26' x 4' tyres

[Tazman]

Hi. Can someone tell what are the best money can buy tyres for a fat ebike please?. Mainly road and soft trails i ride.
Thanks all.

 

[mongrol]

Maxxis Minion FBF/FBR's. 120TPI if you can get them. They are pricey but will last 3x as long as a Kenda or similar that's only half the price.

 

[Chalo]

All knobbies are slow and poor handling on pavement. Most fatbike tires are awful handling liabilities on hard surfaces unless you grossly overinflate, in which case there's no reason at all to use fat tires.

For best results, use tires that are relatively smooth and "too narrow" for your rims, like 2.4" tires on 65mm rims, 2.8" tires on 80mm rims, 3.0 to 3.5" on 100mm rims. Those will give good stability and (relatively) good steering qualities at low enough pressures to actually benefit from how fat they are. Minimal to no knobs, unless you like to waste power and range for no advantage.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

2.4" tires on 65mm rims

I haven't run across this suggestion before, and I'd like to know more.

I have a Greenspeed Magnum Big Wheel trike, partly as it's supposed to run 4" tires. However, that is with chain and an internal hub to get the chain past the tire.

I instead am using a Gates Carbon belt on the side, and that is too wide to permit 4" tires.

But 65mm rims and 2.4" tires would fit. Maybe 80mm rims and 2.8" tires.

I ride mostly on road, but bog in sugar sand (the beach).

What can I expect off-road as well as on-road for 2.4" on 65mm or 2.8" on 80mm? Suspension effects? Float on sugar sand? Off-road performance with knobbies?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bananu7]

I think soft sand and paved roads are about as far opposite from each other as it gets. Any tyre that "works" on both is going to be a compromise. For sand you want surface area to spread the load and narrow, tall, widely spaced knobs from hard rubber acting as paddles, and flat overall shape for stability. For pavement you want thin, slick, narrow overall but with more aggressive profile.

 

[Chalo]

What can I expect off-road as well as on-road for 2.4" on 65mm or 2.8" on 80mm? Suspension effects? Float on sugar sand?

When the rim is wider than the nominal tire width, the tire's cross-section will open up and become closer to a half circle rather than a full circle. This stabilizes the tire against rolling sideways with respect to the rim at very low pressure. So like for like, you can use lower pressure without suffering handling anomalies or the risk of tires folding over and crashing you.

Also, by flattening the tire's curvature where it contacts the ground, there isn't as much casing deflection under a given load. That's good for rolling resistance and traction, because there's less internal disagreement between different tread elements in the contact patch.

A tire mounted this way on a wide rim opens up to a larger size than its marking. On the 65mm pedicab rims we made, a 2.1" slick measures about 2.7", and a 2.5" slick measures about 2.95". The outer tire diameter remains pretty close to that of the same tire on a narrower rim.

Off-road performance with knobbies?

Flotation and traction should be excellent, but there is an increased risk of rock damage to the rims because they aren't set back from the tire sidewalls as far. The sidewall height will be much less than a tire of customary size for the rim, so there will be less suspension from the tires.

 

[fill]

Just think low profile rubber ala Ferrari , Lamborghini et al

 

[amberwolf]

When the rim is wider than the nominal tire width, the tire's cross-section will open up and become closer to a half circle rather than a full circle. This stabilizes the tire against rolling sideways with respect to the rim at very low pressure. So like for like, you can use lower pressure without suffering handling anomalies or the risk of tires folding over and crashing you.

Also, by flattening the tire's curvature where it contacts the ground, there isn't as much casing deflection under a given load. That's good for rolling resistance and traction, because there's less internal disagreement between different tread elements in the contact patch.

If it helps, for those familiar with cars / car tires both "old style" and more modern types, the difference is similar*** to that between full-height sidewall tires and low profile tires. Similar problems / etc between the two, for similar reasons.



***sounds wierd to say that

 

[offGridDownUnder]

On the 65mm pedicab rims we made

You actually use these on pedicabs? If so, that gives me some good idea about the utility of the approach.

 

[Chalo]

You actually use these on pedicabs? If so, that gives me some good idea about the utility of the approach.

I urged my employer to have some manufactured, even going so far as to order some 36 hole pedicab hubs so I could lace up 65mm double walled fatbike rims as samples.

Those rims weigh roughly 1kg and they have proven themselves with many hundreds sold and ridden. Half their success is probably attributable to the 14-15ga butted spokes we laced them with, but the rims uphold their end for sure.

(NEW) Thicc 3 - 26" 65mm wide

An updated variation of the Thicc 1 (our Best proven and most preferred version to date) but with updated branding to distinguish itself from earlier generations. * Price per unit includes added amounts for applied shipping rates.

precisionpedicab.com

 

[offGridDownUnder]

you can use lower pressure without suffering handling anomalies or the risk of tires folding over and crashing you.

Thanks @Chalo. I bought the Magnum Big Wheel because it said I could use 4" tires (and it was all good otherwise), but gave that up when I found that I could not arrange my drive with a Gates Belt and also would need an internal rear hub.

But before I gave up on that, I bought 65mm 20" rims for the front, and a 65mm 26" rim for the rear. I'm going to move soon, and I was considering parting with them, but this gives me a good reason to experiment. The front end is open (apart from mudguards), so I may be able to use 4" balloons on them anyway, and this suggestion means I might get some gain from the 65mm on the rear.

Even if I stay with only pavement use (like now) I may get some benefit, and it will be interesting to see how it does behave off-road - but don't hold your breath, moving means it may be several months before I try it.

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

I've been running the FBF/FBR's but I don't think you can find FBR's anymore.

Contrary to opinion, fat bike tires do not necessarily handle poorly on pavement - this is a fallacy! The FBR/FBF's are very impressive. Tire technology has come a very long way. Easy to lean greater than 45° on hard surface even at low pressures (10-12psi) on the FBF/FBR's. Have to be very careful about pedal strikes. Best to have throttle for turn apex.

OTOH most cheap/OEM fat tires are abysmal in both terms of handling (whether hard or soft terrain), especially at low pressure and don't wear well at all. I got 3500mi on my last set of FBR/FBF's and if I felt like pushing another 500mi they'd have easily done it, the rear knobs were past happiest though moistly only showing the wear in off-road handling.

Racing motos of course the stickiest racing tires would hold not only at very high lean angles but also handle a lot of throttle while doing so. But make no mistake, there are extremely road worthy moto "knobbies" that handle the same super high lean angles, just not as much throttle while doing so although they break *very* predictably. The knobs are large to handle street stresses which is not an issue on lightweight bicycles.

I've been riding motos since the early 70's and while so much of the technology has improved, tires are near top of list. Good tires while not cheap are so much better handling today. It's been a steady course of improvement.

When I toast this set I'll be trying to figure out what's next so I'm interested with what others are finding. Like mentioned they don't even list FBR's in any size on the website although they do still have FBF's in 4.0 and 4.8...

FWIW here in the AZ desert there's just so much soft terrain, sand, gravel etc. that fat tires are an extremely practical choice. Even the sidewalks have cracks and bumps that the fatties just roll over. Key is to run low pressure... I'm generally running 10-12psi with the FBR/FBF. If I'm strictly in soft terrain will run lower. In deep sugar sand I've run 5psi...

 

[fechter]

What a bummer... It does appear Maxxis stopped making those. I have a set of FBF/FBR on my bike now and I love them. I'll be needing to do a lot of searching to find a decent replacement when the time comes.

I ride mostly on dirt, but need to take the streets to get there. There's been times on the street downhill stretch where I've caught up to a fancy pizza-cutter wheeled road bike just coasting. I have to assume from that, the rolling resistance of the tires is not much more than the little pizza cutter tires running 120psi or at least negligible compared to wind resistance and other losses.

 

[Chalo]

Contrary to opinion, fat bike tires do not necessarily handle poorly on pavement - this is a fallacy!

Oh, they turn in just fine. But then you have to fight them to get back up again. No thanks. That's them telling you you took too much of an otherwise good thing.

Any side to side test of a 4"+ tire against a 3" tire will be like night and day. See for yourself.

Knobs only work for you when the surface is softer than the tire. The rest of the time it's just slow and drifty.

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

Oh, they turn in just fine. But then you have to fight them to get back up again. No thanks. That's them telling you you took too much of an otherwise good thing.

Any side to side test of a 4"+ tire against a 3" tire will be like night and day. See for yourself.

Knobs only work for you when the surface is softer than the tire. The rest of the time it's just slow and drifty.

Oh I have. I've got an MTB that while admittedly doesn't get much time today, got a ton in the past. I've got a industrial shop for my non-bicycle related business that I open to folks with bikes since I've got a lots of tools, stands, wrenching experience, etc. I try to encourage them to do the work and let me advise but it often turns out I end up with the wrench... but I digress... Point is it gives me opportunity to ride a lot of other peoples' bikes...

When's the last time you rode a set of FBF/FBR's? I've run both 4x26" and 4.8x26" to the point of worn out.

The FBR/FBF's don't have the issue turn issue unless you are way too low pressure for hard surface... I'll just start to notice it at around 8psi (good way to know I should air up) and at 5-6 it's pronounced, but at 10-12psi they turn as well as the skinnier tire. There are plenty of fat tires that do have this issue below some pressure that for me is too high for good soft terrain work and take away the advantage of a fat tire (ability to run low pressure) but that if high enough also handle quite well... sometimes that ~15psi... and there's some tires that are just plain crap no matter what...

I remember two-three decades ago you couldn't get a moto tire that was worth a darn on pavement if it was any good on the dirt and vice versa. Today's "compromise" moto tires while not excellent at either are more than worth a darn, in fact I'd give some a grade of good (not great) at both however. I couldn't get more than a couple thousand street miles on tires that were any good in the dirt and now they run 10-12Kmi... less than a street-only but the technology has come a long way baby. I hung up my moto riding fifteen plus years ago so not up on the latest but I used to run the Continental TKC-80's. Those were excellent on thee street and decent in the dirt.

My experience with bike tires is similar but it seems the bicycle market has lagged behind the moto world. However there are fat knobby tires today that don't have the turning issue (I've heard it called several names, most don't seem entirely appropriate though), hold up very well and can hold corners on pavement as well as my old body is cozy with (45° lean). I'm more than very familiar with it as my older fatties suffered from it below around 15psi and I've also ridden crap OEM's on other folks bikes that just plain handle crappy everywhere.

I find most dualsport moto tires "drifty" on pavement (and every tire is "drifty" in the dirt) but then again I see this as a good thing with the good tires since it gives really excellent feedback on how hard you're pushing the turn and the modern tires are very predictable. Even racing tires "drift", just not as much and the area between controlled "drift" and uncontrolled is a lot narrower. Every tire "drifts" in every turn no matter what surface or what tire, it's just a matter of degree. I don't find any significant "drift" with the FBR/FBF's on pavement and I am a fairly aggressive rider in turns (far more than 90+% of the folks I ride with), it's my nature and background albeit my old bones are telling me to take it easier...

One of my thoughts on life is that you don't always "get what you pay for" - that's a silly bumper sticker cliche... but you do generally have to pay for what you get and the good tires aren't cheap... although the FBR/FBF's didn't break the bank either...

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

What a bummer... It does appear Maxxis stopped making those. I have a set of FBF/FBR on my bike now and I love them. I'll be needing to do a lot of searching to find a decent replacement when the time comes.

I ride mostly on dirt, but need to take the streets to get there. There's been times on the street downhill stretch where I've caught up to a fancy pizza-cutter wheeled road bike just coasting. I have to assume from that, the rolling resistance of the tires is not much more than the little pizza cutter tires running 120psi or at least negligible compared to wind resistance and other losses.

Yeah, it is. Oh well. I might try FBF's on both front and back if it comes to it.

I bought a replacement set a year or so ago I haven't used yet and have around 3000mi on this set. They're good for now and I might push them to 4Kmi since they don't look like they're bringing them back anytime soon...