2000 Kona Kiluea a good donor?

[dosbo6694]

Hi, I'm new to ES and am happy to have found you. I've chosen my 2000 Kiluea as my donor bike from the stable. I've gone over it and serviced/upgraded everything getting it ready to receive the Bafang BBS02 that I have yet to purchase. After reading a few other posts I'm realizing that shallow vertical dropouts might not be the best thing? I can see how there would be no way to adjust chain tension except for shortening/lengthening the chain or just by the chain tensioner on the real derailleur. Is this cause for concern? Also, was going to order the kit from Johhny Nerdout, any thoughts on this or other suggestions? Thanks so much in advance for your answers and I hope to be a regular user/contributor to the forum. If it didn't come up in my profile, I'm in Manhattan IL, USA.

 

[neptronix]

Yo!
If the wheel to bicycle interface works fine for the bike as it is, there's no reason it needs to be different for the mid drive.
It's normal to either use chain length or the derailleur to adjust tension. That's how every bike i've owned with a derailleur worked.

 

[docw009]

The 2000 Kiluea is a single speed bike? Was gonna scoff at the notion of a mid drive, but my wife has ridden over 15000 miles on ebikes, all 6-7 speed derailleurs, and probably only shifted the gears a dozen times.

Bought my first BBS02B in 2016 from Luna Cycles. The second from Pswpower in China in 2022. I see that Nerdout sells the Canbus version for about $550? If I needed another one, I'd probably get it on amazon or from China again. I'm OK with being cheap on the kit. Spend the money on the batteyr though,

 

[dosbo6694]

Thank you both for the replies. It has a 9 sp cassette on it.

 

[neptronix]

I don't know if the BBS will work with a 9 speed chain, it probably does.
Consider downgrading to 8 speed for a stronger chain if you plan to rack up tons of miles.

Your main consideration should be the bottom bracket with a mid drive kit like that, most bikes of the era have a 68-73mm english bottom bracket, very unlikely you have some incompatible random bottom bracket specification, but check anyway

 

[dosbo6694]

Probably a good idea. It's a 68mm BB. Thanks!

 

[dosbo6694]

Thanks for the replies yesterday on my new build. I'm getting ready to order the kit, going with the BBS02. What is everyone's thoughts on brake cut outs? I've never ridden a DIY so I have nothing to compare to. I'm leaning towards NOT putting them on. Thanks

 

[docw009]

I believe brake cutouts are good insurance for safety in case if a throttle fault. I have see several in 10 years of ebiking,

 

[2old]

It appears from the pics on the net that your bike is an aluminum hardtail, so should be perfect for a BBS02 conversion. The 68mm BB is excellent since you have enough room for the "jam" nut to secure the main one. As above procure a good battery from em3ev, ebikesca or some other good vendor if they're too expensive. I've had good service with rectangular batteries in a Blackburn water bottle cage using foam to absorb shock off road.

 

[dosbo6694]

So, I've only been thinking about a mid drive for this project, 2000 Kona Kilauea, steel 9sp cassette MB. The more I research the more I'm leaning towards a rear hub drive. My thought is to make this a gravel/tar and chip rider to ride 15 miles one way to a youth camp that I volunteer at and a ride around. I've looked at GRIN Tech and Golden Motor so far. What are some other options. I'd like a 50 mile capacity battery set-up. Speed is not important to me, 68yo and a "little" out of shape. 230# @6' tall. I really appreciate the responses I've gotten so far and sorry for the mid-stream change. All input is considered and appreciated.

 

[2old]

If any part of your ride is on bumpy terrain, you'll hate a rear hub unless it's a small 36V system FME & IMO. However, rear hubs are great for smooth terrain.

 

[Chalo]

I'm getting ready to order the kit, going with the BBS02.

That's a good pick.

What is everyone's thoughts on brake cut outs?

Those are the first thing I eradicate when building or rebuilding an e-bike. I don't use parts whose only function is to make your bike not work. If actually powerful, actually dangerous vehicles don't need brake interlocks, neither do 1hp bicycles.

If you want to rig one of the brake cutoff wires to a panic button, hidden disable switch, or wrist strap deadman switch, those are all more useful.

 

[dosbo6694]

If any part of your ride is on bumpy terrain, you'll hate a rear hub unless it's a small 36V system FME & IMO. However, rear hubs are great for smooth terrain.

I'm going to be all gravel, tar and chip, 2 lane rural rds.

 

[dosbo6694]

That's a good pick.


Those are the first thing I eradicate when building or rebuilding an e-bike. I don't use parts whose only function is to make your bike not work. If actually powerful, actually dangerous vehicles don't need brake interlocks, neither do 1hp bicycles.

If you want to rig one of the brake cutoff wires to a panic button, hidden disable switch, or wrist strap deadman switch, those are all more useful.

Thanks Chalo, I think you've convinced me of a rear hub. Now just trying to figure out which one.

 

[bananu7]

That's a good pick.


Those are the first thing I eradicate when building or rebuilding an e-bike. I don't use parts whose only function is to make your bike not work. If actually powerful, actually dangerous vehicles don't need brake interlocks, neither do 1hp bicycles.

If you want to rig one of the brake cutoff wires to a panic button, hidden disable switch, or wrist strap deadman switch, those are all more useful.

Brake levers are what most people will grab in a panic situation. A wrist strap is great if you intend to fall down often, but in case of city riding you want to cut power to the motor quickly and reliably.

That's especially true with cheap controllers like KT which ramp PAS down slowly and sometimes unpredictably - having an instant, easily available cutoff is a huge benefit to safety and comfort. And if you want more range, you can make them activate regen, too.

 

[Chalo]

Brake levers are what most people will grab in a panic situation.

Brakes are for braking. Any of my brakes will stop any of my motors instantly if it comes to that.

That's especially true with cheap controllers like KT which ramp PAS down slowly and sometimes unpredictably -

That's one of the several things I don't like about PAS, which I don't use on my bikes either.

having an instant, easily available cutoff is a huge benefit to safety and comfort.

I have a power switch right on the handlebars. It is for turning the bike on and off. Brakes are for braking.

And if you want more range, you can make them activate regen, too.

If I wanted to loosen the axle nuts, dump my wheel out, twist up the motor cable, and ruin my bike's frame, sure. But my way to get more range is to use a bigger battery.

 

[bananu7]

Brakes are for braking. Any of my brakes will stop any of my motors instantly if it comes to that.

Very fortunate you can get by with such small power.

That's one of the several things I don't like about PAS, which I don't use on my bikes either.

That's too bad you weren't able to utilize this useful tool.

I have a power switch right on the handlebars. It is for turning the bike on and off. Brakes are for braking.

Does that power switch allow you for cutting the motor off for very short periods, say <1s?

If I wanted to loosen the axle nuts, dump my wheel out, twist up the motor cable, and ruin my bike's frame, sure. But my way to get more range is to use a bigger battery.

I'm really sorry to hear about your poor experience that had you resort to utilizing a bigger, heavier, more expensive battery just to get equivalent range.

 

[Chalo]

Very fortunate you can get by with such small power.

2400W electrical is plenty for a bicycle. I know how to get more than that from my brakes, because I've been doing it a long time with and without motor assistance.

That's too bad you weren't able to utilize this useful tool. [PAS]

I have been pedaling my bike since I started riding for daily transportation in the 1980s. I can keep doing it while using a throttle when I want to add motor power. It's better that way; both power sources only do what I want, when I want, transparently and without nonsense.

Does that power switch allow you for cutting the motor off for very short periods, say <1s?

Yes. It's a rocker switch attached to the controller enable wire. Instant on, instant off.

I'm really sorry to hear about your poor experience that had you resort to utilizing a bigger, heavier, more expensive battery just to get equivalent range.

Bigger, higher quality, longer lived, higher performing, much cheaper battery you mean. I use automotive modules mostly. My Hailong 48V pack had 14 Ah. My existing automotive packs have between 8.5 and 47 Ah and any one of them can supply several times as much current as the e-bike pack. The most I ever paid for one was $250.

I no longer even have a voltmeter on some of my bikes, because I don't have to worry about range at all.

 

[Icewrench]

A brake cut off switch will always be part of my builds.
At least one for the non throttle hand.

For me there is no faster way to cut power to the motor.

 

[Chalo]

A brake cut off switch will always be part of my builds.
At least one for the non throttle hand.

For me there is no faster way to cut power to the motor.

You understand that those things only exist because they're included in the CPSC definition of an electric bicycle, yes? Do you also leave the tags on your pillows "under penalty of law"?

If you actually think it's that important, you really should add a brake pedal engine cutoff to your car. That thing could hurt somebody.

 

[bananu7]

You understand that those things only exist because they're included in the CPSC definition of an electric bicycle, yes?

That's not correct. I put them on because I like having an ability to cut PAS easily, thusly they don't only exist because of the above.

 

[Chalo]

That's not correct. I put them on because I like having an ability to cut PAS easily, thusly they don't only exist because of the above.

That might be why you use them, but they're only there for you to use because of CPSC nanny rules. Some people insist on keeping their fork lawyer lips or tabbed front axle washers, but those things also only exist because of CPSC regulations.

 

[bananu7]

That might be why you use them, but they're only there for you to use because of CPSC nanny rules. Some people insist on keeping their fork lawyer lips or tabbed front axle washers, but those things also only exist because of CPSC regulations.

That's also not correct. Some of the sensors used are generic hall units that would exist and have indeed existed before ebikes were ever made. Hydraulic brake line and lever mechanical sensors were used for the brake light activation as well, on ICE vehicles as well as other vehicles where the levers don't even trigger the interlock.

You could argue that the software support for the interlock in the controllers only exist because of the regulations, but a simpler method is simply to intercept and ground the throttle wire, which doesn't need that.

Speaking of which, there's been a lot of projects where people use analog left-hand lever as a throttle multiplier strictly for ergonomic reasons, on motorbikes like Stark Varg et al. None of those are a result of regulations, and some use throttle components such as a regular cable lever and another throttle.

 

[E-HP]

I have a power switch right on the handlebars. It is for turning the bike on and off. Brakes are for braking.

Sometimes you can’t reach the switch, even if it’s right next to your thumb. The one time where cutoffs saved me was when I was doing some throttle tuning, adjusting out the dead zones. While out testing, I lost ground wire continuity while I was stopped at an intersection, and got thrown off the back of my bike. I was holding the handlebars and running while my bike was trying to ride down the street on one wheel. After about 20 feet i was able to grab the brake lever. In that situation there was no opportunity to hit my kill switch. Pretty embarassing. If it happened while riding at speed, the kill switch would have been easy. The other use for them is if you use cruise control.

 

[Icewrench]

A brake cut off switch will always be part of my builds.
At least one for the non throttle hand.

For me there is no faster way to cut power to the motor.