26in Wheel Drum Brake Options?

[LI-ghtcycle]

I have had a thought about using a drum brake front wheel and my reasons are two fold.

1) I want a better brake than a rim brake

2) I want to avoid disc brakes if possible as I understand that drum brakes have great stopping power at slower speeds, and the pads last much longer than disc pads

Also, I'm hoping this might also give me the option of a hub with out quick release axles. For strength and simplicity, I would really rather not have QR skewers, I will be using this on my cargo/touring bike that really isn't going to be lightweight to begin with, so strength is always a bigger concern than weight savings.

I wonder how long a set of shoes last on a drum brake that will rarely see speeds over 25 MPH, the main thing will be heavier weight than the average bike, but if the shoes last 1,000's of miles, even if I pay a premium for the hub, it might be worth it.

Thoughts?

 

[Ykick]

I rode a Japanese market bike with rear drum and it was a good brake. Wouldn't go so far as to say it was better than a good disc or Hydro Rim but it never gave me any trouble over 2500 miles use.

I think Worksman bicycles might be one source in USA?

 

[jimw1960]

Sturmey-Archer makes a decent one. Not that expensive either. A friend of mine has one, but only for the last few months, so I can't say how long they last. I can say that they work pretty well, though.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/HU407B10-Sturmey+Archer+X-Fd+Front+Drum+Brake+Hub.aspx

 

[jimw1960]

For extra stopping power you can get the 90mm version.
http://www.bikeman.com/HU2223.html

Sturmey also makes a steel version if you need extra strength and don't mind the few extra ounces of weight.

 

[neptronix]

Those are cool hubs.

But tell me, why do you want to avoid disc brakes?
A big front disc has fantastic stopping power.

Is it because discs don't last too long?

 

[docnjoj]

Greenspeed still uses front drum brakes on a lot of their trikes. I rode one a while back and the brakes seemed fine, but I don't know how long they last. I have BB7's on my front wheels and they stop very well, but the pads do wear fairly quickly. Of course me and the trike weigh about 310 lbs (or about 141 kilos for you non-Americans)
otherDoc

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I'm looking at longevity, and it would seem that disc pads don't last half as long as drum brake shoes. If I can get comparable stopping power to an average disc brake set-up, I'm wanting the drum.

Thanks for the information all!

I'm going to talk with some cargo bike shops too, and see what they have to say, but it looks like that 90MM SA hub will be the way to go! I know that a drum brake will never have the bite of a disc brake, but for the front wheel especially and for a cargo bike, it might make a lot more sense to use a drum brake both for longevity, lack of maintenance and axle strength/simplicity.

Fortunately it looks like all the drum brake hubs have solid bolt-on axles, yeah! no QR!

I have just been searching for a way to get a solid axle hub to begin with, so this is great!

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Whoo Hoo! I just got off the phone with Clever Cycles, and they recommend a Shimano Nexus Hub model 1M-80 and the longevity of the brake shoes is measured in 10's of thousands of miles!

However, I am seeing mixed reviews as to the stopping power of these "roller" drum brakes, anyone used them?

 

[dumbass]

This may sound stupid but I am going to through out my thought anyway. While my rim brakes seam to work well I would really like to have better braking for higher speed riding. I have never used disc braking but for some reason I was avoiding them. I was actually wondering if I could reinvent thr wheel and add a second rim brake to each wheel. Imagin 2 independent sets of rim brakes on a single wheel. I thought they could be activated by one of those brake handles that have 2 cable pulls on it.

I was then reading a review of one of these dual brake pulls and the poster indicated he used it to activate a front drum brake and a rear hub brake. Yeah, all with one brake handle. So now I am wondering....why not have a drum or disc brake on each wheel plus a hub brake. Bet if it doesn't loke your wheel it would stop you at any speed.

Am I overkilling a problem? Yeah, I know ....another dumbass idea!! But I bet it would work. :lol:

Bob

 

[Drunkskunk]

Forget roller brakes. Infact, run away from them. far, far away. They are designed to not let you be able to lock them up. The have something called a power modulator. basicly a torque sensor that releases the brake if you are braking too hard. They are technicly illegal in Texas because any bike brake fitted must be able to skid the wheel. If you ever ride one, you'll know how bad they are. Pucker factor of 4.

Real drum brakes are fine. they are heavy handed, and feel wooden in opperation, but the last for ever and aren't suseptable to most of the problems other brakes suffer. Motorcycles used them well into the 80s. the set on my Peugeot have 30000 miles on them, are smaller than the ones on my bicycle, and aren't in need of replacing any time soon.


Double rim brake would make the pads last longer, but wouldn't help with the dozens of other problems with rim brakes. and the problem odf over heating the rim and pad would be compounded.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

This may sound stupid but I am going to through out my thought anyway. While my rim brakes seam to work well I would really like to have better braking for higher speed riding. I have never used disc braking but for some reason I was avoiding them. I was actually wondering if I could reinvent thr wheel and add a second rim brake to each wheel. Imagin 2 independent sets of rim brakes on a single wheel. I thought they could be activated by one of those brake handles that have 2 cable pulls on it.

I was then reading a review of one of these dual brake pulls and the poster indicated he used it to activate a front drum brake and a rear hub brake. Yeah, all with one brake handle. So now I am wondering....why not have a drum or disc brake on each wheel plus a hub brake. Bet if it doesn't loke your wheel it would stop you at any speed.

Am I overkilling a problem? Yeah, I know ....another dumbass idea!! But I bet it would work. :lol:

Bob

There is no such thing as a bad idea, just a bad product!

I actually had a similar thought for a "parking brake" as far as having two sets of brakes on the bike, one for stopping, disc brake, and one for parking, v-brake.

I settled on having locking brake handles, and I have everything to operate the front disc brakes except the hub, but I was never happy with the lack of solid axle hubs with disc brake mounts.

Then I learned of the longevity of drum brakes, and their common use on cargo bikes, and that is why I have been looking into this.

Forget roller brakes. Infact, run away from them. far, far away. They are designed to not let you be able to lock them up. The have something called a power modulator. basicly a torque sensor that releases the brake if you are braking too hard. They are technicly illegal in Texas because any bike brake fitted must be able to skid the wheel. If you ever ride one, you'll know how bad they are. Pucker factor of 4.

Real drum brakes are fine. they are heavy handed, and feel wooden in opperation, but the last for ever and aren't suseptable to most of the problems other brakes suffer. Motorcycles used them well into the 80s. the set on my Peugeot have 30000 miles on them, are smaller than the ones on my bicycle, and aren't in need of replacing any time soon.


Double rim brake would make the pads last longer, but wouldn't help with the dozens of other problems with rim brakes. and the problem odf over heating the rim and pad would be compounded.

Thanks for the info DS, I thought as much from several reviews and a recommendation against them by Sheldon Brown on a front wheel.

Looks like I will most likely go with a 90 MM S/A front drum brake hub.

 

[Hillhater]

Li-ghtcycle,
i thought you wanted to use re-gen as much as possible anyway ?
Personally, my philosophy is to keep things as simple as possible. More complexity means more possibility of failure and more problems fixing or replacing it when it fails. I dont want anything i cannot fix with basic tools, or is expensive /complex to repair. Hence, hydraulics and/or drum brakes dont make my radar . !

Besides, i see plenty of kids and those "fixie" riders, with NO BRAKES at all ! :lol: :lol:

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Li-ghtcycle,
i thought you wanted to use re-gen as much as possible anyway ?
Personally, my philosophy is to keep things as simple as possible. More complexity means more possibility of failure and more problems fixing or replacing it when it fails. I dont want anything i cannot fix with basic tools, or is expensive /complex to repair. Hence, hydraulics and/or drum brakes dont make my radar . !

Besides, i see plenty of kids and those "fixie" riders, with NO BRAKES at all ! :lol: :lol:

Yeah, I bet this guy doesn't have any trouble stopping!

[youtube]V3nMnr8ZirI[/youtube]

To me, I am accomplishing the very thing you a describing, since the brake shoes from these drums last 5,000 - 10,000 miles, and won't require adjusting as often or replacing pads like rim & disc brakes, not to mention they are highly recommended in bad weather since they are sealed against the elements. :wink:

 

[Hillhater]

.. :lol: just make sure you get a weatherproof whistle ! :lol:

 

[johnrobholmes]

I just laced up that 90mm SA dynamo hub for a customer, and it was a very nice unit! I would recommend it just based on my touchy feely experience. I haven't ridden one however.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

.. :lol: just make sure you get a weatherproof whistle ! :lol:

Or ear-covers to prevent unfortunate accidents! :lol: :lol:

 

[Evoforce]

I noticed a lot of the gassers are using hub brakes. You might want to post a question at Motorbicycling.com. Have entertained the idea myself!

 

[blueb0ttle2]

I am running a 70mm Sturmey Archer drum on my ezip, and some other guy here is running one in a bike that he regularly takes up to 25mph. I'm quite happy with it, but you have to be careful when you put it together, make sure the cable is tight. If it isn't, it will pop off and give you an interesting day...
I now have a dutch bike with drums in the front and back, and it appears to be quite good. They feel different, but will stop you in good time.
The main advantage, of course, is that they are immune to rain. It's hard enough to avoid hydroplaning, why risk getting water on the braking surface with rim brakes?
As for longevity, they are indeed designed to work for 1,000's of miles.

 

[blueb0ttle2]

I'm not sure if the Sturmey is suitable above 20MPH, come to think of it. Where is that chap that ran them at 25?

 

[rebelpilot]

Thanks for posting the vid LI-ghtcycle, I had a good laugh.
I am seriously considering mounting a 90mm drum brake on the front of my full suspension ebike.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I'm not sure if the Sturmey is suitable above 20MPH, come to think of it. Where is that chap that ran them at 25?

Yeah, that is why I am going to go with teh 90 MM, but I have another question, what type of brake levers will I need? Will normal long pull MTB style work?

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Thanks for posting the vid LI-ghtcycle, I had a good laugh.
I am seriously considering mounting a 90mm drum brake on the front of my full suspension ebike.

He he ya, it's really true though, not too many of those guys around, but they do exist, I ran into one once down-town doing his sideways skid-stop, I wasn't expecting that, almost ran into his stupid self!

It was kinda funny because most of the time he just ignored stop lights, so I'm not sure why he bothered stopping on the next light, and I mean he went right into traffic, he AND a guy on a skateboard!?

I kid you not, they actually have signs posted in downtown Portland saying "Skate Route"!! :lol:

If you really want to see he crazy zany side of Portland, Portlandia really captures it! Don't get me wrong, Portland is one of the best cities you will ever visit in a lot of ways, very friendly, clean and not too crowded as cities go, but the "Hipster" community is very well portrayed.

That is one of the funniest skits on the show, some of the humor of the show is really odd and much like watching a Woody Allen movie, but that IS Portland to a "tee"!! I have actually remember going to college and being around people like some of the characters portrayed! :lol: :lol:

You should see the skit about "It's always the 90's in Portland" too! Hilarious!!

 

[blueb0ttle2]

Yeah, that is why I am going to go with teh 90 MM, but I have another question, what type of brake levers will I need? Will normal long pull MTB style work?

I've just been using the brake handles that came with the ezip, which are aluminum and designed for V-brakes. I'm thinking of replacing them with steel ones eventually. I would ask someone who has a bike that came with drums to show you what he's running (good luck finding one!)
My dutch bike uses rod brakes, so I can't help you there.

 

[blueb0ttle2]

LOL! What an awesome clip. I live in a University town that has a miniature version of the hipster culture. That captures it to a tee. I'm sad that that's the stereotype people have about cyclists, though. It just makes the soccer mom's in SUV's hate the rest of us more.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Yeah, that is why I am going to go with teh 90 MM, but I have another question, what type of brake levers will I need? Will normal long pull MTB style work?

I've just been using the brake handles that came with the ezip, which are aluminum and designed for V-brakes. I'm thinking of replacing them with steel ones eventually. I would ask someone who has a bike that came with drums to show you what he's running (good luck finding one!)
My dutch bike uses rod brakes, so I can't help you there.

Good to know, thanks for the info!

As for the performance of the SA drums, here is a link where the 70MM is discussed with good reviews, I am going for the 90 MM mainly because I will have a very heavy cargo/touring bike, and I want to avoid brake fade on long hills, and have the longest intervals as possible required for maintenance.

***EDIT***

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23243&p=348220&hilit=sturmey+70mm#p338258