2022 Velo Orange Neutrino minivelo, Nine Continent RH212 rear hub motor

[Mongo]

For 2024, I've started on a beach bike build of a sort (flattish terrain anyway), blowing off the cobwebs off an analog Neutrino bike I've had for a while. I've wanted to tinker with a rear hub motor-powered build for a while now, so here's the first one. The tentative build list is as follows:

• Velo Orange Neutrino frameset, size large, with a 68mm English BB
• Grin Technologies Nine Continent RH212 rear hub motor CA3 kit, with the recommended fast-wind version (for 20" wheels), and Statorade
• fender eyelet torque arms, that fit around the frame's rear sliding dropouts
• V6 Baserunner_L10 controller, tied to a V3 Cycle Analyst display and the related bar controls,
• 68mm ERider-T17N torque-sensing BB, with a 5-bolt 130BCD spider
• front Sun Ringlé Ryno Lite & rear Weinmann DM30 rims, with Schwalbe Super Moto X 20x2.4 tires
• microSHIFT Advent 9-speed group
• front/rear gearing TBD, but starting with a 50T (bumped to 56T) front chainring and a 11-38 9-speed cluster
• 180/160mm front/rear brake rotors, front TRP Spyre cable brake caliper, rear e-cheapo BUCKLOS, with Jagwire Compressionless brake housing
• Copenhagen Dual Leg Kickstand, center lever drop post
• 52-volt 17-25AH downtube mounted tray-style batteries

"Do it right the first time" is my hope, using a known motor from a reputable vendor. The kit delivery is probably a month out or so, but that's ok. I purchased Grin's wheel-building services, thinking experienced hands would do better than mine, with such short spokes in a somewhat oddball arrangement.

Knowing little to nothing about hub motors, I vacillated between the RH212 and the Bafang G310, mainly because of the weight of the former, but concerned about the heat-shedding abilities of the latter. Then there's the GMAC, which may be my next motor should the RH212 not be the right match. Hot & humid summertime riding conditions are an issue where I live - bright sun and high temps mean everything gets and stays hot. Fortunately, I can run high-volume rear tires, which may help with the RH212 weight/inertia penalty.

Pictures of the details will follow as the build progresses.

 

[Mongo]

Here's an in-progress build update on the "little friend" or "little terror" - most of the parts are on, but just loosely bolted up. I need to source a rear disc brake caliper that clears the motor housing (my go-to TRP Spyre caliper does not), and there are a few other straggler parts, as is typical for these builds.

I applied power, the CA display lit up, the throttle worked and the motor spun, so that's the status for now. I'm looking around for tall axle nuts with 19mm flats (so I can carry a smaller wrench).

 

[Mongo]

For the rear disc caliper, I ended up with a sub-$10 BUCKLOS single-sided actuation mechanical unit that clears the motor casing, and with a smallish 160mm rotor that clears the kickstand. The front brake on my bikes is my go-to, so I'm generous up front with big rotors, better calipers, and premium pads.

Related to the motor selection, the RH212 tonnage really annoys me, but I don't know enough about these motors to know what one would have been a better choice. Like with choosing the Bafang BBSHD versus the BBS02, mass may delay the heat - at least that's my guess for now.

I'm also wondering if I should add another torque arm on the left side - rigged the same as the current right side one, as insurance and to help with regen forces.

I fiddle with the build every now & then - no rush, really. It won't be a daily rider, and is mainly a hub motor learning platform.

 

[nicobie]

Can't have too many t. arms especially on a high powered bike.

 

[Mongo]

Thanks @nicobie for the note/confirmation - the other thing the second torque arm would do is further trap the axle in the dropout, like the right side one does.

Fixing a rear tire flat roadside is a PITA anyway, so what's a little more hardware to fiddle.

 

[99t4]

That is an interesting looking dropout system. Apparently part of the derailleur hanger? Is it just an open slot in the plate? Does the plate slide F-R?

I have resigned myself to carrying all the (extra) tools necessary for removing the rear wheel in case of a flat. Lucky so far haven't had to use them-- the flats I have had on the road were repairable by pulling the affected portion of the tube out between the tire and rim and patching it that way.

 

[Mongo]

Hi @99t4 - this frameset has sliding rear dropouts from I.R.C., I think - they're similar to ones made by Paragon Machine Works. Similar, but not exactly the same dimensions 'cause that would be standardization, and we can't have that!

Sliding, rocker, or other interchangeable or replaceable dropouts (like Salsa's Alternator dropouts) allow for:

• fixie or IGH chain or belt tensioning
• QR, solid, or thru-axle compatibility
• varying O.L.D. dimensions (to a slight degree)
• capturing the Rohloff's proprietary "OEM" torque plate

I also suspect that the overall dropout area strength is increased, though this may be wishful thinking. All of my builds have replaceable dropouts. I like Salsa's design the most:

On the hub motor axle nuts, if I can find suitable nuts with 19mm wrench flats there are several low-cost and lightweight wrenches available, such as vintage Japanese motorcycle axle nut box wrenches to chainsaw bar socket wrenches.

 

[E-HP]

On the hub motor axle nuts, if I can find suitable nuts with 19mm wrench flats there are several wrenches available, such as vintage Japanese motorcycle axle nut box wrenches to chainsaw bar socket wrenches.

Can you remove the wheel without removing the axle nuts, by unbolting the dropouts, and disconnecting the derailleur from the hanger?

 

[Mongo]

Not easily @E-HP, because the sliding dropouts won't just slide out rearward while still bolted to the motor - they're captured into the corresponding frame fixtures. I found and am using 19mm nuts now, doubled up - I'd just like to find better ones. Flats happen, often in a blistering sun, and I like to make it as easy and straight-forward as possible with as few fiddly bits as possible to drop/lose, etc.

 

[99t4]

So you are looking for a slim 19mm combination wrench?

 

[Mongo]

Yup - these 19mm Honda wrenches can be had for around $5, and stubby combination wrenches for not much more:

There's also lightweight chainsaw wrenches - if I could find one with 19/10mm ends that would be better:

 

[Mongo]

The bike's not done (when are they ever?), but today I took it out for a shakedown. I still need to order/install a second torque arm (P.S. - done), but I think otherwise, the bike is close.

Grin did a great job pre-configuring the Baserunner, and I only had to fiddle with a few things, such as units, wheel size, and the torque sensor.

It seemed quick, but I didn't have a GPS with me to calibrate against. It easily huffed up a short bastard hill near me (not the terrain I intend the bike for), and worked very well. the Cycle Analyst display will take some getting used to, compared to the other motor displays I have.

After the inaugural flight:

I left the shift & brake cables a bit long, so I can try other bars & stems.

The Baserunner controller mounting plate is bolted to bottle bosses on the bottom of the down tube. Some open, unused connectors still need capping:


I'm looking for a long "b"-shaped cable clamp that will fit under the kickstand plate, to secure the motor connector:


CA hanging in the breeze:


P.S. - the two torque arms installed:

 

[nicobie]

clean!

 

[chuyskywalker]

Looks great. Regarding the "small mechanical rear brake" -- that's fine, just turn on regen

You've got the direct drive, the Baserunner/CA combo means you can turn on the "if brakes are active, throttle is now proportional regen" mode which is fantastic. You can also try out "pedal backwards to engage and modulate regen" which I haven't tried, but seems kinda fun.

 

[Mongo]

Thanks @chuyskywalker - Grin turned on regen, and I saw the message pop up on the display when I braked - a first for me, being a mid-drive rider. I didn't know about the backpedaling trick - thanks!

 

[Mongo]

clean!

Thanks! I need to do some more wiring positioning dress-up, among things (ergonomics too) - the fiddling never ends. Now's a good time to do it, with days of rain in the forecast.

 

[Mongo]

I'm making two minor updates after riding the bike for errands and the like.

The first is disabling regen completely, as a test. Regen is very nice, but in traffic when I just want a smidgen of speed reduction regen is providing too much. There may be a few reasons for this, as well as my inexperience with it. I don't have the analog brake levers, so when braking I get the default regen of whatever the settings are from Grin (~500 watts IIRC) - perhaps too much with my 20" wheels. The settings probably/possibly need finding a sweet spot compromise.

The second change/test is bumping up the chainring 12%, from 50T to 56T. 20MPH is my preferred default speed and I can't quite pedal that fast with the current gearing (50x11), so up it goes a little.

Otherwise it rides very nicely. Ergos are pretty much right, and boy is it quiet. The Super Moto-X tires sing a bit at higher speeds - that's about it, noise-wise.

 

[chuyskywalker]

Hrm…. That type of regen (one power mode) does suck. However, you should have the option to have proportional regen. With that, the brake pull, initially, does nothing other than turn off pushing power the motor. Then, as you twist the throttle, it will apply more and more regen power.

 

[Mongo]

Thanks much @chuyskywalker for the suggestion - my thumb throttle is on the left bar and my hand nowhere near it when hand signaling, so I'd have to cobble up a right-hand throttle that fits well within the current right-side bar controls. I've done it on other bikes, so it just needs doing.

I've also glanced over the Grin website to see what it would take to "go analog".

 

[Mongo]

While out on a ride, the torque sensing / cadence quit. I put the bike up on the work stand, looked it over, and noticed that the lock ring backed off on the ERider-T17N torque-sensing BB and the spindle was loose side-to-side - enough so that the BB sensor wasn't picking up.

So I pulled off the crank, cleaned up the spindle and the lock ring, and spotted it with some blue Loctite. Hopefully now the lock ring will stay tight.

 

[nicobie]

I'm with you. I also don't find regen very useful.