at all, it will not wheelie, the clutch will slip a bit. If I sit upright, it will wheelie. The longer wheelbase and lower center of gravity (and added weight) really keeps the front wheel down.
The suspension is perfect. The forks need a touch more air pressure (spring rate). So, I will air them up a touch. But, the handling is spot on. The CG is a bit forward. So, it turns in hard, but not high-side hard.
The brakes are, well, adequate. Both rotors are turning blue, even the huge front rotor. Even the calipers are getting hot. Also, even in 40 degree weather, with fan cooling, the motors are heating up a bit. Of course, that was from some really hard riding. I beat the crap out of this thing!
The motors absolutely WAIL in Delta. They are really stunning to listen to. They wail under acceleration. However, once up to speed, the sound drops to about 1/2 the DB. It is weird HEARING high wattage in the motors.
Now, I must say overall the bike is actually a bit too fast, both acceleration and top speed. I may lower it from over 50mph to around 47. That should take a touch off the top and eliminate the controller stress. Under the hardest partial throttle pull I got the controllers to over-amp and shut down. Also, the bike is so fast the brakes are overwhelmed (just a bit, not horribly). I love the longer wheelbase. The bike accelerates REALLY hard before the front wheel comes up. All my other 20 inch bikes were too short and wheelied far too easily. This bike is crazy fast, but does not wheelie so easily. It is far more controllable in that sense. However, it screams like a turbo-charged sport bike.
I will post some completed pictures soon.
Matt
spinningmagnets
100 TW
I don't know of anyone else that is actively building E-bikes with delta/wye switching. Armchair quaterbacks will argue on Monday morning until they are exhausted, but the truth is in riding an actual running E-bike that does D/W well. Awesome work, Matt...well done!
For those who are curious about the larger Motoped shown in the pics a few posts above, here is the link:
"25,000 watt Motoped with 3kwh of nano-tech"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=62040
For those who are curious about the larger Motoped shown in the pics a few posts above, here is the link:
"25,000 watt Motoped with 3kwh of nano-tech"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=62040
macribs
10 MW
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 3,702
Matt you gatta get yourself to the tracks and do a quarter mile or use GPS or laser to check speed and acceleration.
Do you think you could reach 60 mph with larger diameter wheel maybe?
I saw one e-bike video doing a 20 sec run on the track. If you could up your top end just for the track with larger rear wheel I am sure you would beat that easily.
At least get some videos of you riding this wicked thing. You just finished my e-bike dream build. I will have something like this one day.
Very light bike with huge power. Thats a winner in my book.
Do you think you could reach 60 mph with larger diameter wheel maybe?
I saw one e-bike video doing a 20 sec run on the track. If you could up your top end just for the track with larger rear wheel I am sure you would beat that easily.
At least get some videos of you riding this wicked thing. You just finished my e-bike dream build. I will have something like this one day.
Very light bike with huge power. Thats a winner in my book.
recumpence
1 GW
This system is the same system that ran 86 mph on the trike from outrider last year. 60 mph would be nothing.macribs said:
Everything on this bike is right on the ragged edge. It would be very difficult to achieve a higher power density than this. The motors are on the edge, the controllers are on the edge, the brakes, suspension, wheels, everything is running very near the limit.
I cannot believe how well all of my projects have worked out lately. Everything just works right the first time.
I feel very thankful for these bikes.
Matt
spinningmagnets
100 TW
"experience"...it makes all the difference.
recumpence
1 GW
Here are some pictures. You can see the front rotor blued from heat. The caliper got hot enough that I could not touch it (after 8 full throttle, full brake sessions back to back).
The pedal chain is missing as are a few side panel bolts. Other than that, the bike is finished.
Matt
The pedal chain is missing as are a few side panel bolts. Other than that, the bike is finished.
Matt
Attachments
Byte
1 kW
Such a nice bike! Those 2 gauge wires coming out of the bike look cool! A few questions Matt... Do you use some kind of bms? How do you charge the bike?
Oh.. where can I test ride it?
Oh.. where can I test ride it?
recumpence
1 GW
I do not use a BMS. Each pack gets checked with a battery medic once a year. They never go out of balance if treated well.Byte said:Such a nice bike! Those 2 gauge wires coming out of the bike look cool! A few questions Matt... Do you use some kind of bms? How do you charge the bike?
Oh.. where can I test ride it?
I use a 1200 watt Meanwell power supply as a charger.
Matt
Byte
1 kW
Okay, nice to know. But you don't charge them up to 4.2v per cell do you? And to what cell voltage do you discharge them?
recumpence
1 GW
I charge my 12s pack to 49.9 volts. The controllers are set at 42 Lv cutoff.
Matt
Matt
Ohbse
10 kW
Fantastic work and the outcome is stunning.
I too would love to see some numbers on performance to help get me head around the extreme power to weight. An 1/8th mile drag racing session would be an ideal proving ground!
I too would love to see some numbers on performance to help get me head around the extreme power to weight. An 1/8th mile drag racing session would be an ideal proving ground!
recumpence
1 GW
Ohbse said:
I cannot tell how fast it will accelerate because of the wheelie tendency. It looks like 0 to 50mph in about 4 seconds. It is capable of better acceleration, but the front end lifts.
Matt
Ohbse
10 kW
recumpence said:
The other advantage of going to a track with proper timing gear is that you can use it to tune. As I'm sure you're aware, sometimes the old butt dyno is not the most accurate tool - you can get it dialed in for peak performance with only a couple of numbers (60', 330' trap speed). I realise that you're not really competing with anybody or anything at this point but at the very least I'm sure you would have a crowd of interested potential customers if you're ripping sport bike launches on something with pedals.
recumpence
1 GW
OK, I just came in from some more testing. This time I fully charged the pack first. Last test the pack was at 45 volts. So, I took it up to 50 volts and rode for a few miles.
Here are the results;
In Wye it runs 31mph. In Delta it tops out at 54mph. With a full charge the acceleration is mind bending. Luckily enough with the long wheelbase and my experience with these bikes, I am not scared of it. However, I am really scared of allowing anyone to ride it in Delta. I am very glad I decided to go with a key switch to disable Delta.
Also, it pulled 580 amps on the latest run and maxed out just shy of 12,000 motor RPM. The controllers only reached 105 degrees F (it is 70 degrees outside) and cooled right off after the run because they are in a high airflow location. Also, the highest current ripple I saw was .68 volts. That is super good. Current ripple damages the FETs if it is too high. General rule of thumb is 3 volts or under. Anything under 1 volt is phenomenally good. This was only .68 volts. Current ripple occurs with either sub standard cells, sub standard wiring, or poor connectors. So, the .68 volts I saw means the power supply of this bike is VERY powerful and stable.
This thing continues to impress me. One thing I plan to do is make a couple simple air ducts to direct cooling air to the brake rotors and calipers. I also need soft compound pads to cure the front brake "Sing". When a rotor and pads glaze over, the rotor will vibrate under hard braking. Soft pads and a deglazing (sanding) of the rotor cures this.
I am so incredibly pleased, I feel giddy!
The only questions for me at this point are range and reliability. Those remain to be seen.
Matt
Here are the results;
In Wye it runs 31mph. In Delta it tops out at 54mph. With a full charge the acceleration is mind bending. Luckily enough with the long wheelbase and my experience with these bikes, I am not scared of it. However, I am really scared of allowing anyone to ride it in Delta. I am very glad I decided to go with a key switch to disable Delta.
Also, it pulled 580 amps on the latest run and maxed out just shy of 12,000 motor RPM. The controllers only reached 105 degrees F (it is 70 degrees outside) and cooled right off after the run because they are in a high airflow location. Also, the highest current ripple I saw was .68 volts. That is super good. Current ripple damages the FETs if it is too high. General rule of thumb is 3 volts or under. Anything under 1 volt is phenomenally good. This was only .68 volts. Current ripple occurs with either sub standard cells, sub standard wiring, or poor connectors. So, the .68 volts I saw means the power supply of this bike is VERY powerful and stable.
This thing continues to impress me. One thing I plan to do is make a couple simple air ducts to direct cooling air to the brake rotors and calipers. I also need soft compound pads to cure the front brake "Sing". When a rotor and pads glaze over, the rotor will vibrate under hard braking. Soft pads and a deglazing (sanding) of the rotor cures this.
I am so incredibly pleased, I feel giddy!
The only questions for me at this point are range and reliability. Those remain to be seen.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
peters said:
Nope, sensorless.
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